$153,000 bill for medical care after rattlesnake bite

[Zorba]

Something to think about pulling the medicine cost out of the total bill he paid about $9.75 PER MINUTE for his stay then given 3 weeks after receiving the bill to pay in full. Nobody in the hospital thought this was odd either.

How else can the hospitals afford to expand like crazy and turn themselves into resort style hotels. Not to mention all the bonuses for all the administrators. BMWs are expensive, you know.

 

[Slew Foot]

How else can the hospitals afford to expand like crazy and turn themselves into resort style hotels. Not to mention all the bonuses for all the administrators. BMWs are expensive, you know.

Nurses union is going on strike again because they dont like the 5% raise they were offered, and the C suite has had a cumulative 40% raise over the last 4 years( CEO went from 255k to 365k). And this is at a small rural hospital with a total annual revenue of around 40 million.

 

[OverVolt]

I thought you guys argue with me non-stop that the ACA is great and fixed everything.

 

[Homerboy]

My doctor has a Maserati.

So does your insurance agent.

 

[Darwin333]

I agree some regulation is needed, but still I can't imagine how much money goes into the research and development of such antivenoms I think the guy got a great price.

He could have went to a vet and got treated just as well with an antivenom that is just as effective for $1500.

Same thing with the scorpion anti-venom bullshit. Hospital charges you $80,000 or some shit when you can pick it up for a hundred or two in Mexico and it's just as effective but our politicians made it illegal to import drugs....


ETA: BTW, this is exactly why health insurance is so expensive.

 

[Darwin333]

Ha story is on MSNBC now. He was posing for a selfie with the snake.
8k a night room charge, 5 night stay. Medical billing advocate who is also a Doctor said most of the bill is for hospital services like the room charge, diagnostic charges not for the treatment.
No other industry is allowed to bill like the medical industry I don't know why we all tolerate it. People go ape over minor charges on their phone bill imagine if your phone bill was calculated like hospital bills. Just a list of vague charges with no realistic reasons why. Imagine getting a $12,000 phone bill because you called into a support queue and a tech had to troubleshoot something plus the network was extra busy during your YouTube usage so it costs 175 times the normal rate and nobody could tell you about those charges before you used them.

It's actually very illegal for any other industry to charge/bill like hospitals do.

 

[Turkish]

He could have went to a vet and got treated just as well with an antivenom that is just as effective for $1500.

Same thing with the scorpion anti-venom bullshit. Hospital charges you $80,000 or some shit when you can pick it up for a hundred or two in Mexico and it's just as effective but our politicians made it illegal to import drugs....


ETA: BTW, this is exactly why health insurance is so expensive.

No way you could get the antivenom treatment for a hundred or two in Mexico unless the Mexicans found a way to produce it from chili beans. My uncle was bit by a rattle snake and his treatment cost him around 35k Turkish liras, which is more or less $12k. The difference is he was treated at a state hospital so the only cost to him was the cost of the antivenom, which is imported and is not covered by the national health system.

 

[CPA]

Ha story is on MSNBC now. He was posing for a selfie with the snake.
8k a night room charge, 5 night stay. Medical billing advocate who is also a Doctor said most of the bill is for hospital services like the room charge, diagnostic charges not for the treatment.
No other industry is allowed to bill like the medical industry I don't know why we all tolerate it. People go ape over minor charges on their phone bill imagine if your phone bill was calculated like hospital bills. Just a list of vague charges with no realistic reasons why. Imagine getting a $12,000 phone bill because you called into a support queue and a tech had to troubleshoot something plus the network was extra busy during your YouTube usage so it costs 175 times the normal rate and nobody could tell you about those charges before you used them.

Phone bill is a bad example as it has all kinds of crap on it, just much smaller dollars. But, I think I get your point in any case.

 

[RampantAndroid]

"
Low production of antivenoms

Given low demand, several manufacturers have ceased production, and the price of some antivenoms has dramatically increased in the last 20 years, making treatment unaffordable for the majority of those who need it. Rising prices have further suppressed demand, to the extent that treatment has declined significantly or even disappeared in some areas. The entry into some markets of inappropriate, untested or even fake antivenom products has also undermined confidence in antivenom therapy generally. Antivenom supply failure is imminent in Africa and in some countries in Asia."


http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs337/en/


Sounds like the perfect place for government to come in and make the antivenom needed.

