13 shot in mass shooting in Chicago

[exdeath]

Yeah, but I don't buy that a ban would be inherently unworkable here either. Simply declaring something doesn't make it so.



The burden of proof is on anyone making a positive assertion. That's how debate works. The US has never tried to implement a ban on the type of guns that are frequently used in gun crimes so it's hard to say what the effects would be. We can say that other countries have been successful in doing so.

The conditions you've put forth in order to support a gun ban require a gun ban to be implemented to meet your standard for testing or proof, something you won't support until a test with those conditions is conducted. Before you call someone else's position asinine you should probably make sure yours isn't based on circular reasoning.

We had a ban from 94-04.

Didn't achieve anything but limit the economic freedom of gun owners and make resellers and scalpers rich on the pre ban panic.

Moving on. Lets try something else that does not have the words "ban" or "prohibited" in it.

 

[Venix]

Chicago had most certainly not 'functionally banned guns', although they did have a handgun ban in place. As has been discussed in numerous previous threads, a ban on an item is simply not enforceable when you have no border between areas where it is not banned.

Regardless, Australia is the frequently cited example of gun control being effective in the reduction of certain types of arms and (reasonably good) evidence to a corresponding reduction in homicides. This doesn't mean that it would necessarily work the same way in America, but it's hardly supportive of the idea that gun bans are inherently unworkable.

Here are the actual statistics from the Australian government.

The gun ban was in 96-97. I mention the date because there's no way to tell from the graphs. No massive decrease in homicides. No change in the trend line from before the ban.

Though I guess that is effective compared to Chicago and DC.

 

[Lithium381]

controlling their borders to the import of guns, which chicago claims is the problem that Australia supposedly did better. . .
australia can then also control their borders to the import of drugs . . .

 

[Generator]

It may be black on black crime, but its also white on black warfare. Every day the police in these major cities like Chicago find dozens of guns. You mean to tell me that not on person in these departments can't do some forensics on these weapons? What good is a city ban when you probably got some Republican gun running into the city of Chicago as a domestic war profiteer.

In Chicago finding a gun must be like finding a beat up tennis ball. You pick that up that ball and throw it I bet? So its no surprise that when you flood the inner cities with weapons that are probably sold for a loss to children and teenagers violence will happen. This is ethnic cleansing, in a mismash fucked up American capitalist type of way. The Republicans supply the guns, the Democrats contain the death. This unholy bargain is too evil to last.

 

[AHamick]

It may be black on black crime, but its also white on black warfare. Every day the police in these major cities like Chicago find dozens of guns. You mean to tell me that not on person in these departments can't do some forensics on these weapons? What good is a city ban when you probably got some Republican gun running into the city of Chicago as a domestic war profiteer.

In Chicago finding a gun must be like finding a beat up tennis ball. You pick that up that ball and throw it I bet? So its no surprise that when you flood the inner cities with weapons that are probably sold for a loss to children and teenagers violence will happen. This is ethnic cleansing, in a mismash fucked up American capitalist type of way. The Republicans supply the guns, the Democrats contain the death. This unholy bargain is too evil to last.

White on black warfare? Do you have any credible sources to back this up or are you just talking nonsense?

I remember reading this recently in the news...

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...cago-20130920_1_43-guns-lewisbey-illegal-sale

That's one hell of a dark "white man". Please check your racism at the door. Guns in Chicago are commonly straw purchased or stolen from law abiding gun owners. I have yet to hear of a firearm used in gang violence that was previously in government custody...

You make it sound like if you put a gun in the hands of a young inner city black youth, he is suddenly compelled to kill another black person with it, that sounds pretty damn silly to me.

The problem with Chicago's inner city violence is not Racism, or even guns for that matter. Its a lack of personal accountability and broken families and morals that are all too common in Chicago's "ghettos". These kids are raised not by responsible parents but the streets where easy money is the desired goal, that means sports, music, or drug sales.

so commonly kids turn to drug sales for quick easy money. They were never taught to respect human life so killing another rival over drug turf or something so petty as disrespecting them is rather simple and accepted in their new culture.

 

[Zargon]

thats an extra special post by generator

wow

 

[fskimospy]

Here are the actual statistics from the Australian government.

The gun ban was in 96-97. I mention the date because there's no way to tell from the graphs. No massive decrease in homicides. No change in the trend line from before the ban.

Though I guess that is effective compared to Chicago and DC.

Sure, but your post makes a number of dangerous assumptions. First, there's no particular reason to think that the trend line would have continued in such a fashion and second, the relatively low numbers of homicides in Australia total make statistically significant conclusions difficult to come by.

