.18u P4 run 10c cooler than .13u P4...what gives..?

[fkloster]

Just curious...my old socket 423 .18u P4 (non nwood) 1.8 @ 2.1 ran about 38-42c under load w/1.85volts (care of Asus probe) and now my new socket 478 .13u P4 (nwood) 1.8 @ 2.4 runs about 52c+ under load w/1.65volts (care of Asus probe)....any ideas...should I even care?

Comparisons are...:

1) socket 423 .18u P4 (256k cache) 1.8 @ 2.1 ran about 38c-42c under load (29c idle) w/1.85volts (care of Asus probe)

2) socket 478 .13u P4 (512k cache) 1.8 @ 2.4 ran about 52c-55c under load (48c idle) w/1.65volts (care of Asus probe)

 

[Jumpem]

Fkloster, AsusProbe doesn't report the right temps with the P4T-E and some of their other boards also. It shows ~20C higher than both the bios and MBM for me. Head over to the Asus Boards forums for alot of info on your setup. Try the Intel Overclocking forum especially.

 

[Mavrick007]

Notice that you're overclocking the chips too. No matter what, there's going to be more heat coming from it. The Northwood is even o'clocked higher so it's going to make more heat. If you want to compare them, be a bit more systematic and use both at stock for one thing and I wouldn't trust Asus probe either.

 

[ElFenix]

its also harder to get rid of heat from the smaller core of the northwood.

 

[Idontcare]

If memory serves me correctly this was an issue with Intel's 130 nm technology node first observed and discussed with respect to 130 nm Tualatins. It was noticed by someone (my memory is vague on details, sorry) that the specs for the mobile PIII had higher current leakage (leading to excess heat generation) when the transistors were in the off state when made with Intel's 130 nm process versus a mobile PIII made with Intel's 180 nm process.

Basically, this meant that the newer processors produced more heat than the older processors when completely idle but when fully used (100% cpu utilization) the newer processors produced less heat than their older process counterparts. That was the crux of discussion as my memory vagually remembers from last summer/fall.

The other reason why one could/should/would expect a 2.4 GHz Northwood to produce more heat than a 2.1 GHz Willamette is (1) frequency offset of 300 MHz means more heat from the Northwood and (2) the extra 256 KB of 2.4GHz L2 cache is going to be dumping a lot of heat (i.e. more transistors in Northwood).

Considering how much of a fight AMD is having with their AthlonXPs and heat I would not be suprised if a secondary (to cost) reason for not increasing L2 cache size in the TBreds is to sidestep the frequency-limiting heat generation that the extra cache would bring about. That is pure speculation though (hell, it all is when it comes down to it )

- Phil

 

[fkloster]

Ok found out temps were not accurate....actually getting 27c idle and 32c load.

 

[John]

<< Ok found out temps were not accurate....actually getting 27c idle and 32c load. >>



The temps above indicate a very cold room, what's the temp in your office?

 

[fkloster]

John, these temps are in my 68 degree den @ my house...motherboard temp around 1 degree cooler than cpu .....john if you could see this paper weight I got on this chip you would understand....29c seems right to me. Think about it...:

1) If a .18 p4 1.8 would run under load @ 34 c. then a .13 P4 1.8 @ idle should'nt be @ 50c with better cooling lol...

 

[EdipisReks]

are you using a vapochill?!? 50*c load is VERY normal for a northwood (as i have found out, much to my chagrin). there is no way that you are getting 32*c load temps with standard air cooling, even with a swifty or an alpha (hell, even with an 80 cfm delta i would find 32*c to be hard to believe, maybe 36-38, but 32*c is COLD)! there are some water cooled northwood systems at the hardforum that aren't doing that well! when you say load temps, are you talking prime95 plus 3dmark2001 type of load temps? at 2.4 gHz with 1.6 volts my system is hitting 52*c with an AVC sunflower in a well ventilated case.

are you using motherboard monitor 5 to get your temps? if you are, double check to make sure that the correct diode is being used. 28-32 is my standard case temp deviation going from CPU at idle to CPU at load, which makes me think that the case temp is being mistaken for the cpu temp. if you are in fact using some 10 inch long by 5 inch wide heat pipe server heatsink with a 240 CFM delta 120 mm fan then forgive me for not believing the temps .

--jacob

 

[fkloster]

Ok here are my ingredients...:

1) P4 1.8a
2) Asus P4T-E
3) Swiftech MCX-478 cooler with 80cfm 80mm Delta blowin'
4) AS3
5) Asus bios temp readings......@ 68 degree room temperature am getting 28-29c' idle temp reading....bios revision 1005

 

[EdipisReks]

as i said, even with the swifty and 80 cfm delta, 32*c load sounds too cool by 4-6*c. hey, maybe you just got a lucky chip. there are 2 core revisions of the northwood, one of which puts out about 8 more watts of heat than the other. imho, however, the 80 cfm fan defeats the purpose of having the pentium IV, but whatever floats your boat, man.

--jacob

 

[fkloster]

jacob, one other thing to consider....isn't 29c like 84 degrees f +/-?? Thats is the same temp my old P4 1.8 (.18) socket 423 stayed @ idle and it makes good sense to me this chip should not be 50c!!

