13 trillion dollar debt..

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Jeffg010

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2008
3,435
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I say over turn the bush cuts but raise the the amount to 2 million that hit the high end of taxes then I would be much happier about it. Get ride of social security screw all the dumb asses who did not save for retirement. The old farts that tell me they had one hell of a good time spending all that money have no sympathy from me.
 

Rebel44

Senior member
Jun 19, 2006
742
1
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USA is on good way to reach 14 trillion in early 2011 (february or march) - its already at 13.6+ trillion

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

IMO if it continue like this sooner or later USA will end like Greece...
 
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bhanson

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2004
1,749
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bhanson, you took it from the wiki article,



that's quite an issue, though you can't leave elders to cover medical expenses by they're own when they have no income rather then pension,
maybe taking steps in order to make people live better and healthier would do the same thing without having to spend the medical costs unless in exceptional cases,
science patch for AIDS and cancer can also take away a heavy burden of the annual hospitalization costs.

I did.

It's not a problem that can be solved in a few years. The debt has been accumulating for dozens of years and it will take an equally distant period to repay.

I agree that steps should be taken to increase the health of the general population but for most Americans unfortunately the damage has already been done. Years of smoking, drinking, drugs, no exercise, and bad diet on top of not saving money leaves a huge problem in the immediate future.

If children today are targeted I think the duration of their lifetimes is a pretty reasonable goal for the debt repayment. Increase childhood obesity education, mandate physical education classes for every grade level, and start money management education a lot sooner (lets admit it, 1 year of economics in high school is NO preparation for the real world).

Can also start implementing a tiered program to decrease the benefits of medicare/social security. This will eliminate the excess benefits gradually and not leave the current elders out to dry but put pressure on the slightly younger to increase savings.
 

airdata

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2010
4,987
0
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America!!! Eff Yeah!

It is a little more disturbing when you learn that the federal reserve is privately owned, and that it's basically impossible to pay off w\ the amount of interest due.

Maybe we should give another stimulus package so that all of the wall street folk and bankers can have more multi billion dollar bonuses this year.
 

PingSpike

Lifer
Feb 25, 2004
21,765
614
126
I have to imagine that when the bank stops lending we will commence inflating the problem away.
 

mutz

Senior member
Jun 5, 2009
343
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unfortunately the damage has already been done. Years of smoking, drinking, drugs, no exercise, and bad diet on top of not saving money leaves a huge problem in the immediate future.
well, it has to start some time, saying it's too late would only add to people already current despair,
taking care at things when they start or at the moment we become aware with them reduces further complications and might save many lives,
we shouldn't forget that science is getting more and more advanced, medications and treatment,
a person dying 20 years ago from earlier mishandling might live today to he's/her's 80's.
future always brings new possibilities!
 

bhanson

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2004
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well, it has to start some time, saying it's too late would only add to people already current despair,
taking care at things when they start or at the moment we become aware with them reduces further complications and might save many lives,
we shouldn't forget that science is getting more and more advanced, medications and treatment,
a person dying 20 years ago from earlier mishandling might live today to he's/her's 80's.
future always brings new possibilities!

I never said it was too late. Instead I implied that the majority of Americans are irresponsible and you will not likely change years of habits which is why I suggested targeting children.

Going to the fat debate, yes a fat person can change their lifestyle and gradually lose weight and eventually become healthy. If someone has been eating junk for 40 years they're likely not going to change.

Smoking is another example. There is hardly anything less logical then paying $7 for a pack of cigarettes that only work to kill you and provide zero benefit. There is even less logic when a lot of people have trouble paying their rent but still find money to buy this crap. A few people will eventually quit but for most the years and years of making the same retarded decisions over and over will present a situation where there is no remedy.

Taking care of problems the moment they appear is indeed the ideal solution, but this is an unideal world and people are stupid. Years of bad habits are not going to be changed overnight.
 

mutz

Senior member
Jun 5, 2009
343
0
0
If someone has been eating junk for 40 years they're likely not going to change.
that has to do with awareness and maybe governmental support, there is always chance and hope, don't be pessimistic :)!

as for habits, yeah you'r right, they might not change in a blink of an eye these things might take some time to handle,
smoking, alcoholism, over-eating, gambling, drugs etc.

