17,000,000 College-Educated Americans Are Wasting Their Degree On Menial Jobs

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
No, the problem is handing out federal aid to anyone who wants to go to college. We should hand aid out to the top 10%, regardless of wealth. Then, stop right there.

So long as by 'top 10%' you're talking about ability, and not something else. And no, not grades as they're currently given because grades don't reflect ability any more. Advanced degrees are for people with ability, not people who show up every day to kiss ass.
 
Dec 10, 2005
25,022
8,298
136
Education isn't supposed to get you a job, it's supposed to educate you. Jobs are a separate issue. Only an absolute moron would spend 100k on their education. You'll learn the EXACT same things for 20k that you learn for 100k. Facts aren't somehow more factual just because the pompous ass presenting them to you gets a bigger paycheck.

That's true, but going to a top tier school can open doors for future careers that going to a lesser school doesn't or provide opportunities that a lesser school cannot provide.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
That's true, but going to a top tier school can open doors for future careers that going to a lesser school doesn't or provide opportunities that a lesser school cannot provide.

Only a VERY limited scope of fields are about the type of networking you're talking about. Lawyer, executive at a major firm, doctor at one of the BIG schools or hospitals, etc. Probably .01% of all jobs are going to actually require the Ivy bullshit (and it IS complete bullshit, being entirely about who you know and your social class and not what you know or what you can do).

Take anything else (teaching for example) and there are roughly enough positions to support every person, regardless of where they got their degree (especially after you account for losses and attrition). The point of these positions isn't where you learned or who you know, but WHAT you know (and unfortunately how you're willing to present it).
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Hey Cad. Speaking of which, have you and your group looked for qualified Controls Engineers lately? Those that I've talked to (including my previous employer) are having a terrible time finding qualified, experience candidates. My current employer stated that he had over 250 resumes the last time he advertised and found zero qualified. He then put out the job by word of mouth among industrial sales people and word got back to me. The employer before that one had over 500 resumes and only 2 qualified candidates (myself included).

Since I'm seeing a large spike in job listings for Controls / Automation Engineers, I assume fewer and fewer people are going into this field, especially with degrees (I'm not saying that a degree makes a better Controls Engineer, I'm saying that more and more employers want the 4 year degree + experience).

Yeah, we're still "hiring". Not as actively as before but we do have a couple spots to fill if the right candidate pops up. However - yes, finding quality candidates is tough. We have a situation right now where we hired the wrong guy - don't know how that's going to shake out but it's tough when people can talk a good game but absolutely can't produce.

Yeah not alot go into this field as it's scope is broad but skills narrow. We have to be able to do just about anything from wiring and fabrication to heads down code banging. Not many fit that mold and schools just don't and can't teach what we do.
We use a 4 year degree screening too but actually do look at applicants that don't since they have the motivation to apply even knowing they don't have the piece of paper.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
Its called academic inflation. I pulled myself out of that crap LONG ago. Now when I need the skill set the entire world harped on me to get, telling me I NEEDED it, I can hire it for 32k a year. hahahah. Life is funny.

How old are you?

Theres a big gap between older workers and young workers. That big gap is, there was a time a degree didn't matter. For young people today, it matters unless they are well connected or extremely talented. The bulk of people are not. I'd bet most of those 17million are under 30.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
So long as by 'top 10%' you're talking about ability, and not something else. And no, not grades as they're currently given because grades don't reflect ability any more. Advanced degrees are for people with ability, not people who show up every day to kiss ass.

You do it by both grades and ability. You don't punish someone who worked hard for his grades by rejecting him just because some psychologist determined that the lazy ass who watched tv all weekend(and failed his exams) has a higher IQ. That's what the American Dream is all about. If you work hard and play by the rules, you can live a quality life. Liberals like to throw a curveball at you by mandating that people who don't work hard and play by the rules deserve the same things too.
 
Last edited:

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
2
81
Only a VERY limited scope of fields are about the type of networking you're talking about. Lawyer, executive at a major firm, doctor at one of the BIG schools or hospitals, etc. Probably .01% of all jobs are going to actually require the Ivy bullshit (and it IS complete bullshit, being entirely about who you know and your social class and not what you know or what you can do).

Take anything else (teaching for example)
and there are roughly enough positions to support every person, regardless of where they got their degree (especially after you account for losses and attrition). The point of these positions isn't where you learned or who you know, but WHAT you know (and unfortunately how you're willing to present it).
Um no. Teaching has been unionized since forever. It is based on tenure and seniority. If you are a new graduate, good luck getting a teaching job.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
Um no. Teaching has been unionized since forever. It is based on tenure and seniority. If you are a new graduate, good luck getting a teaching job.

3 new teachers, all just graduated, were hired at the elementary school across the street from my house.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
How old are you?