 

[EdipisReks]

well, i'm just saying that i've seen lots of temps here and at the hardforum, and i have NEVER seen temps like that even with a great cooler like the swifty.

--jacob

 

[fkloster]

....and with that....Let the polling begin I have been wrong many times....

 

[Texmaster]

<< ....and with that....Let the polling begin I have been wrong many times.... >>



I had this discussion with you before remember?

I never did get an accurate reading from that board, only from my digital doc. But thats just my comp.

 

[EdipisReks]

<< ....and with that....Let the polling begin I have been wrong many times.... >>



i hope you're not wrong, because then i can go "neener neener neener, someone at AT got 32* load with air, neener neener neener" to all the vapochill guys at the [ H ]ard

--jacob

 

[Texmaster]

<<

<< ....and with that....Let the polling begin I have been wrong many times.... >>



i hope you're not wrong, because then i can go "neener neener neener, someone at AT got 32* load with air, neener neener neener" to all the vapochill guys at the [ H ]ard

--jacob >>



I am lord of all Air Cooling and that temp is impossible if its in F.

The best I can get is 2 C over room temp full load.

 

[fkloster]

32 CELCIUS under load... thats like almost 90 degrees farhenheit (sp)

 

[gunf1ghter]

The problem with the onboard measurements is that there is all sorts of margin for error in the way the board interprits the thermister on the chip.

The only way to really know what your CPU is doing temp wise would be to mount a thermal probe on the die.

 

[dcbnet]

Hey guys, Fkloster, im getting the same problem with my p4! I'm using an Epox 4SDA+ with a 1.8GHZ northwood, and it says like 43C after i boot at STARTING temp even when its been off.. then goes to like 47/48C and slightly higher sometimes 50-52.. do you think this is a bad temp reading on the motherboard or is it the chip?

I've taken the heatsink on and off, cleaned it several times, applied arctic silver.. taken it off and tried thermal grease instead.. but still I always get these kind of relatively high temps.. can anyone help please.. is it my motherboard reading it false or what? Cause i'd like to overclock my chip to 2.0 or 2.2 but the temp is putting me off.. I'm using the retail heatsink and fan (the fans only 3200RPM but i'm getting a TT fan on monday, and i still dont understand why i get such a high reading after booting up)

fkloster if you have MSN, then please could you add me as i'd like to ask you a few questions My MSN is dcbattlenet@hotmail.com , thanks

EdipisReks also if you could help it would be appreciated, thanks

 

[EdipisReks]

i think that those are pretty normal temps, around what most people with standard cooling are getting. there are actually 2 different cores of northwoods. one puts out about 8 more watts of heat than the other. i have the hotter one, and you probably do too. most review sites got the cooler chips. i don't know why there are 2 different types, but you can dig up the while papers on them at intel's website if you search for long enoug.

my temps with both the retail heatsink and the AVC sunflower are about 40 idle 54 load at 2.4 gHz 1.65 volts. the speed and voltage really don't seem to affect my temps that much, as my idle and load only go down about 2-3 degrees when i run stock speeds. one way to try to remove error from the readings is to make sure you are using mother board monitor5 (make sure you use windbond2 diode2 in MBM5) to take cpu measurements. your temps and mine are nothing to worry about, but i am getting an alpha pal8942 on monday. i'll update this thread when i get the new HSF. if my temps are still about the same with the alpha, then we'll know that something is wrong with the EPoX boards internal diode measurements (i'm using an EP-4BDA). i'm getting a YS tech adjustable fan, and i'll take temps at different CFM ratings.

--jacob

 

[dcbnet]

EdipisReks, thanks alot dude!
So you think if i notch it up gradually i should be ok?

i was thinking that maybe the temp on a P4 northwood wouldnt increase much when overclocked as compared to its standard temps, i'm getting a thermal (or thermo) take fan on monday so i hope this may take a few degrees off ready for when i overclock

PS was your stock fan running at 3100/3200 RPM? mine was.. i thought this was pretty slow,. but then again its silent

 

[EdipisReks]

you should be fine just inching the speed up. remember, the p4 has thermal protection, so you aren't going to burn it up. i thought that the stock heatsinks fan was closer to 2400 RPM. it's a good unit, and very quiet. which TT heatsink are you getting? i almost got the volcano 7+, but i got a good deal on the Alpha.

--jacob

 

[dcbnet]

Nope, not a volcano7, i didnt get a volcanoe cause i heard somewhere that it performed bad even tho its meant to own..
its a P4 model only, forgot the name, its like orange/blue with the plastic connecter built into it

 

[dcbnet]

ok edipis, i'm gonna try notching it up now, what kind of voltage should i put it at when its at 2ghz? (remember mines a 1.8a)
also, do you have MSN?

hmm,. just notched it straight to 2ghz lol, impatient me.. its at 47/49C idle! i hope it would be ok under load..only a few minor programs running.. if not i;ll wait till my new fan comes
is there anyone getting higher than this for IDLE temps??