The problem is that the FDA severely limits how you produce the antivenins. There are MANY snake and spider venoms with no antivenom available (that isn't expired, or doesn't have to be smuggled in from Mexico.)

 

[Darwin333]

No way you could get the antivenom treatment for a hundred or two in Mexico unless the Mexicans found a way to produce it from chili beans. My uncle was bit by a rattle snake and his treatment cost him around 35k Turkish liras, which is more or less $12k. The difference is he was treated at a state hospital so the only cost to him was the cost of the antivenom, which is imported and is not covered by the national health system.

Not quite positive about snake anti-venom, I did a cursory search but found nothing to compare, but other anti-venoms....

Metro Phoenix hospitals are billing as much as $12,467 per vial of the antivenom approved to help children, the elderly and others quickly recover from severe reactions from scorpion stings.

The Mexican biotechnology company produces more than 250,000 vials for Mexican residents, who are charged about $100 per vial at pharmacies or even less at government-funded clinics for a drug that is administered intravenously, Alag�n said.

Same drug from the same drug maker sells for $100 per vial in Mexico and $12,500 per vial in the states. That is criminally absurd. Add to the fact that they never tell you beforehand that "Hey, just FYI you are going to need 4 of these vials, maybe more, and they cost half a car each". Hell even if you ask how much they won't give you an answer. That is illegal in every single other industry in the country. Yes I know there are times that you will be incapable of understanding or making a rational decision but the vast majority of medical care does not fit that category.
​

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/11/10/20111110scorpion-drug-cost.html

Also, I personally know a veterinarian that says the normal charge for treating a rattlesnake bite with the same antivenom (different brand, same exact shit), regardless if its a horse or dog, for $1,500. That includes his time and the cost of the antivenom. Bottom line is the shit shouldn't be nearly as expensive as it is but since you have absolutely zero choice but to bend over and take it and they aren't even nice enough to spit on it for you.

 

[WelshBloke]

Just out of curiosity.

If you showed up at the emergency dept of the hospital after being bitten and said categorically that you will not pay for treatment would they let you die in the waiting room?
If they did treat you could you then refuse to pay as you had not agreed to the price?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Welsh they would treat you then send you a bill.

 

[Slew Foot]

So does your insurance agent.

The pharmaceutical rep has two

 

[WelshBloke]

Welsh they would treat you then send you a bill.

If I park my car in the forecourt of a tyre place and they replace all my tyres after me telling them not to do I have to pay?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Hospitals are obligated by law to provide care to all who show up which feeds the extraordinary billing to those who can pay. The losses on bad debt get paid back by another patient.
Yes its a broken system.

 

[TheVrolok]

My doctor has a Maserati.

I want a Maserati.

 

[Pulsar]

There are markets where a true free-market system works well. These are markets for non-critical goods. Critical goods, like food, energy (electricity / natural gas), and soon healthcare will all end up being government regulated. There is no other way.

Companies have a single interest - making money. Every person in their company looks for ways to make money. There's only one way to do that: get you to pay more. And if it's something you have to pay for like health care, there is absolutely no recourse for you. You must purchase it, and there is no real competition in the market. The insurance companies are merely an offshoot of the hospitals. They insulate YOU from paying the costs and make you think you're getting a deal.

I lean right, but I have enough wisdom to understand that you can't allow companies to charge whatever they want for services that are literally life and death. It won't work.

 

[halik]

Why would an old guy without insurance fuck with poisonous snakes?


Also what's up with the PEPSI nonsense?

 

[nickqt]

There are markets where a true free-market system works well. These are markets for non-critical goods. Critical goods, like food, energy (electricity / natural gas), and soon healthcare will all end up being government regulated. There is no other way.

