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14TB HDDs are Here

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
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512MB buffer!

This the largest so far......though that is needed for the SMR.
 
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Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,378
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Wish they didn't go with SMR, I was hoping they would accelerate HAMR.
SMR is also harder to recover data from. I would bet these suckers would be over $3K to recover--if they can recover anything.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
57,167
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www.uovalor.com
Wow that's crazy, the biggest drives I have are like 4TB. Mind you I would not use SMR drives in production, but they would be great for backup drives. instead of selectivly backing up data to separate jobs on smaller drives I could do the entire environment on one drive and do a verbatim copy of the entire file server luns. Then just have multiple rotations. Not finding them on NCIX though. Was curious what the price would be.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
3,863
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Wow. Just wow. And to think 20 years ago a 3GB drive seemed huge...

Mind you I would not use SMR drives in production, but they would be great for backup drives. instead of selectivly backing up data to separate jobs on smaller drives I could do the entire environment on one drive and do a verbatim copy of the entire file server luns. Then just have multiple rotations.
SMR drives are great for write once, read a lot type jobs. But that's about it.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
57,167
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Wow. Just wow. And to think 20 years ago a 3GB drive seemed huge...



SMR drives are great for write once, read a lot type jobs. But that's about it.
Yeah all my live storage is raid, I can't imagine using these in raid haha. Though if I had the money I would get 4-6 of them and do a raid 10 just for fun. I'd actually be curious as to how usable that would be. For general storage maybe it would be acceptable.
 

cbn

Lifer
Mar 27, 2009
12,968
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Screw SMR. Let me know when the PMR He14 is released.
With the Seagate 12TB Helium (PMR) they finally got up to eight platters.

http://www.storagereview.com/seagate_barracuda_pro_12tb_review

I am assuming the 12TB HGST PMR has the same eight 1.5TB platter configuration (Read is also 250 MB/s like the Seagate 12TB PMR):

http://www.hgst.com/sites/default/files/resources/Ultrastar-He12-datasheet.pdf

So (for either HGST or Seagate) 14TB PMR would be either via another platter + small increase density of platter.....or same number of platters (8) with 1.75TB platters replacing the 1.5TB platters.

Of those two I would hope for the 1.75 TB platters. (Would be nice to have another boost in speed)
 
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fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
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Nice to see 14TB, but I think I'll resist using SMR drives as long as I can. I think I'm within a year of having to upgrade one of my 4TB drives based on how quickly it's filling up, I'll probably go for one of the 8TB non-SMR shuckable WD externals since they're right now in the sweetest price spot.
 

Charlie22911

Senior member
Mar 19, 2005
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Nice to see 14TB, but I think I'll resist using SMR drives as long as I can. I think I'm within a year of having to upgrade one of my 4TB drives based on how quickly it's filling up, I'll probably go for one of the 8TB non-SMR shuckable WD externals since they're right now in the sweetest price spot.
Be aware that there are apparently white label drives that use the 3.3v line in the SATA connector to force the drive into a constant reset state; It’s speculated that this is to discourage shucking.
I’m savvy enough that I’d just try lifting the 3.3v pads for the connector or maybe cutting traces on the controller board so that they also work in backplanes.
 
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fleshconsumed

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Feb 21, 2002
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Be aware that there are apparently white label drives that use the 3.3v line in the SATA connector to force the drive into a constant reset state; It’s speculated that this is to discourage shucking.
I’m savvy enough that I’d just try lifting the 3.3v pads for the connector or maybe cutting traces on the controller board so that they also work in backplanes.
Thanks for the heads up, did not know about this. Seems like a recent thing. Got to love the Hard Drive monopoly when WD can do this shit and get away with it...
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
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Be aware that there are apparently white label drives that use the 3.3v line in the SATA connector to force the drive into a constant reset state; It’s speculated that this is to discourage shucking.
Nothing to do with discouraging shucking.
It is part of the SATA 3.3 spec.
The new Power Disable feature (similar to the SAS Power Disable feature) utilises Pin 3 of the SATA power connector. Some legacy power supplies that provide 3.3V power on Pin 3 would force drives with Power Disable feature to get stuck in a hard reset condition preventing them from spinning up
 
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fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
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Nothing to do with discouraging shucking.
It is part of the SATA 3.3 spec.
So how would I know if a drive like this will work in my system or not. Is it power supply dependent, or motherboard/hard drive controller dependent?
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
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So how would I know if a drive like this will work in my system or not. Is it power supply dependent, or motherboard/hard drive controller dependent?
Depends on the PSU, and what SATA spec they followed.

For what it is worth, Seasonic (Ultra series) ships a SATA 3.3 adapter to support the "Power Disable" (PWDIS) feature of the newer, high-capacity hard drives.
 
