144hz / FreeSync ....ghosting text while scrolling.

[MTDEW]

EDIT: *Fixed* (see post 27)


I just purchased my first 144hz/freesync monitor.
Its the AOC G2770PF to be exact. LINK TO REVIEW

I expected to be blown away by the higher refresh rate coming from my other 60hz monitors, since everyone always says "The difference from a 60hz display is like night and day and I'll never go back to 60hz"

But to say I'm underwhelmed performing everyday tasks would be an understatement.

When dragging a window around my desktop there is noticeable text ghosting.
When scrolling web pages there is noticeable text ghosting.

I can stop the text ghosting while scrolling on these forums in Firefox if i disable smooth scrolling, but Ive never had to do that with any other monitor i've ever owned. (the text ghosting also happens in Chrome & IE, so its not a Firefox issue)

Ive done the blur busters frame skipping test shown HERE and verified the monitor is not skipping frames at 120hz or 144hz...all looks good.(I used Chrome for this)

120hz/144hz and FreeSync seem to be working just fine also.

Is it normal to have text ghosting when dragging windows around the desktop or scrolling through web pages on a 120/144hz monitor?
And if it is, why do reviews or other 120hz/144hz owners never mention these things?
Any Suggestions of things to try?

I've tried every overdrive setting my monitor has and it makes zero difference.

As far as the gaming experience...
I'm very happy with the 30hz-144hz Freesync range using the unsigned driver AOC provides , it works very well. :thumbsup:

For day to day tasks though, i'm sticking with my 60hz IPS monitor for now.
But I'd really like to be able to use just one display on this PC, since my desk isn't really setup for multiple displays.

And no, this isn't a TN vs IPS thing, I own several of both type of panels and was fully aware of TNs limitations before buying, this monitor was bought for GAMING so the lower response time , higher refresh rate and FreeSync were the key features.
I just didn't expect this text ghosting issue when doing everyday tasks, since nobody ever seems to mention it and none of my other TN panels have the issue.

Note: I've already calibrated the monitor, so that's not the issue.(I used A Datacolor Spyder4 Express to be exact)

 

[digitaldurandal]

Did the blur busters test show worse ghosting than expected for the monitor?

I don't understand the text ghosting issue, do you often move a window while continuing to read from it? Does it inhibit reading a line of text when you scroll?

Never heard this complaint before about any monitor honestly, but if you see something outrageously bad on webpages I would think it would also happen with 3d games and the blur buster test.

I feel like there are only three probable possibilities
1) You have a defective unit
2) You have something misconfigured
or
3) You have unrealistic expectations

 

[MTDEW]

I'll answer the questions the best I can.

1: As for the Datacolor Spyder calibration, it's fine for me.
I'm not looking for 100% color accuracy or I obviously wouldn't have gone with a TN panel.
The Spyder calibration saves me the time of using images to manually "eyeball" my color calibration, and it works just fine for the two main things and that's getting the white/black levels to where Im not losing detail.

2: The only Blur Busters ghosting test I saw requires the use of a Pursuit Camera which I don't have access to. BLur Busters Ghosting Test LINK
But keep in mind I've only been looking at this kind of stuff for a few days, since this is my first monitor with a high refresh rate, so any suggestions and links of tests to try would be more than welcome.

3: I agree that this is something I've never seen or heard of before myself either, and Ive owned many different monitors over the years, and this is the first i've experienced this.
But doing a google search turns up enough hits to say that its more common than I would have ever imagined.
A: Here's one using a different panel than mine where they managed to solve it by changing a setting.(my monitor doesnt have a similar setting that I know of)
In that thread they seem to refer to it as pixel overdrive or inverse ghosting, if that helps anyone to understand what I'm trying to descibe and what may be causing the issue.
Note: I have OverDrive disabled in my monitors OSD settings....but ive tried all 4 overdrive settings also and none of them seemed to make a difference..
B:Here's another on this forum.

4: As ive said, i dont notice it at all when gaming, and the way the text "smears" while scrolling, it would be pretty obvious if it was happening while gaming also, so i really dont think it is.

5: yeah, i dont read text while moving a window....lol
I just used that as an example to demonstrate that its not just happening when using a browser.

