17 year old girl fights to stop lifesaving treatment

[Dulanic]

It looks like the parents are filling her head /w these thoughts. This is a very tough case. I feel that the daughter would have made a different decision. I feel that her parents are pushing their ignorant belief on her.

Is Chemo a poison? Yes. This is why it works. It is a horrible thing to go through. If this was a case of a 25% change to live or a 50% chance to live, I believe this wouldn't had made the news at all.

 

[PokerGuy]

It looks like the parents are filling her head /w these thoughts. This is a very tough case. I feel that the daughter would have made a different decision. I feel that her parents are pushing their ignorant belief on her.

Is Chemo a poison? Yes. This is why it works. It is a horrible thing to go through. If this was a case of a 25% change to live or a 50% chance to live, I believe this wouldn't had made the news at all.

No matter who is "filing her head" with thoughts, ultimately I think it should be her decision to make. The tricky part is that she is technically a minor. IMO, for medical decisions, the age where someone is considered an adult should be tied to the age of consent. If you are old enough to make decisions about your body that can have lifelong consequences, then you are old enough to make decisions about what medical treatments you want or don't want.

The other reason I favor not forcing anyone to undergo a treatment they don't want, is that there's no guarantee that it will work. Everyone assumes it because that's what the odds are, but it's not a given. What if she's forced to undergo a very unpleasant regimen of treatments, and then ends up dying from the disease anyway? At that point you've not only taken away their choice over their body and their treatment, you've also potentially ruined a good portion of her remaining life. That's not a choice I feel comfortable making for someone else.

That said, I hope someone is able to talk some sense into her and convince her that getting the treatment is the right choice.

 

[smackababy]

I tend to follow the creed of Drago: "If she dies, she dies."

Let her refuse treatment, die, and then idiots who would try this see what happens when you refuse a treatment known to cure your disease: you die and nobody cares.

 

[Rebel_L]

The article is very brief and lacking a little detail into what exactly the girls position is. Saying its poison and I don't want it seems a little silly when you consider that everything in too large a quantity is poison to the body, even drinking too much water can kill you.

As for what should be done I would tend to look at this more like the case of a suicide attempt, we patch them up against their will as far as I know because we deem to be mentally unfit to make that choice. The right to refuse treatment for me is something I would consider appropriate for terminal patients who no longer want to fight for an extra few months/days or people whos belief system contradicts certain type of treatment options (although those make me sad I don't believe them to mentally unfit). I do however believe that if anyone forces treatment on here she should also be seeing someone for her mental health at the same time as forcing the treatment against her will is certainly likely to do some damage in that area.

 

[fskimospy]

I tend to follow the creed of Drago: "If she dies, she dies."

Let her refuse treatment, die, and then idiots who would try this see what happens when you refuse a treatment known to cure your disease: you die and nobody cares.

She's 17. People are idiots when they are 17.

 

[Exophase]

In my opinion, teenagers, especially those 16 and over should be able to petition for the rights of adulthood under extenuating circumstances. And they should be granted it if they're evaluated to demonstrate reasoning that's comparable to an adult level. That doesn't mean they'll be making the most rational decision, because a lot of adults will not.

There isn't a clear line transitioning from childhood to adulthood, and while the brain is still developing at 17 that will generally be the case clear into a person's early 20s. If we're going to have a legal system that allows teenagers to be held to the accountability of adults (by being tried as such) I think the least we can do is allow the opposite.

And while it does seem outrageous to reject this treatment, I can sympathize with it given how bad the experience will be. Maybe she just doesn't value her life enough to go through with that, which would be unfortunate, but a decision I think she should be able to make.

 

[stormkroe]

Ugh... I hate to see someone chose to die over such a huge logic fail.
You know what else is poison? EVERYTHING. It's simply a matter of quantities. Hate that the state is forcing it, but if the laws say her parents make the decisions until she's 18, then that's the law. If the law seems unfair, follow the other laws in place to change it.

 

[stormkroe]

She's 17. People are idiots when they are 17.

Also this, QFT.

 

[michal1980]

It looks like the parents are filling her head /w these thoughts. This is a very tough case. I feel that the daughter would have made a different decision. I feel that her parents are pushing their ignorant belief on her.

Is Chemo a poison? Yes. This is why it works. It is a horrible thing to go through. If this was a case of a 25% change to live or a 50% chance to live, I believe this wouldn't had made the news at all.

antibiotics are a poison too. They kill stuff.

 

[smackababy]

She's 17. People are idiots when they are 17.

I'm for setting the precedent that, regardless of age, extremely stupid decisions have consequences.

 

[sphenodont]

She's 17. People are idiots when they are 17.

Exactly.

And you can't argue that she's coming from a position where she is making an informed decision given that her mother has been avoiding doctor's appointments and testing and doling out such wisdom as "My daughter is not going to die. This is about 'This is my body, my choice, let me decide'."

Her mother clearly doesn't believe anything is wrong with her daughter, thinks the doctors just want to pump her full of "poison", and has convinced her daughter of this.

 

[sphenodont]

I'm for setting the precedent that, regardless of age, extremely stupid decisions have consequences.

And in this case, the extremely stupid decision to withhold treatment (and neglect the care of her child) has lead to the state taking custody of the daughter.

 

[mcveigh]

Is this a double standard?
"Hands off my Body! I want an abortion!"
"Hands off my body! I don't want chemo!"

which is right?

 

[Atomic Playboy]

antibiotics are a poison too. They kill stuff.