it has to do a lot with what is called life style and cultural habits, the current culture in America is consuming as much as it can with no to much time spend thinking about the consequences and the immense loss to each individual and the wider country economical and moral effect,
i think governments has been subsidizing these greedy way of living cause it brings back a lot of income through taxes, medicine, oil etc. but these short term thinking start to show it's drawback in heavily costly weight on the state budget, whether it is coming out of medical care, pollution, down sliding into moral instability, harming wild life which also impact tourism and what not..?
generally ill living.

i think these things are being currently tackled and the administration is taking steps in order to get the state or country out of that immense environmental inflation,
speaking environment we of course speak of the population state of living, not only the destruction of the nature and general green loss.

this of course demand taking huge steps in order to take this wheel that is on going for years to a different more harmonic direction and it means moving it from the basis which is very costly,
this move cannot be judged by the short scale as looking at this administration or the other losing some money over one fiscal year but it's like building a house from the ground up taking loans, paying with time and so on.

remember of course we are talking about changing an entire nation of more then 300 million people and almost 10 million square kilometer in area,
this is coming as well with an impact of foreign relationship, trade, culture, social differences, power fights, some countries are still communistic etc,
this is a very large and actually a global move which takes time and a lot of effort, calculations and caution from the government officials, every wrong move could have immense impacts on economy, peace and markets fall over to ill interest countries.
this is hard job!
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
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Wait till the interest rate goes up a few points.

Cant wait till we have to live within a budget.

SS MEDICARE AND MEDICAID eat up most of the budget. So cut back on them in some way. You can start by having the supreme court cancelling O'Bummah Care and trying to stabilize medical costs.

We could just faze out SS and some of these programs or slowly cut back on it a little every year over time. A lot of people with retirement plans should be kicked off of Social Security. Start making teachers and the government pay SS for teachers (probably will not hel). Get rid of SS cap.
 
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Canun

Senior member
Apr 1, 2006
528
4
81
Nobody in the U.S. really wants the government to fix the national debt. The first time a tax cut is taken away, AMT isn't adjusted, or a government program they are using is slashed, the american who it affects will cry foul.

In reality, we could bring it down to acceptable levels in time. It just takes people understanding that we all have to buckle down to get the problem fixed.

How would I do it?

I'd try to get a law implemented. At any time the national debt is over 3x's the yearly budget, all program would have to take a 10% cut. The 10% saved would be used to pay down the debt. Every person in the country has to live within their means, and the government should be the one to set the example.
 

mutz

Senior member
Jun 5, 2009
343
0
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You can start by having the supreme court cancelling O'Bummah Care and trying to stabilize medical costs.
with all the public out cry on this plan, you must agree that it is a step forward,
making America more social and caring for each other would make it only stronger,
without taking into account only those who benefit from this plan without giving a nickel through they're life to support this move, take into account those it would actually benefit and you see a more internally stabilized country,
A 2009 Harvard study published in the American Journal of Public Health found more than 44,800 excess deaths annually in the United States associated with lack of insurance.
44,800 is many people dying each year cause they cannot afford medical care or insurance, it cannot be allowed in any normal country these days, maybe in hell, we have to move forward into a more caring environment, leaving out poor or people incapable of paying bills is cruel, it creates social leveling, growing frustration from poorer habitats, crime, distance and alienation,
it creates a feeling of worthy and less worthy, it divides and creates classes.
62% of all 2007 personal bankruptcies in the United States were due to an inability to pay medical costs.
Medical impoverishment is almost unheard of in wealthy countries other than the US either because the state covers everyone or everyone is obliged to by law to have insurance.

Medicare Advantage plans are offered by private insurers and provide benefits over and above coverage in Medicare Parts A and B and receive funding from the Medicare fund for taking on Part A and B coverage. However, under a revised contract made during the previous Bush presidency, Medicare was overpaying the private insurers. MedPAC estimated the overpayment as being approximately $12 billion a year. [23] This meant that the average person in traditional Medicare was paying $90 a year as a subsidy to private insurers for which they received zero benefit and eliminating this overpayment would save $177 billion over ten years.
and that means saving ~18B dollar a year, if so that's not bad at all.
Reducing the deficit was another driver in health care reform. The reform legislation that passed was estimated by the Congressional Budget Office to reduce the deficit by $138 billion over 10 years
another.

laying off progress due to immediate concerns will never allow progress to happen,
immediate concerns would spring up every now and then and should be taken cared of without harming the effort to truly change you'r ways.
taking a large step forward is hard but it at least moving you from the place you were, even if it isn't easy in the beginning, you know you have to do it, further on things can and will only get better, but it is always hard when you start, we have to be brave to take the first step!