6: I don't consider myself overly critical or very picky.
I mean, I did choose a TN panel / 27" 1080p with a less than optimal pixel pitch....so that should tell you right there that I don't "look" for things to be "wrong" or purposely pick things apart.

This issue... you don't have to "look" for, its blatantly obvious as soon as you scroll text on a webpage.
In my case, the worst is right here on this forum, blue text on a white background, the blue text smears like crazy when scrolling.

7: I'm hoping you're correct and I have something configured wrong, and there is a setting in the OSD that will fix my issue like the BenQ in the link above....and someone will chime in and say "all you need to do is...." and your problem will be gone.
But I swear I've toggled every OSD setting on/off and see no improvement.

8: I don't feel i have unrealistic expectations, I feel that doing daily tasks on a 120hz/144hz monitor should be at least equivalent to any 60hz monitor I've ever used, not a "step down" when it comes to having to deal with ghosting/smearing text....or that's what I expected at the very least since i've never really seen this issue mentioned before.

9: If it comes down to it and this is just the trade off for having a higher refresh rate and freesync, I can accept that.
But if that is the case, I'm still left wondering why Ive never seen nor heard of this before now.

 

[MTDEW]

Why you don't try this monitor with another computer? To see if makes any difference.

Good suggestion.
Yeah I can try that, I have three other PCs in my home.

I just tried using HDMI/60hz instead of the Display port and that didn't make a difference.

I'm gonna try uninstalling the video and monitor drivers, then install just the video drivers and let Windows 10 install its Generic PNP monitor driver and see what that does before I go lugging this thing to another room first.
Just to see if no higher HZ or freesync makes a difference.

 

[MTDEW]

Well, so much for my idea.
I just uninstalled the monitor driver, then uninstalled the AMD Crimson drivers, ran DDU in safe mode, now I'm at the desktop with no video or monitor drivers at all and it still does it.

EDIT: But not near as bad.....hmmmm....

EDIT 2: Just installed the AMD Crimson drivers and its still pretty good, barely noticeable.
The Win10 generic PnP driver only gives a Freesync range of 48hz - 120hz according to the Crimson Control panel though.

AOC gives two drivers in a package when you download them for this monitor. one is an official WHQL signed driver that I think only does like 40hz - 144hz freesync and a Beta un-signed driver that does 30hz - 144hz Freesync....ive only tried the beta, i'll try the WHQL one this time and see how that goes.

 

[MTDEW]

No PC with win7 still on it, I did all free upgrades on all 3 desktops and my laptop.
BUT...I do still have Acronis images of my windows 7 installs, and of course my Win10 install is imaged, so I can try Win7 then.....good idea, i didnt think of that.

Wife has an AMD R9 290 and my backup has an AMD 7950....but...I do have an old Nvidia GTX 470 in an old i7 920 PC I can try.

BTW: Official WHQL monitor driver or the beta driver both make the problem return.
As soon as I install either monitor driver, its very noticeable again.
They even included a 2770G4.icm color profile with the WHQL driver that i didnt notice before since i went straight for the 30hz-144hz freesync beta driver....LOL
But sadly, that color profile doesn't help with the issue anyway.

Ok, im off to try restoring my Win7 image.....hopefully there havent been too many windows updates since i made it...this could take awhile....LOL

 

[MTDEW]

Well I just restored my Win7 image on this pc. (gotta love Acronis True image :thumbsup: )
Win7 does act a bit different, I have the same AMD Crimson and AOC monitor drivers installed. (of course)

In Win7 if I set my desktop to 60hz, it doesn't do it.
But unfortunately as soon as I set it to 120hz or 144hz the ghosting/smearing text comes back.

Now in Win10, it didnt matter if I was set at 60,120 or 144hz it did it.

 

[Piroko]

In that thread they seem to refer to it as pixel overdrive or inverse ghosting, if that helps anyone to understand what I'm trying to descibe and what may be causing the issue.

That was actually my first thought. Did the AOC driver install its i-Menu software? That might override your actual display settings in the OSD. This should be the same panel and I would not be surprised if max overdrive shows a large amount of inverse ghosting.

