16GB (or 32GB) Optane Memory + Hard drive vs. 3D TLC SATA SSD?

[cbn]

Which form of storage do you think is better for a home desktop PC?

(Assume capacity is sufficient for each form of storage)

 

[UsandThem]

No NVMe drive option?

 

[VirtualLarry]

Hmm, would have to see some benchmarks, maybe PCMark or Sysmark or other application-level benchmark suites.
(Maybe Asus Realbench? Although that's more CPU-oriented and not storage-oriented.)

Edit: Btw, it is instructive to read the reviews of the Optane NVMe cache drives on Newegg, to see how difficult they are to set up in practice.

I feel, especially since there is an inherent 1:1 caching limitation with other non-optane drives in the system, that this sort of technology should have been built-in to "Optane Hybrid drives". But then, you would want an NVMe over PCI-E interface. Which, interestingly, "SATA Express" provides a PCI-E x2 interface (which current Optane drives use a PCI-E x2 interface), as well as several SATA. Why not introduce "Optane Hybrid Drives", which expose an Optane cache NVMe drive over the PCI-E lanes, and a standard SATA6G interface for the HDD, and then just provide the necessary UEFI and driver "glue". Done properly, you could even dual-boot Linux with it.

The more I think about it, Intel really missed a trick here.

 

[cbn]

Edit: Btw, it is instructive to read the reviews of the Optane NVMe cache drives on Newegg, to see how difficult they are to set up in practice.

Found the above video which makes the install look very easy (from a software standpoint), but it is mentioned the BIOS needs to be up to date and I did find the following comments the Newegg reviews:

Your BIOS must be configured as UEFI, CSM disabled and your OS has to be installed with a GPT/GUID format and boot record. It's all in the instructions available from Intel.

^^^ This is not mentioned in the Intel Video.

Once i got through that i could never get the Optane setup app from Intel to setup the chip correctly, even after i switched my BIOS to Optane mode (don't do this). After about 6 hours i found out how to fix it. The issue was that i had already installed the Intel Setup Optane Memory app in anticipation of the install. Here's the deal even the install itself must be done after the chip is installed. So even though I was "running" it for the first time, that's a no-go. You must install after the chip is installed. So, i uninstalled the app, then reinstalled, and during the install process, it doesn't just install the app but it gets your PC/ BIOS ready for the upgrade. Then when it automatically run the app, and finally it ran properly. So don't even install the software until you have the chip installed first -- very important.

 

[cbn]

No NVMe drive option?

I was thinking about that, but I didn't put it in the poll for two reasons:

1.) I like refurbished workstations/desktops and these (most of the time) can only use SATA SSDs. (So new budget desktop with Optane memory + HDD vs. refurbished PC + SATA SSD is one thing I am thinking about with this question)

2.) I figured PCIe 3.0 x 4 NVMe SSD would have gotten most of the votes (the current optane memory (stony beach) is only on PCIe 3.0 x2) making the poll not effective for obtaining opinion on Optane memory + HDD vs. SATA SSD.

 

[cbn]

I feel, especially since there is an inherent 1:1 caching limitation with other non-optane drives in the system, that this sort of technology should have been built-in to "Optane Hybrid drives". But then, you would want an NVMe over PCI-E interface. Which, interestingly, "SATA Express" provides a PCI-E x2 interface (which current Optane drives use a PCI-E x2 interface), as well as several SATA. Why not introduce "Optane Hybrid Drives", which expose an Optane cache NVMe drive over the PCI-E lanes, and a standard SATA6G interface for the HDD, and then just provide the necessary UEFI and driver "glue". Done properly, you could even dual-boot Linux with it.

+1.

 

[cbn]

Here is a review I found using the 32GB Optane Memory:

https://www.pcper.com/reviews/Storage/Intel-Optane-Memory-32GB-Review-Faster-Lightning

 

[dahorns]

I am running an hdd with 32gb optane. It runs great, faster than my system with an a mid level ssd. I am really impressed. Setup was easy. I would recommend, but I also got the optane at $50 as a open box item from microcenter. At that price, it is amazing.

 

[aigomorla]

NVMe is the greatest of all worlds...
Then its Pure SATA SSD, not optane cache..

Last would be a spinner with optane vs using a firecuda.

The only real reason for using optane + hdd is because u dont have the budget to get a large SSD to fit your steam / origin game collection on 1 drive....

Optane + SSD is bad.... its been proven everywhere except paid intel reviews, that it gives u no noticeable increase in performance...

 

[dahorns]

NVMe is the greatest of all worlds...
Then its Pure SATA SSD, not optane cache..

Last would be a spinner with optane vs using a firecuda.

The only real reason for using optane + hdd is because u dont have the budget to get a large SSD to fit your steam / origin game collection on 1 drive....

Optane + SSD is bad.... its been proven everywhere except paid intel reviews, that it gives u no noticeable increase in performance...

This is just false. Crazy false. Literally made up. My system is as responsive as any with an sata SSD.

 

[aigomorla]

This is just false. Crazy false. Literally made up. My system is as responsive as any with an sata SSD.

what are you claiming in my statement as being false?

