150,000+ protest in UK against Gaza siege

[Exophase]

Hey, pay attention. Calling for, and working towards, the destruction of Israel is racism, pure and simple, and that's the Palestinian objective.

Finding an example of one person in 150k+ protestors holding a "destruction of Israel" sign doesn't mean that 90-95% of them feel that way. I can't believe I have to say this multiple times. If you had some sort of unbiased survey or could show a big picture with a huge crowd carrying the same sign you might have a point but you don't have anything like that. You made a totally outlandish statement and are doing nothing to back it up.

And yeah but sorry, I do stand by the statement that calling for a country's destruction doesn't necessarily mean you're racist - but that's really just a technicality, because I think that's still a really awful and hateful thing to want. Nonetheless, there are plenty of people who call for the destruction of the USA, who are they racist against exactly? You've stated with little ambiguity that you think Gaza should be wiped out, so I guess that means you're racist against Gazans? Even though I doubt you'd call such a people a race.

If you guys can't even accept that the Palestinian leaders are known, wanted terrorists who repeatedly get re-elected, then what's the point of even listening to them/you?

I love how I'm part of "you guys" now. That's really how this works - if someone doesn't agree with anything you say then they're automatically lumped in with "them" on everything. It's the same bullshit hive-mind mentality that drives a lot of the partisan crap you see everywhere. Actually it appears to be largely an extension of that, with thoroughly pro-Israel being the mandatory conservative stance and thoroughly anti-Israel being the mandatory liberal stance, right?

For your information I have no problem whatsoever accepting that Hamas is a terrorist group.

 

[JEDIYoda]

 

[fskimospy]

After the mass death of innocent people in Gaza I doubt anyone will be looking towards the IDF for that kind of advice

 

[MongGrel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snTaSJk0n_Y

*ducks*

:sneaky:

 

[Victorian Gray]

 

[SandEagle]

 

[Abwx]

Montreal, Canada :

Toronto :

Ottawa :

Stockholm , Sweden:

Santiago, Chile :

Brussels, Belgium :

Amsterdam, Nederland:

Chicago , USA :

Boston :

Caracas, Venezuela :

And much much more other places :

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/worldwide-protest-israeli.html

 

[Borealis7]

all those signs remind me of this:

these people can protest if it makes them feel better. i suggest they come live 1 year in Israel, see how it really is, and they'll quickly change their minds about the whole situation.

 

[fskimospy]

all those signs remind me of this:

these people can protest if it makes them feel better. i suggest they come live 1 year in Israel, see how it really is, and they'll quickly change their minds about the whole situation.

Like your other posts, this comes from a place where you've already decided Israel is right, and now you're just looking for a reason why. Remember earlier when you said it was impossible not to cause disproportionate civilian casualties in war and then immediately upon finding out that wasn't the case decided that Israel had now somehow avoided the thing you said was impossible to avoid only minutes earlier?

It's interesting that you mention living in Israel as a testament to how you must be right about the situation. People are often blinded by affinity for their community. Have you considered this might be the case as well?

 

[Borealis7]

Like your other posts, this comes from a place where you've already decided Israel is right, and now you're just looking for a reason why. Remember earlier when you said it was impossible not to cause disproportionate civilian casualties in war and then immediately upon finding out that wasn't the case decided that Israel had now somehow avoided the thing you said was impossible to avoid only minutes earlier?

you certainly remember, so cling to your little victory which doesn't change the fact that according to the criteria you posted there is no evidence of any dis-proportionality in Israel's actions. if you look back you will see that we first discussed whether civilian casualties can be avoided in a war zone and only later we discussed the principals of the Rome Statute that you linked. the ICC can look around for months and, just as it was with the UK in Iraq, they will find nothing in Israel.

It's interesting that you mention living in Israel as a testament to how you must be right about the situation. People are often blinded by affinity for their community. Have you considered this might be the case as well?

this whole thing is happening 30 miles from my house. whereas these european protesters know only what the media tells them. are you telling me they know the situation better than i do?

 

[Veliko]

this whole thing is happening 30 miles from my house. whereas these european protesters know only what the media tells them. are you telling me they know the situation better than i do?

So if your neighbour disagrees with you, which one of you is right?

 

[Borealis7]

So if your neighbour disagrees with you, which one of you is right?

there is no "right" as this is not a disagreement over facts. it's a clash of 2 opposing interests:
- Israel wants to defend it's people.
- Hamas wants to destroy them.

pretty simple if you ask me.

 

[Veliko]

there is no "right" as this is not a disagreement over facts. it's a clash of 2 opposing interests:
- Israel wants to defend it's people.
- Hamas wants to destroy them.

pretty simple if you ask me.

Well no, because the disagreement is more nuanced than that.

 

[Borealis7]

Well no, because the disagreement is more nuanced than that.

then let a unified Palestinian Authority come to the negotiating table and discuss it so a solution can be drafted. i must say they have a weird way of saying they want peace with israel. i guess it's a love/hate relationship...
all those nuances are completely irrelevant to the current round of fighting. the Palestinian keep calling for a retreat to the 1967 lines, but the Gaza border with Israel today is exactly as it was before the war in 1967!

 

[Veliko]

Oooh, nice deflection!