Nobody in the U.S. really wants the government to fix the national debt. The first time a tax cut is taken away, AMT isn't adjusted, or a government program they are using is slashed, the american who it affects will cry foul.
maybe no one really wants to change the way they live,
they cry out for reforms but when it touches them in any way, they say, oh, that's crossing the lines, no thanks,
people would like to keep they're line of living, they're satisfied as they are even if they die young and live horribly, as long as nobody bugs them, at least many do.

as for the other idea, the issue is the government cannot seem to follow the line of saving, yes they do all kind of reforms and legislate rules which would allow gradual cuts and return of expenses, in the longer term, in the shorter, it either takes time, or the strains of stabilizing an entire country simply won't allow it.
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
7,034
1
81
Idiots. TAXING cannot EVER reduce a deficit. A deficit is caused by spending more than you take in. If the government cannot be fiscally responsible enough to not spend more than they take in now, what makes you think they would be fiscally responsible enough to not spend more than they take in if taxes were higher?

If they had $70B more next year because of expiring tax cuts, they'd just spend that $70B on something else useless, like an increase in payments for social security or some other stupid military base or deployment. Those who assume they wouldn't increase spending to compensate are naive at best, but most likely just plain stupid.
 

mutz

Senior member
Jun 5, 2009
343
0
0
Idiots. TAXING cannot EVER reduce a deficit. A deficit is caused by spending more than you take in. If the government cannot be fiscally responsible enough to not spend more than they take in now, what makes you think they would be fiscally responsible enough to not spend more than they take in if taxes were higher?
relying on the past never opens up a clear future,
earlier steps doesn't imply later ones,
reality is not always and rarely does linear, what has been can be changed and it could as well be a new policy enforced by being aware to the earlier ones,
wise government would make the right and responsible decisions, it might not happen in an instance as some would like it to but in an on-going process which would eliminate the problem with time,
the world has just emerged from a massive financial crisis, that could imply an excuse to over-spending or make one understand that this could not have been tackled on spot,
the second seems more likely, no one would like to live with on going problems, it's neither good for politics ;).
 

ConstipatedVigilante

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2006
7,670
1
0
The solution isn't to entirely slash certain programs while leaving others intact. The entire budget needs to be downsized, from medicare to medicaid to SS to defense to all discretionary spending. Welfare programs should be completely cut - no welfare queens, only unemployment with strict requirements and extremely strict penalties for cheating the system.

The U.S. government needs to stop giving hand-outs to every poor soul and special interest group - it should provide the bare essentials of protection, a place to get food and sleep, and that's it. No free cars and phones for welfare recipients, and no being supported by the government when you have too many kids to take care of.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,330
126
relying on the past never opens up a clear future,
earlier steps doesn't imply later ones,
reality is not always and rarely does linear, what has been can be changed and it could as well be a new policy enforced by being aware to the earlier ones,
wise government would make the right and responsible decisions, it might not happen in an instance as some would like it to but in an on-going process which would eliminate the problem with time,
the world has just emerged from a massive financial crisis, that could imply an excuse to over-spending or make one understand that this could not have been tackled on spot,
the second seems more likely, no one would like to live with on going problems, it's neither good for politics ;).

And as long as people do not "feel" the problem of the insane debt/deficit we have ran up they won't care enough to make it one of the "big" political issues. Sure it gets a lot of lip service during election season but they never seem to actually do anything about it.

I say that taxes should go up along with the deficit, across the board on EVERYONE. The more the .gov spends the more it costs you. With the way damn near everything is going electronic it might actually be possible to implement on a quarterly basis or so. I guarantee you that people become real damn concerned with deficit spending and what its spent on then. I bet a months pay we would already be out of both Iraq and Afghan if this had been implemented from the start.
 

bhanson

Golden Member
Jan 16, 2004
1,749
0
76
No free cars and phones for welfare recipients, and no being supported by the government when you have too many kids to take care of.

That's another thing. Having kids when you're poor is irresponsible and I think the government should regulate this. Nothing good comes from bringing more kids up in poverty.

Mandate being above the poverty level before legally being allowed to have children? Or what about not being part of any government assistance programs?

Having kids is not an excuse to be poor because last I checked you're able to control if your zipper/legs stay shut.