Theres a big gap between older workers and young workers. That big gap is, there was a time a degree didn't matter. For young people today, it matters unless they are well connected or extremely talented. The bulk of people are not. I'd bet most of those 17million are under 30.

I'm young but extremely talented so I guess I'm not the norm. That's not my problem though.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
You do it by both grades and ability. You don't punish someone who worked hard for his grades by rejecting him just because some psychologist determined that the lazy ass who watched tv all weekend(and failed his exams) has a higher IQ.

If he failed his exams, then no. But you also don't give a blank check to the average joe that scores 70s on his exams, but gets As because the teacher/school weights attendance and extra-curriculars to compensate.

For instance, I went to school with plenty of people who received straight As, but scored average at best on any test and had SATs under 1000. Conversely I (and others like me) failed nearly every class but had almost straight 100% on my tests and assignments (that I turned in), and exceptional scores on entrance and other exams. Regardless of other factors, which of the two sets is going to actually be capable of learning enough medicine not to kill people, or enough correct interpretation of law to keep someone out of prison?

Average people can do great at jobs, and shouldn't be considered 'lesser' for their lack of giftedness. However, that doesn't mean they should receive limited resources to attend institutions designed to propel the intellectually capable to world changing discoveries.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,230
701
126
They probably had connections or knew someone. That's how it works with unions.

Connections or knowing someone is how it works in almost any industry. I found both of my last two jobs by having connections and knowing people. That's just how some of the business world works and it's not only unions that use that power.
 

Dissipate

Diamond Member
Jan 17, 2004
6,815
0
0
Why don't those 17 million join the military? They could go from working a menial job to instant hero status.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Um no. Teaching has been unionized since forever. It is based on tenure and seniority. If you are a new graduate, good luck getting a teaching job.

You're an idiot. How does one get seniority and tenure unless they're first hired?

You don't get the choice positions, and often not even full-time for the first year or two, but that's it. Out of my cohort of 37 students all but 5 (myself included) landed teaching jobs out of school (a satellite campus of a state school btw, not ivy league). Every one of my friends, and their families, that pursued teaching obtained jobs within a couple years. Very few stayed more than a year or two, but they did get the jobs.
 
Last edited:

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
They probably had connections or knew someone. That's how it works with unions.

Thats how it works with everything. I just got inside a studio I've been wanting to get with for a long time and it was because of the recommendation of someone they worked with a lot. There are literally 1000's of people who want my job. Endurance, determination and hard work AFTER being given a opportunity is the only way forward. If you fall you will be trampled.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
I'm young but extremely talented so I guess I'm not the norm. That's not my problem though.

And thats my point. The bulk of people, young and old, are not extremely talented. They are merely worker bees. There was a time when worker bees just had to work and get experience. Today, the average young person has to get a degree to have a realistic chance of becoming a worker bee that has a job and makes an okay salary.

A college degree isn't worth the paper it is printed on, let alone the amount actually paid. However, it is the ticket of entry for most entry level positions of any career/professional type field.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
They probably had connections or knew someone. That's how it works with unions.

Or they had ESL cert's.

For elementary, you better have an ESL cert. For high school you better be math or science.

If you aren't any of the above. Good luck, there are only so many history/coaching positions and forget about being an art or music teacher. As for as elementary school, there are an over abundance elementary education grads.

That applies to Texas.
 
Last edited:

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
I'm young but extremely talented so I guess I'm not the norm. That's not my problem though.

Extremely talented, until it comes to knowing what things sound like. The cow goes moo. The pig goes oink. The gun goes click.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
2
76
I dunno... there are a lot of really worthless degrees out there. My ex had a bachelors in 'classical literature'

I think if you narrowed it down to degrees that had real life application you'd see that most of them had relative work.

Nope. 30% employment walking out the door Spring '10 from Georgia Tech.
My friend has $100k in loans for his EE degree and still no job, only a worthless offer for $45k-- poor guy, he believed the lies that education was the path to success. Too bad there aren't enough things to invent anymore for engineers to have jobs!

The whole motivation behind it (capitalism) is broken. Greed-- it works for a while, and a lot better than other economies, until it fails.
We have to replace it with corporations run for the sake of benefiting the employee, as opposed to benefiting the shareholders.
 
Last edited:
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Nope. 30% employment walking out the door Spring '10 from Georgia Tech.
My friend has $100k in loans for his EE degree and still no job, only a worthless offer for $45k-- poor guy, he believed the lies that education was the path to success. Too bad there aren't enough things to invent anymore for engineers to have jobs!

A starting offer puts him in the top 27% of income earners in the nation (with no experience I'm assuming) and it's worthless???

REALLY????????????????????????

What kind of entitled crybaby piece of shit is he anyway? I mean, OBVIOUSLY he's an idiot for taking out 100k in loans, but beyond that you'd expect him to have some sort of clue.