Companies have a single interest - making money. Every person in their company looks for ways to make money. There's only one way to do that: get you to pay more. And if it's something you have to pay for like health care, there is absolutely no recourse for you. You must purchase it, and there is no real competition in the market. The insurance companies are merely an offshoot of the hospitals. They insulate YOU from paying the costs and make you think you're getting a deal.

I lean right, but I have enough wisdom to understand that you can't allow companies to charge whatever they want for services that are literally life and death. It won't work.

This, pretty much.

There's a reason that any and every other western country you'd feel comfortable living in for longer than a week has -gasp- socialized healthcare.

That said, I believe private insurance that allows you to pay a premium to go to super ultra mega special doctors is just fine.

 

[OverVolt]

There are markets where a true free-market system works well. These are markets for non-critical goods. Critical goods, like food, energy (electricity / natural gas), and soon healthcare will all end up being government regulated. There is no other way.

Companies have a single interest - making money. Every person in their company looks for ways to make money. There's only one way to do that: get you to pay more. And if it's something you have to pay for like health care, there is absolutely no recourse for you. You must purchase it, and there is no real competition in the market. The insurance companies are merely an offshoot of the hospitals. They insulate YOU from paying the costs and make you think you're getting a deal.

I lean right, but I have enough wisdom to understand that you can't allow companies to charge whatever they want for services that are literally life and death. It won't work.

Healthcare is a local monopoly, like electricity. Either people have had Econ 101 and understand that, or they aren't even worth your time.

It just depends who gets the bargaining power. Right now its the insurance companies but Medicare gets the best rates because they have the most bargaining power. There is a limit of course. Some places don't take medicaid patients because the reimbursement is too low.

 

[OverVolt]

Why would an old guy without insurance fuck with poisonous snakes?


Also what's up with the PEPSI nonsense?

I got this hold my beer.

 

[WelshBloke]

Hospitals are obligated by law to provide care to all who show up which feeds the extraordinary billing to those who can pay. The losses on bad debt get paid back by another patient.
Yes its a broken system.

Sorry for the obvious (to you) questions it's just that we don't do billing here. I'm not being deliberately difficult asking them and I appreciate your answers.

So what happens if a patient refuses to give you any details?
We get that sometimes and it's a bit of a pain in the arse. It can be difficult to pull up their old notes and there's no way to inform their GP about any after care (although we can just give them a letter about it) but it's manageable. How do you bill someone that you have no details for?

 

[TheVrolok]

Sorry for the obvious (to you) questions it's just that we don't do billing here. I'm not being deliberately difficult asking them and I appreciate your answers.

How do you bill someone that you have no details for?

Often times you don't.

 

[Harrod]

That price really doesn't surprise me, my wife used to work for a local hospital around here as a pharmacist, she told me that the antivenom was extremely expensive and that they didn't carry it and it had to be flown in if someone was bitten.

She said it is also why when you are bitten your supposed to bring in the dead snake to make sure they aren't flying in/injecting you with the wrong stuff.

 

[Turkish]

Not quite positive about snake anti-venom, I did a cursory search but found nothing to compare, but other anti-venoms....

Same drug from the same drug maker sells for $100 per vial in Mexico and $12,500 per vial in the states. That is criminally absurd. Add to the fact that they never tell you beforehand that "Hey, just FYI you are going to need 4 of these vials, maybe more, and they cost half a car each". Hell even if you ask how much they won't give you an answer. That is illegal in every single other industry in the country. Yes I know there are times that you will be incapable of understanding or making a rational decision but the vast majority of medical care does not fit that category.
​

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/11/10/20111110scorpion-drug-cost.html

Also, I personally know a veterinarian that says the normal charge for treating a rattlesnake bite with the same antivenom (different brand, same exact shit), regardless if its a horse or dog, for $1,500. That includes his time and the cost of the antivenom. Bottom line is the shit shouldn't be nearly as expensive as it is but since you have absolutely zero choice but to bend over and take it and they aren't even nice enough to spit on it for you.

Ok, I guess it's even cheaper in Mexico. That's really ridiculous about the US prices though. I don't know how you survive with that healthcare system, even if you have insurance. Pretty sure the insurance I had when I lived back in the States didn't cover antivenoms.