 

[Borealis7]

Oooh, nice deflection!

not deflecting anything.
Hamas is flying the flag of armed resistance, back recently by Qatar and traditionally by Iran. everything else is just an excuse for more violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

Article 13 There is no negotiated settlement possible. Jihad is the only answer.

that is the true face of the leadership all those europeans are protesting for.
when a tyrant abuses his own people you often see protests calling for the ousting of that tyrant, i see no one (except israelis oddly enough) calling for the release of the people of Gaza from the terrorist dictators Hamas. heck, some palestinians tried to do that, they were falsely accused of cooperating with Israel and executed in the streets of Gaza.

 

[CitizenKain]

all those signs remind me of this:

these people can protest if it makes them feel better. i suggest they come live 1 year in Israel, see how it really is, and they'll quickly change their minds about the whole situation.

They could get propaganda from an apartheid state shoved directly down their throat, and if they don't like it, the police will assault them.

 

[Veliko]

not deflecting anything.
Hamas is flying the flag of armed resistance, back recently by Qatar and traditionally by Iran. everything else is just an excuse for more violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_Covenant

that is the true face of the leadership all those europeans are protesting for.
when a tyrant abuses his own people you often see protests calling for the ousting of that tyrant, i see no one (except israelis oddly enough) calling for the release of the people of Gaza from the terrorist dictators Hamas. heck, some palestinians tried to do that, they were falsely accused of cooperating with Israel and executed in the streets of Gaza.

This is a complete non-sequitar.

The protesters are protesting against the force being applied to Palestinians civilians by the Israeli military, they aren't supporting Hamas.

 

[fskimospy]

you certainly remember, so cling to your little victory which doesn't change the fact that according to the criteria you posted there is no evidence of any dis-proportionality in Israel's actions. if you look back you will see that we first discussed whether civilian casualties can be avoided in a war zone and only later we discussed the principals of the Rome Statute that you linked. the ICC can look around for months and, just as it was with the UK in Iraq, they will find nothing in Israel.


this whole thing is happening 30 miles from my house. whereas these european protesters know only what the media tells them. are you telling me they know the situation better than i do?

I don't care about a 'little victory', I'm trying to get you to see that you might not be looking at the situation objectively or rationally.

 

[Borealis7]

This is a complete non-sequitar.

The protesters are protesting against the force being applied to Palestinians civilians by the Israeli military, they aren't supporting Hamas.

they are also completely ignoring everything Hamas is doing - using money for terror instead of livelihood for their citizens. do you suppose that any other day of the year, when there is no fighting between Israel and Hamas, these people protest for the removal of Hamas? no. they only protest against Israel because...Israel.

 

[Borealis7]

I don't care about a 'little victory', I'm trying to get you to see that you might not be looking at the situation objectively or rationally.

are you looking at the situation objectively? you only look at the casualty numbers that tell a very small part of the story. you've completely ingested the Hamas Kool-Aid - their "game" is to fire rockets at Israel, hide in civilian population, get bombed, and portray Israel as the evil empire. great tactic! but one that gets your people killed en-masse.
i never saw you cry out for the 5 million israelis in the line of fire of these rockets. you want to talk war crimes? here are your war crimes:

principle of proportionality criminalizes:
(1)Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the (2)concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;

(1) is pretty self explanatory - Hamas fires exclusively at civilians.
(2) what exactly is the military advantage Hamas gains by firing rockets at civilians???

according to your beloved Rome Statute, Hamas is guilty of violating the principle of proportionality!
and you say Israel is the war criminal? prove it!

i'm off until Sunday. i'm not going to waste any of my free time arguing with you.
perhaps until then you would understand how one sided your criticism is.

 

[fskimospy]

This is also a fairly common tactic. Hamas committing war crimes in no way absolves israel of responsibility for committing war crimes. Sometimes you just need to own up to your behavior.

 

[cabri]

This is also a fairly common tactic. Hamas committing war crimes in no way absolves israel of responsibility for committing war crimes. Sometimes you just need to own up to your behavior.

So what is Israel supposed to do; roll over and take it?
Expose the IDF to greater threats by playing Hamas's game?

 

[CitizenKain]

are you looking at the situation objectively? you only look at the casualty numbers that tell a very small part of the story. you've completely ingested the Hamas Kool-Aid - their "game" is to fire rockets at Israel, hide in civilian population, get bombed, and portray Israel as the evil empire. great tactic! but one that gets your people killed en-masse.
i never saw you cry out for the 5 million israelis in the line of fire of these rockets. you want to talk war crimes? here are your war crimes:

(1) is pretty self explanatory - Hamas fires exclusively at civilians.
(2) what exactly is the military advantage Hamas gains by firing rockets at civilians???

according to your beloved Rome Statute, Hamas is guilty of violating the principle of proportionality!
and you say Israel is the war criminal? prove it!

i'm off until Sunday. i'm not going to waste any of my free time arguing with you.
perhaps until then you would understand how one sided your criticism is.

This is why nothing will ever improve in that region, one side has convinced themselves they are some sort of paragon of virtue while murdering children. Then stick their military bases in the middle of civilians so they can claim that any shots back are targeting civilians. While simultaneously purposely slaughtering civilians for sport. Like those kids on the beach that were killed and you celebrate.

 

[Nebor]

Montreal, Canada :

Toronto :

Ottawa :

Stockholm , Sweden:

Santiago, Chile :

Brussels, Belgium :

Amsterdam, Nederland:

Chicago , USA :

Boston :

Caracas, Venezuela :

And much much more other places :

http://mondoweiss.net/2014/07/worldwide-protest-israeli.html

*Sigh* Durkas gonna durk.