$150 video card for a Dell Dimension 4500? Need help for a friend

[Rhin0]

hey guys,

I need some video card help/advice. On a budget of no more than around $150 or less.

My buddy has Dell Dimension 4500, specs:

-Intel 1.8Ghz P4 processor
-256 RAM (Upgrading to 768mb)
-GeForce 4 "MX" 64mb, MX=suck
-AGP 4x mobo

**WANT TO Be able to play HL2, Counter-Strike: Source and have it run nicely and look nice (I know he won't get 6800 Ultra performance ever) and give him a boost for Desert Combat final too. Mainly he needs it for Source. I don't want to go over the top with the video card and have the CPU as the bottleneck, note he has a 1.8 ghz CPU.

-Is a DirectX 9.0 card even an option? I'd really like to have a 9.0 card for him if possible I think.

I found this list in another thread while searching for the answer, I guess these are cards that would work pretty well?
Dimension 4500, 4550, 4600, 8100, 8200, 8250 (AGP video cards) =
PNY Verto GeForce FX 6800 GT
Leadtek GeForce FX 6800 GT
GeForce FX 6800
Radeon X800 SE
Radeon 9800 XT
GeForce FX 5950
Radeon 9800 Pro
GeForce FX 5900
Radeon 9700
Radeon 9600 XT
Radeon 9600 Pro
GeForce FX 5750
GeForce FX 5700
Radeon 9600 SE


-Would I be better off to look at a ATI Radeon something or other AGP card (which one?) since he wants to play mainly Counter Strike Source? Are any of the ATI cards that will fit in the 4500 DX9.0 and AGP? This is a big deal to me, i'm not against ATI or Nvidia, I want whatever will work better for him for the money. I know ATI cards run Source better, plain and simple. So if I could get a $150 dollar DX9 ATI card that has better peformance I would. If the DX9.0 doesn't make that big of a difference vs. DX8 then I could go with a Radeon 9000 something right? Which one would be good?

Other important question
-Since he only has a 4x AGP motherboard in there now does that mean I need a 4x card or will an 8x card work? Will he just have half the "pipe"?


Here is the card he is pretty set on buying, i'm not sure if it is the best choice for this price range (but he would be getting DX9.0 which is important):

Chaintech nVIDIA GeForce 6600 Video Card, 256MB DDR, 128-Bit, DVI/TV-Out, AGP 8X
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-145-112&depa=0


-Anything off that list going to be better that what the link is to and be in same price range? I see a lot of those cards aren't DX9.0???


Please give me some advice and recommendations. Any other upgrades aren't happening, it was RAM and video card only.

Thanks,
Rhin0

 

[Rhin0]

Been surfing newegg.

See some really good deals on the Nvidia 5750 or whatever... Like a 256mb card for around $75.00. Don't these suck for source games though?

I am really interested in some of the Radeon 9600's I am seeing. Do these peform better?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

I think I'd take a 9800pro if he can stretch the budget a few dollars.

An 8x AGP card will work fine in a 4x slot afaik.

If you need to go cheaper, I think something in the $100 range like a 9600pro would be a good option too if he wants to save money.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Rhin0
Been surfing newegg.

See some really good deals on the Nvidia 5750 or whatever... Like a 256mb card for around $75.00. Don't these suck for source games though?

I am really interested in some of the Radeon 9600's I am seeing. Do these peform better?

Don't buy on ram amount. A crappy card wont be able to use 256mb of ram effectively.

 

[Rhin0]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Rhin0
Been surfing newegg.

See some really good deals on the Nvidia 5750 or whatever... Like a 256mb card for around $75.00. Don't these suck for source games though?

I am really interested in some of the Radeon 9600's I am seeing. Do these peform better?

Don't buy on ram amount. A crappy card wont be able to use 256mb of ram effectively.

I was keeping that in mind. I been looking at the bus and core speeds.

So is this a pretty good card for Source? It seems to be a pretty nice card... I don't think i've seen a better alternative for this price range. If there is I hope I see it before we buy:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-410&depa=1

-However, it is 256mb. Should I look at a "faster" (core and bus wise) 128 megabyte card?





-What about the x600 cards? I haven't heard much about them. They are cheap though.

Thank you for your help. I am leaning away from the Nvidia FX series since I remember see how bad source did on that generation of card. Also I see that all the 9xxx are DX9.0, I didn't know that, I thought they were too old. I'm getting excited to get him upgraded, he needs it!

really though I appreciate the help

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

If the 256mb or ram on that 9600pro isn't clocked slower than a 128mb version then it will be faster or the same speed at everything.