So is oxygen. Prior to the great oxygenation event ~2.3 billion years ago, there was virtually no oxygen in Earth's atmosphere and all organisms were anaerobic. When cyanobacteria started releasing oxygen as a byproduct of photosynthesis, it acted as a poison that caused the first mass extinction in the history of the planet. Meanwhile, scientists have pegged the total number of extinctions caused by chemotherapy at zero. So, yeah, poison...

I mean, pretty much anything is going to be poisonous to something somewhere. You have to consider both the positive and negative effects. Chemotherapy will fuck up your body, no doubt... but it will kill the cancer that would otherwise kill you. An 80% chance of survival versus a 0% chance of survival, and you're citing "but it's POISON" as your defense? That's a child that hasn't been taught critical thinking or analysis skills.

 

[Kadarin]

Is this a double standard?
"Hands off my Body! I want an abortion!"
"Hands off my body! I don't want chemo!"

which is right?

Both are right.

 

[smackababy]

Exactly.

And you can't argue that she's coming from a position where she is making an informed decision given that her mother has been avoiding doctor's appointments and testing and doling out such wisdom as "My daughter is not going to die. This is about 'This is my body, my choice, let me decide'."

Her mother clearly doesn't believe anything is wrong with her daughter, thinks the doctors just want to pump her full of "poison", and has convinced her daughter of this.

And, is this daughter going to think much differently? When she has a child, if she lives that long, will she claim "mercury is poison! No vaccines for my kids!" as well?

We need to start letting these stupid people kill themselves off. Don't worry, the reproduce at a rate that will allow them to not become extinct (unfortunately).

 

[BurnItDwn]

She is stupid and does not understand what she is saying. She is uneducated and ignorant. This is probably a problem of her upbringing. We should find out who fed her that garbage misinformation, and hold them accountable.

I think 17 is too young to sentence somebody to death, so, she should get treatment even if it is against her will, since it is a life and death situation. Maybe when she grows up she will learn some things and could be a great scientist in the future!

 

[Atomic Playboy]

And, is this daughter going to think much differently? When she has a child, if she lives that long, will she claim "mercury is poison! No vaccines for my kids!" as well?

We need to start letting these stupid people kill themselves off. Don't worry, the reproduce at a rate that will allow them to not become extinct (unfortunately).

We do spend a lot of energy trying to save stupid people from themselves, but this is a young girl who's been brainwashed by a simpleton to ignore reality; it seems cruel to let her die because she was never given a chance to learn reason.

And, honestly, if we made stupidity fatal, there'd be like 7 people left in the country. Everybody is a moron from time to time.

 

[fskimospy]

Is this a double standard?
"Hands off my Body! I want an abortion!"
"Hands off my body! I don't want chemo!"

which is right?

Actually the argument here is about the parents/state's ability to compel lifesaving treatment on a minor.

If a minor became pregnant in a way that would surely cause her death without treatment I would also support the state performing an abortion.

The general sentiment here is that people obtain full agency over their bodies when they are no longer a minor. It's sort of like how parents aren't jailed for false imprisonment when they ground their kid. Minors don't have all the rights adults do.

 

[zinfamous]

Sucks but I tend to default to a your body, your rules attitude. Given that her brain isn't developed enough to fully understand the consequences of her actions does make this a difficult situation, but what is the alternative? Force her to accept treatment and maybe she grows into a healthy adult, maybe she grows into a mental case that blames everything that goes wrong in her life on the "poison" she was forced to take.

I tend to agree and was my first thought when this story was first being reported this morning (What I was hearing, anyway)

...Then I heard the mother commenting: "Why should my daughter have this poison in her body? This isn't about death, my daughter is not going to die!"

So, this really isn't about the daughter choosing, to be honest. Yes, she could agree with her mother and be saying the same shit, but she's swallowed her mother's nonsense and really doesn't know any better.


As horrible as it is to imagine, this girl is better off under state control for the time-being. Mom is probably feeding her juiced carrots and kale, telling her that she can chant the cancer out of her body.

 

[Jaskalas]

...Then I heard the mother commenting: "Why should my daughter have this poison in her body? This isn't about death, my daughter is not going to die!"

...

 

[Darwin333]

There is no right answer.

That said she is a minor and therefore my belief is that until she is otherwise this should be handled in that light. If she remains willfully ignorant later in life that then would be her sorry right.

So what do you do, have the police come in and grab this 17 year old girl, force her into the hospital, forcibly hold her down and give her treatment?

I'm not actually disagreeing with what you said, she is a minor and as such her parents responsibility. She could always sue for emancipation, I wonder if that would put a hold on the treatments and buy her time to turn 18?

 

[Hugo Drax]

It looks like the parents are filling her head /w these thoughts. This is a very tough case. I feel that the daughter would have made a different decision. I feel that her parents are pushing their ignorant belief on her.

Is Chemo a poison? Yes. This is why it works. It is a horrible thing to go through. If this was a case of a 25% change to live or a 50% chance to live, I believe this wouldn't had made the news at all.

I agree, I think this 17 year old girl has been brainwashed by her parents. I seriously think this poor girl is being led the wrong path. I am going to have to agree that she should be separated from her parents and treatment provided.

But they need to send her to a therapist and try to work with her.

 

[f1sherman]

...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQZ3-OD0ml0

 

[PokerGuy]

In this case, it looks like the treatment success rate is around 80%. Just a thought exercise, what if a treatment works 60% of the time? What about if it works 40% of the time? What about if it works 20% of the time? What about 5% of the time? What about if it has potential nasty side affects? Is there a threshold as to when the state can or should step in a force a certain medical treatment or procedure?