Edit: AMD or Nvidia should make no difference at all.

 

[MTDEW]

Yeah, I will try the Nvidia.
I just restored back to Win10 and I was wrong, setting the desktop to 60hz here fixes the issue also.

Gonna go boot that old PC and see if I imaged its Win7 install on that one.

If I didn't , it may be easier to just pull the Nvidia card and put it in this pc to test.

note: I make all my images with clean installs, with all updates but no video or sound drivers installed to ensure "clean" driver installs for troubleshooting, so it wont be that hard to from AMD to Nvidia and ensure no old driver leftover conflicts.

 

[MTDEW]

That was actually my first thought. Did the AOC driver install its i-Menu software? That might override your actual display settings in the OSD. This should be the same panel and I would not be surprised if max overdrive shows a large amount of inverse ghosting.

Edit: AMD or Nvidia should make no difference at all.

No, the downloaded driver didnt include any i-menu software, just the driver and default color profile. (and of course i never even opened the driver disc that came with it...LOL )
To be specific,the downloaded driver just includes 2770g4.cat, 2770G4.icm and 2770G4.INF files, you have to manually install it using HAVE DISK in device manager. (not sure what the .cat file is, the beta driver just has the .INF driver file and no .ICM color profile and no .CAT file)

And YES, you're correct, max overdrive looks like crap, i played around with the overdrive settings while gaming too, and i decided to just leave it off.
RESET DEFAULTS in the OCD sets the overdrive to medium, I didnt really notice a difference in gaming or the desktop , so i just turned it off.

I was wondering if the aoc-g2770pqu was the same panel, thats helpful info to know since I can probably find a lot more "user" info on that monitor since it's been out awhile....THNX

 

[MTDEW]

Ok, so any theories on why it doesn't do it at 60hz, but does at 120hz and 144hz?

EDIT: Ahhh....I just noticed something.
While at 60hz there is still some text ghosting when scrolling on this forum.
The blue text ghosts white at 60hz, thats why its barely noticeable on the white background.
At 120hz or 144hz the blue text ghosts/smears blue instead of white, so thats why it's really noticeable at the higher refresh rates.

Curiously enough black text on white background doesnt ghost/smear at all at any hz.

 

[beginner99]

To reduce ghosting and motion blur, strobing LCDs help far more than 120hz. They mostly also do 120hz. So strobing + 120 hz is >>> compared to 144 hz.

Note that freesync does not solve ghosting nor does and some freesync monitors actually have issues in that regard (not sure if freesync is the cause).

 

[ImpulsE69]

I have a Asus MG279Q 144hz Freesync and have none of the issues you describe. Sounds like maybe you got a defective one or that panel isn't that good. Is there a "gaming" setting of some sort?

 

[MTDEW]

I have a Asus MG279Q 144hz Freesync and have none of the issues you describe. Sounds like maybe you got a defective one or that panel isn't that good. Is there a "gaming" setting of some sort?

I appreciate the input, but that's a completely different IPS panel vs this TN panel....very nice though. :thumbsup:

Well the Nvidia GPU is a no go, it looks the same when scrolling certain web pages.

I'm just turning off smooth scrolling to eliminate the issue for now until someday maybe i'll stumble upon another solution.

I did buy the monitor for gaming and as far as that goes, i couldn't be happier, the response time and Freesync range (30hz-144hz) works exactly as advertised.

Contrary to what this thread may imply, I really do like it a lot.

The smooth scrolling issue was just unexpected and really caught me off guard.
Maybe once I learn and understand more about pixel overdrive & inverse ghosting , i'll have a better understanding of whats happening and why.
I may never be able to fix it, but it would be nice to understand why it happens on certain websites and not others.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I appreciate the input, but that's a completely different IPS panel vs this TN panel....very nice though. :thumbsup:

Well the Nvidia GPU is a no go, it looks the same when scrolling certain web pages.

I'm just turning off smooth scrolling to eliminate the issue for now until someday maybe i'll stumble upon another solution.

I did buy the monitor for gaming and as far as that goes, i couldn't be happier, the response time and Freesync range (30hz-144hz) works exactly as advertised.

Contrary to what this thread may imply, I really do like it a lot.