The results of the gun ban on suicide rates was/is dramatic. That's a huge plus. As I said before, the data on the effect on homicides is more mixed.

 

[Nintendesert]

I'll be honest, I really didn't give two shits when I saw the story break. I figured as soon as I saw the city, a park, late hour that it was gang related. What America needs to wake up and deal with is not the guns if it wants to reduce this kind of gangland violence, it's drugs.

Drugs are what's fueling all this and a lot of these street gangs are puppets operating for the Mexican cartels to keep and expand distribution networks in the USA. Americans LOVE drugs. Americans also love to be hypocrites and keep legal only certain drugs, the ones only rich people can afford while the poor people and their choice of drugs get shafted. (Prescription narcotics vs. street narcotics)

 

[Incorruptible]

Chicago proves gun control doesn't work and as long as they stay this way there will be more people being killed.

 

[Lithium381]

I'll be honest, I really didn't give two shits when I saw the story break. I figured as soon as I saw the city, a park, late hour that it was gang related. What America needs to wake up and deal with is not the guns if it wants to reduce this kind of gangland violence, it's drugs.

Drugs are what's fueling all this and a lot of these street gangs are puppets operating for the Mexican cartels to keep and expand distribution networks in the USA. Americans LOVE drugs. Americans also love to be hypocrites and keep legal only certain drugs, the ones only rich people can afford while the poor people and their choice of drugs get shafted. (Prescription narcotics vs. street narcotics)

Yep. Legalizing drugs would solve a lot of problems! If every Walgreens and CVS had heroin the drug dealers wouldn't be shooting for control of every street corner. The distribution is already in place. Supply and demand. The price for smack is high right now because you CAN'T just buy it at the corner market. But if it's available, price will go down and rivalry to control the market would decrease. More personal freedom.

Not that I think the government deserves it, but a 10% "sin" tax on those items would certainly help their bottom line and would be the ONLY incentive they'd have to do it. This could help offset the cost of mandatory sentencing and population guarantees for prisons. . . :whiste:

 

[Pray To Jesus]

LoL @ how stupid this post is, poster fails in more way than one.

to OP

troll troll troll your boat.. Gently down the stream...

geezz If we posted or whined over ever "reverse Racial " incident in the US alone...
CRIPES... We could shut down the WWW and what would Al Gore do?

I have yet to see the details on the DC navy yeard shooter... And lets be HONEST... I dot care. BUT HELL... Lets pretend it comes out what if a WHITE peson had walked into a mostly BLACK workplace and killed 12. How woudl the story have been spun?
Anyone see a race card potential? Not just some nucking futs guy snappping?
Here is the lineup, sadly as I see it.

Black killing black No news.
Black killing White... Small news.
White killing black... DEAR LORD Get Jessie, Al And EVERY news liberal you can and lets spin this story three ways to Sunday...

IF HALF the stuff that was "hidden" in the Trevor Martin case is true..... we as a nation.... Are doomed. On day one... I saw, what I was told was his FB page....
Suddenly... Day 2... It was GONE... Never to be seen again. And understand....
I am giving up 50% of stuff that NEVER made the mainstream...
His FB page... How the beverage he was carrying was CHANGED to something innocent and NOT an ingredient in making a "Street Drug" when combined with skittles...... Like I said.. In this media enviroment.. I will give up half....
Do you conceed the other half? No? thats your right. More power to ya. Yes? then lets hold hands and mourn what we are losing...

 

[Pray To Jesus]

Yeah, but I don't buy that a ban would be inherently unworkable here either. Simply declaring something doesn't make it so.

The burden of proof is on anyone making a positive assertion. That's how debate works. The US has never tried to implement a ban on the type of guns that are frequently used in gun crimes so it's hard to say what the effects would be. We can say that other countries have been successful in doing so.

The conditions you've put forth in order to support a gun ban require a gun ban to be implemented to meet your standard for testing or proof, something you won't support until a test with those conditions is conducted. Before you call someone else's position asinine you should probably make sure yours isn't based on circular reasoning.

We had a ban from 94-04.

Didn't achieve anything but limit the economic freedom of gun owners and make resellers and scalpers rich on the pre ban panic.

Moving on. Lets try something else that does not have the words "ban" or "prohibited" in it.

Dumb ass eskimospy is very ignorant of history and criminal behavior.

 

[Genx87]

Lol... The Rambo driven fantasies of a gun nut are indeed hilarious. Despite what you see in movies of Stallone mowing down hundreds of soldiers with machine guns, in real life you go to war with the government and you will get wiped off the face of the earth like Christopher Dorner.