 

[UsandThem]

This is just false. Crazy false. Literally made up. My system is as responsive as any with an sata SSD.

what are you claiming in my statement as being false?

I'm curious as well. A person has to be pretty darn confident in their answer to post a statement like that.

 

[dahorns]

I'm curious as well. A person has to be pretty darn confident in their answer to post a statement like that.

He said it has been proven to provide no benefit. That is false. Boot times are great. System responsiveness is great. Load times for commonly used applications are great. Some tasks dont benefit, but there is zero support for the statement that it provides no noticeable performance increase. It is a straight lie and I am happy to testify to it. My hdd + optane system feels faster than my system with a budget sata ssd. In terms of boot time, it actually beats my system with a trion 150 sata ssd.

I also note that he provided zero evidentiary support for his statement. None exists. And I am not paid by Intel. This is an honest consumer review. What is true is that paying $75 for the 32gb option is probably not a great value considering it is near the price of a small ssd for a boot drive. At $50 dollars, what i paid for it, it is a steal. I got a 2tb harddrive that feels like an SSD for less than $100. That is a win in my book.

 

[UsandThem]

He said it has been proven to provide no benefit. That is false. Boot times are great. System responsiveness is great. Load times for commonly used applications are great. Some tasks dont benefit, but there is zero support for the statement that it provides no noticeable performance increase. It is a straight lie and I am happy to testify to it. My hdd + optane system feels faster than my system with a budget sata ssd. In terms of boot time, it actually beats my system with a trion 150 sata ssd.

I also note that he provided zero evidentiary support for his statement. None exists. And I am not paid by Intel. This is an honest consumer review. What is true is that paying $75 for the 32gb option is probably not a great value considering it is near the price of a small ssd for a boot drive. At $50 dollars, what i paid for it, it is a steal. I got a 2tb harddrive that feels like an SSD for less than $100. That is a win in my book.

I guess you see something he said that I don't see. Everything he stated is accurate. It's great you are happy with your Optane memory and HDD. It's a heck of lot faster than just having a HDD. It will be faster than an entry-level SSD like the Trion 150 as well, but it won't outperform a SSD like the 850 EVO in overall performance (it wins in some areas, and falls behind it others), and certainly won't be anywhere near fast NVMe drives like the 960 EVO or Plextor M8Pe.

He stated that his first choice is a NVMe drive, then a pure SSD, and then finally Optane memory with a Firecuda. As far as offering support or evidence on what he said, I don't see where you offered any support on your statement. You can't have it both ways.

Maybe the next time you think someone "literally made up" something, you should offer your evidence instead of basically accusing them of being a liar, which is what it appears like you did in this thread.

 

[dahorns]

I guess you see something he said that I don't see. Everything he stated is accurate. It's great you are happy with your Optane memory and HDD. It's a heck of lot faster than just having a HDD. It will be faster than an entry-level SSD like the Trion 150 as well, but it won't outperform a SSD like the 850 EVO in overall performance (it wins in some areas, and falls behind it others), and certainly won't be anywhere near fast NVMe drives like the 960 EVO or Plextor M8Pe.

He stated that his first choice is a NVMe drive, then a pure SSD, and then finally Optane memory with a Firecuda. As far as offering support or evidence on what he said, I don't see where you offered any support on your statement. You can't have it both ways.

Maybe the next time you think someone "literally made up" something, you should offer your evidence instead of basically accusing them of being a liar, which is what it appears like you did in this thread.

It appears I misread his post, i saw the line as optane + hdd, not ssd. So i definitely apologize. Yeah, optane + ssd isnt going to be good and actually limits write performance of the the better ssds. No excuse on my part, just a mistake. Mea culpa.

 

[cbn]

The biggest weakness I see right now with Optane memory and Hard drive (vs. standalone SATA SSD) is the lack of Sequential Read for 4K video editing.

 

[cbn]

Yeah, optane + ssd isnt going to be good and actually limits write performance of the the better ssds.

I do hope the controller on the upcoming Carson beach Optane memory offers better write performance. IntelUser2000 in this post seems to think it will.

My guess is that Carson Beach will use a new controller that offers good read performance but middling(at least for sequential) write performance. It will nevertheless be an improvement over current Optane Memory, as the current version is way too handicapped for writes.

This will also help should would get hard drives with higher Sequential via multi-actuator, etc.

 

[cbn]

Deleted.

 

[cbn]

I am running an hdd with 32gb optane. It runs great, faster than my system with an a mid level ssd. I am really impressed. Setup was easy. I would recommend, but I also got the optane at $50 as a open box item from microcenter. At that price, it is amazing.

Unfortunately I can't find the 32GB Optane discounted (even open box), but I noticed one US seller on ebay has new and unopened 16GB Optane available for $35 shipped.

Not bad. That is $13 less than the lowest online retailer price I can find.

 

[cbn]

Optane + SSD is bad.... its been proven everywhere except paid intel reviews, that it gives u no noticeable increase in performance...

64GB Optane memory should fix this due to the higher write speed.