The X600 is a PCI-e card, so unless he's getting a new motherboard, scratch that idea.

Have you looked at the HL2 articles here? If you haven't, take a look to help you get an idea of how the different cards perform. If you know this is for HL2 specifically this article will be a great resource for you.

 

[Acanthus]

You can get an AGP 6600 for that price, and they OC like crazy on the core (as long as it has decent cooling).

 

[Munky]

Yeah, stay away from FX cards, they suck at DX9. Also, only radeon 9500 cards and higher are DX9 compliant (Well, the 9200 is too, but it's too slow anyway for modern games). So for around $150, if you can get a ati 9800 or a 9800pro, it would be the best card for the money. Just make sure you get the 256-bit version, because some of the cheaper ones are crippled by a 128-bit memory bus.

 

[Rhin0]

Originally posted by: munky
Yeah, stay away from FX cards, they suck at DX9. Also, only radeon 9500 cards and higher are DX9 compliant (Well, the 9200 is too, but it's too slow anyway for modern games). So for around $150, if you can get a ati 9800 or a 9800pro, it would be the best card for the money. Just make sure you get the 256-bit version, because some of the cheaper ones are crippled by a 128-bit memory bus.

THanks guys... Those FX series Nvidia cards are AWFUL. I sure won't help him install one because he'll be nothing but dissapointed.

I am definately going to get him to get an ATI card for this application. I am going to push for a 9700 but I will let him settle for 9600XT


-One question on these, how big of difference did 128 meg vs 256 meg memory make on these cards? Seems like if i remember correctly it didn't make all that much difference? By these cards I mean you know a 9600xt with 128 megs vs 256 and so on...

thanks

 

[Munky]

Only high end cards can really use the 256 mb of video mem effectively, so any midrange card would be best combined with 128 mb.

 

[fstime]

6600 vanilla.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: BouZouki
6600 vanilla.

Especially considering how CPU limited he'd be with anything much faster than that.

 

[Rhin0]

Well guys thanks for all the recommendations. I'm going to let him decide what he wants (it won't be Nvidia at this price range that is for sure).

It is going to be between a 9600Pro, 9600XT, or a 9800 Pro -128mb;256-bit (If he can spend this much). The brand is most like going to be sapphire.

You can get a 9600 Pro for around 95 dollars and it is probably only a little slower than a 9600XT. There is almost a 30 dollar difference though. I am going to push for the 9600XT as the minimum. I am keeping in mind he has PC2100 Ram (768mb of it) and a 1.8ghz CPU plus whatever he might lose on the Dell mobo (lack of dual channel, etc) so the 9600XT seems like a good choice.

If he can swing for the 9800 pro, i'll have him do that though.

Thanks again, i'm still open to your thoughts

 

[Rhin0]

And before I hear something lame like "ATI fanboi" I bought two 6800 Ultra's this past December, I have nothing against Nvidia at all. I love my Ultra.

Just seems since he isn't overclocking the 6600 isn't as good as of choice. I just don't think it will peform as well as the 9800 Pro in Source. The 9600XT will be about the same if not faster also.

If I was playing Doom 3 i'd think otherwise, but we don't play that

 

[2Xtreme21]

6600 may be a tad slow for his taste. I think the 9700pro would be a great option for him... which can be found on ebay "Buy It Now" for ~$140. The 9800pro is your next viable option with a bit over his budget and the 6600GT would be his fastest option but moderately over his budget.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Rhin0
I just don't think it will peform as well as the 9800 Pro in Source. The 9600XT will be about the same if not faster also.

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=1459&cid=3&pg=14

Shows the 6600 pretty competitive with the 9800 Pro and sometimes passing it. And for a lot less money. If you're willing to shell out an extra $50 more than a 6600 for a tiny improvement with the 9800 Pro, then why not shell out another $30 for a huge leap over the 9800 Pro with he 6600GT? /confused, but takes your word you're no fanboi.

 

[bcoupland]

Although a 6600 sounds like a possibly good option, i'm not sure that it would work well, if at all in an AGP 4x slot. Because the 6600 is native PCI-e, it uses the HSI bridge chip, and i'm not sure it is compatible with the AGP 4x spec. If anyone knows otherwise, please comment. Anyways, a 9600Pro/9600XT/9700/9700Pro/9800/9800Pro would be a good choice. If the HSI on the 6600 can work with AGP 4x, it may also be a viable option, depending on the price.