The smooth scrolling issue was just unexpected and really caught me off guard.
Maybe once I learn and understand more about pixel overdrive & inverse ghosting , i'll have a better understanding of whats happening and why.
I may never be able to fix it, but it would be nice to understand why it happens on certain websites and not others.

Yea I realize it is IPS vs TN but I don't think that is the reason for the issue, but who knows.

 

[Headfoot]

This sounds like bad overdrive / inverse overddrive ghosting. Try all the different overdrive settings in the OSD and if its still bad, it may just be a poor panel. TN is supposed to ghost less than IPS and this is one of its major benefits, that and newer panels are better at this than older ones generally speaking. It should not ghost more than an older 60hz IPS panel. It may be defective

 

[Eymar]

This sounds like bad overdrive / inverse overddrive ghosting. Try all the different overdrive settings in the OSD and if its still bad, it may just be a poor panel. TN is supposed to ghost less than IPS and this is one of its major benefits, that and newer panels are better at this than older ones generally speaking. It should not ghost more than an older 60hz IPS panel. It may be defective

OD maybe the cause. Just tried setting OD to max on PG278Q (TN) swift and definitely see white ghosting on blue text in AT forums, don't see any at normal OD setting.

 

[MTDEW]

This sounds like bad overdrive / inverse overddrive ghosting. Try all the different overdrive settings in the OSD and if its still bad, it may just be a poor panel. TN is supposed to ghost less than IPS and this is one of its major benefits, that and newer panels are better at this than older ones generally speaking. It should not ghost more than an older 60hz IPS panel. It may be defective

OD maybe the cause. Just tried setting OD to max on PG278Q (TN) swift and definitely see white ghosting on blue text in AT forums, don't see any at normal OD setting.

Now see, that's what I thought when I first started trying to solve this.
But none of my Overdrive settings stops it, the stronger I set overdrive the worse it gets, but even disabling it doesn't solve the issue.
I have OFF - WEAK -LIGHT -MEDIUM -STRONG.
It's off right now and as I go from weak to strong , it just makes it worse.
Maybe on this monitor even when its OFF it still isn't completely disabled.

But thankfully I don't see it in games, because if it was doing it while gaming it would be obvious because its quite noticeable when browsing/scrolling.

I wish I could find someone with the same monitor.

Maybe i'll create an account on the blur busters forums.

note: edited thread title to better describe the issue.....never make a thread title while you're still frustrated...LOL

 

[MTDEW]

Or maybe I'm asking myself the wrong question.
Maybe the better question is what does smooth scrolling actually do that causes this?

 

[MTDEW]

*Fixed*
It kept bugging me that it didnt happen until i installed the monitor drivers.
If it was the overdrive settings on the monitor, it should have done it even with Win10's generic monitor driver.

Anyway, I did a complete format and clean install of Win10 instead just restoring an image of a previous clean install and the problem is resolved.

Unfortunately that means I'll never really know what was causing it...maybe my clear type settings i had already set in windows when i had my IPS monitor hooked up....but that's just a guess....who knows.

I'm just glad its fixed....it was driving me nuts.

 

[leeroy2009]

just bought this same monitor for my new x99 build - text bluring when scrolling on websites, clean install of windows 10 - the dam thing is goin back to amazon

 

[leeroy2009]

and on this website, when scrolling the blue on the left goes dark when moving the notches of my scroll wheel, goes normal when I stop, what the hell is causing this.

 

[leeroy2009]

stops doing it at 60hz, its only at higher settings

 

[leeroy2009]

read the thread again, its totally gone now ive disabled smooth scrolling, let me go check in chrome

 

[MTDEW]

I'm updating this thread because someone found it doing a google search then emailed me and asked me if i ever totally fixed this issue on the AOC G2770PF.
So i'll update this so if anyone finds it doing a search they know what i did.

1: Use the OSD and go to Extra/Reset and choose YES to reset all settings.
2: Use the OSD and go to Luminance/Overdrive and turn Overdrive off. (default is medium)
3: Leave Game mode and Overdrive off and don't bother with them, changing either one brings the ghosting text back at 144hz.
Hope that helps someone.