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Charlie22911

Senior member
Mar 19, 2005
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Depends on the PSU, and what SATA spec they followed.

For what it is worth, Seasonic (Ultra series) ships a SATA 3.3 adapter to support the "Power Disable" (PWDIS) feature of the newer, high-capacity hard drives.
I’m a small sample size, but I have the following power supplies all of which have the 3.3v line:

Corsair:
VX450
TX650
AX1200

EVGA:
1000 P2
1200 T2

Antec:
HCP 1200


So it seems reasonable to say there is a good chance most people also have the 3.3v line. I didn’t know it was part of the SATA spec, claims of thwarting shucking did seem a bit dubious but I didn’t bother digging into it.
This will be easy to bypass using a molex adapter though, a sliver of polyimide tape over the offending pin(s) on the male Sata connecter may also do the job.
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,378
763
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What I find odd is, that yes, these bigger HDs were first made for SAS in mind, but, why didn't they just update the firmware of the drive in question to ignore PWDIS for the consumer version?
That way, consumers won't think the drive is dead when they get it. Or, a simple adapter can be included with the HD in question, and fix it that way.
 

Charlie22911

Senior member
Mar 19, 2005
608
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What I find odd is, that yes, these bigger HDs were first made for SAS in mind, but, why didn't they just update the firmware of the drive in question to ignore PWDIS for the consumer version?
That way, consumers won't think the drive is dead when they get it. Or, a simple adapter can be included with the HD in question, and fix it that way.
As far as I’m aware this only applies to the white label drives inside of the MyBook enclosures. This may be used to sleep the drive when inactive without relying on the host/OS to do so, though this is speculation on my part.


I find in interesting that we are using helium to push the spinning rust forward. Helium is notoriously hard to contain, has there been any study into how these drives function with loss?
 

Elixer

Lifer
May 7, 2002
10,378
763
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As far as I’m aware this only applies to the white label drives inside of the MyBook enclosures. This may be used to sleep the drive when inactive without relying on the host/OS to do so, though this is speculation on my part.
I have seen this on lots of the newer / bigger Ultrastar drives now. Here is a pdf on which ones have this feature, and which ones don't. https://www.hgst.com/sites/default/files/resources/HGST-Power-Disable-Pin-TB.pdf Also explains the issue at hand about pin 3, and what they recommend for "legacy" PSUs / cases.
I find in interesting that we are using helium to push the spinning rust forward. Helium is notoriously hard to contain, has there been any study into how these drives function with loss?
I was wondering the same, and never found any documented case about a HD losing its Helium. Whatever the seal(s) they are using, seems they work well.
 
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fleshconsumed

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2002
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Depends on the PSU, and what SATA spec they followed.

For what it is worth, Seasonic (Ultra series) ships a SATA 3.3 adapter to support the "Power Disable" (PWDIS) feature of the newer, high-capacity hard drives.

[. . .]

I have seen this on lots of the newer / bigger Ultrastar drives now. Here is a pdf on which ones have this feature, and which ones don't. https://www.hgst.com/sites/default/files/resources/HGST-Power-Disable-Pin-TB.pdf Also explains the issue at hand about pin 3, and what they recommend for "legacy" PSUs / cases.
Sounds to me like it's more of a backpane feature support, as in backpane controls whether to pass the PWDIS 3.3v pin signal or not.
 

Charlie22911

Senior member
Mar 19, 2005
608
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Sounds to me like it's more of a backpane feature support, as in backpane controls whether to pass the PWDIS 3.3v pin signal or not.
Spot on, I'm thinking this would be more for someone like BackBlaze than for a home or even maybe small buisness; from the PDF linked previously by Elixer (thanks!):

Q: Why would you want this feature on SATA?
A:
Since many SATA storage devices are deployed in storage systems that use SAS backplanes, this SATA feature is compatible with the SAS implementation, and will work properly when used on a SAS backplane that supports this feature.

Q: Why would you want this feature?
A:
The Power Disable feature provides an easy way to power cycle a drive in order to perform a hard reset. This can be useful if a drive locks up for some reason, and you don’t want to send a technician to the physical rack and manually “unplug the drive” and then “plug it back in” in order to power cycle the drive. Now, a smart chassis can provide a management tool to do this function automatically.
 

nathanddrews

Graphics Cards, CPU Moderator
Super Moderator
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I dunno, I'm pretty lazy and would also like this feature on my home servers instead of going downstairs to do it manually...
 

rchunter

Senior member
Feb 26, 2015
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Is there a list somewhere of supermicro chassis models with the new Sata 3.3 specification?
 

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