Hope this helps

 

[Rhin0]

hey man,

Wanted to thank you again and let you know what my friend decided to go with. Instead of buying the RAM that crucial memory finder picked (184-pinn PC2100, unbuff, cl2.5) for $61 shipped I went ahead and found Corsair Value Select with matching specs on newegg for $55 shipped. Went with 512mb of that. So that will put him at 768MB of RAM. For video card he just couldn't spare the money for a 9800 PRO or 9700. We went with the Sapphire 9600XT 128mb video card.

We set my CS source on 60fps lock and he played it. He said it was fine at 60fps. So we are shooting for around 50-60 FPS for CS:S gaming on his upgraded computer. Probably be playing 1024x768 with most on medium or high, no AA, trilinear... Will be on DX9 graphics.

I told him to expect to lose some performance because of only having 4x AGP, <1 gig ram, only a 1.8ghz CPU (short of the recommended 2.2ghz), the dell motherboard, and a 5400RPM HD (probably I think).
So I think around 50FPS is a good guessimate. It should definately be more than playable and he can turn everything down to medium if needed, it still looks good on medium. And if that doesn't work there is a tweak guide were you change some settings and such to get about 10 extra FPS.

So he went from:
-1.8ghz P4
-256mb RAM
-Geforce MX4 64mb video card

To:

-1.8ghz P4
-768mb
-Radeon 9600XT 128mb video card

Should be able to max out Desert Combat, run Rise of nations a lot smoother (maxed), and actually be able to run HL2 and CS:S now. CS:S will be more than playable on medium I think. I know there are others that play just fine with LESS hardware.

Thanks again, i'll let you know what kind of FPS we get.

Rhin0

 

[2Xtreme21]

Stretching an extra $15 or so dollars for a 9700pro would be an immense increase over a 9600XT. :\ But I'm glad your friend is happy with it.

 

[gobucks]

i'd say a 9700 Pro might work, although you'd probably be limited to 1024x768 no AA/AF, and i think they are under $150 now. A 9800 Pro is also a decent choice, if you can stretch your budget to $175-180, but at that price point the best bet is currently the 6600GT, which is simply a monster for $180. I'm not sure how CPU limited they will be, but it won't be anywhere near as limited as a high end card (the 1.8GHz P4 is a willemmete core, with 256K L2, so it's definitely a slow CPU.)

 

[imported_JamesDax]

For 121.99 shiped you can get the Leadtek 6200 AGP from Newegg. Unlock the 4 extra pipes and overclock it and it will faster then 9700Pro and is more future proof because of sm 3.0. I have this card and I'm running it at 425/650 c/ 8pipes and I'm getting 5920 in 3DMark03 and 2571 in 3DMark05.

The 6200 is the best budget card on the market.

 

[royhobbs]

6600GT (Refurbished) AGP for $150-160 plus .99 cents shipping at Newegg right now! They have a bunch of them. 99 cent shipping on everything until April 4th. I think it's a great deal if anyone is still looking for a card. I ended up with this card. (refurbished though)

MSI 6600 GT

AGP & PCI-e 6600GT's to see some more cards from Newegg.

Happy Hunting everyone!

 

[shoRunner]

i go either 9700pro, 9500pro , or 6600. no reason to get a 9600 as they are not nearly as good as the 9700. i have one running cs:s @ 1024x768 with 2xAA and 4xAF and getting usually around 40-100+ fps in game, but then he has different cpu...

*edit* after checking toms the 6600 would definately be the best route to go

 

[imported_JamesDax]

Originally posted by: shoRunner
i go either 9700pro, 9500pro , or 6600. no reason to get a 9600 as they are not nearly as good as the 9700. i have one running cs:s @ 1024x768 with 2xAA and 4xAF and getting usually around 40-100+ fps in game, but then he has different cpu...

*edit* after checking toms the 6600 would definately be the best route to go

Unlocked 6200 = 6600.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: JamesDax

Originally posted by: shoRunner
i go either 9700pro, 9500pro , or 6600. no reason to get a 9600 as they are not nearly as good as the 9700. i have one running cs:s @ 1024x768 with 2xAA and 4xAF and getting usually around 40-100+ fps in game, but then he has different cpu...

*edit* after checking toms the 6600 would definately be the best route to go

Unlocked 6200 = 6600.

The 6600gt uses ddr3 memory, but the 6200 doesnt, so it would never be as good as a 6600gt even if you do unlock the other pipes and OC it. Plus you only have 128-bit memory bus, so if you play at high res with AA/AF, it's gonna be a bottleneck, compared to the 256-bit bus of the 9800. Here's how it is:

6200 unlocked = 6600 < 9800pro < 6600gt.