I never understand this fantasy by liberals that going to war with the govt ends in disaster for the parties against the govt. Look around the world. Our military hasnt been able to subdue Afghanistan nor Iraq. Libya fell, Syria is in turmoil. And the biggest example we should have of going to war with the govt is right here at home. We went to war with our govt(british empire) and won. We werent wiped from the face of the earth.

Chris Dorner is a poor example as well. How is a govt to win a war against its people losing 2:1?

 

[BoberFett]

It may be black on black crime, but its also white on black warfare. Every day the police in these major cities like Chicago find dozens of guns. You mean to tell me that not on person in these departments can't do some forensics on these weapons? What good is a city ban when you probably got some Republican gun running into the city of Chicago as a domestic war profiteer.

In Chicago finding a gun must be like finding a beat up tennis ball. You pick that up that ball and throw it I bet? So its no surprise that when you flood the inner cities with weapons that are probably sold for a loss to children and teenagers violence will happen. This is ethnic cleansing, in a mismash fucked up American capitalist type of way. The Republicans supply the guns, the Democrats contain the death. This unholy bargain is too evil to last.

This shit is hilarious.

 

[BlueWolf47]

Dumb ass eskimospy is very ignorant of history and criminal behavior.

I don't think jesus would call someone that. But im sure he would be proud of the positive image you are promotin.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

I don't think jesus would call someone that. But im sure he would be proud of the positive image you are promotin.

Sigh, another ignoramus.

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law, justice and mercy and faith; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel! ... Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.

And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him. But turning and seeing his disciples, he rebuked Peter, and said, "Get behind me, Satan! For you are not on the side of God, but of men."

Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Romans 2:8
But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

If you think gun violence has reached a new high, you're far from alone. However, according to a new statistical survey, you’re also wrong. The study, published Tuesday by the Pew Research Center, says that gun homicides have declined by a full 49 percent since their peak in 1993. There has been an even steeper decline, 75 percent, in nonlethal crime victimization (with or without a gun) in the period between 1993 and 2010.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention statistics show there were 11,078 gun homicide deaths in the U.S. in 2010, compared with 18,253 deaths in 1993.
Nonfatal gun crimes dropped by 69 percent during that same period, according to a separate report from the Bureau of Justice Statistics that was also released Tuesday.
Interestingly, the Pew study finds that 56 percent of respondents believe that deaths caused by guns are more frequent than they were 20 years ago, compared with just 12 percent who accurately said the rates had declined.
Still, there are some interesting findings in the study that do appear to back up fears about gun violence. While describing more recent numbers as “statistically insignificant,” Pew does acknowledge that there appears to be a small uptick in gun violence numbers since 2008. In addition, the study found that a vast majority of the drop in homicides took place in the 1990s.
So, who or what is to credit for that decline? The roaring economic boom that took place through the second half of the '90s? The Federal Assault Weapons Ban in effect from late 1994 through 2004? The dramatic increase in incarceration rates? (A controversial 2001 paper says that legalized abortion is at least partially responsible for declining crime rates.)
Pew says the data is inconclusive, writing: “Researchers have studied the decline in firearm crime and violent crime for many years, and though there are theories to explain the decline, there is no consensus among those who study the issue as to why it happened.”
“It’s hard to know what’s going on there,” D’Vera Cohn, senior writer at the Pew Research Center, told the Los Angeles Times.
Another interesting statistic from the study concerns gun ownership and homicide rates in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world. “Compared with other developed nations, the U.S. has a higher homicide rate and higher rates of gun ownership, but not higher rates for all other crimes,” the Pew study says.
Other findings from the Pew Research Center study:

• Men and boys make up the vast majority (84 percent in 2010) of gun homicide victims. The firearm homicide rate also is more than five times as high for males of all ages (6.2 deaths per 100,000 people) as it is for females (1.1 deaths per 100,000 people).
• By age group, 69 percent of gun homicide victims in 2010 were 18-40, an age range that was 31 percent of the population that year. Gun homicide rates also are highest for adults ages 18-24 and 25-40.
• A disproportionate share of gun homicide victims are black (55 percent in 2010), despite blacks making up just 13 percent of the population.

 

[Lithium381]

If you think gun violence has reached a new high, you're far from alone. However, according to a new statistical survey, you’re also wrong. The study, published Tuesday by the Pew Research Center, says that gun homicides have declined by a full 49 percent since their peak in 1993. There has been an even steeper decline, 75 percent, in nonlethal crime victimization (with or without a gun) in the period between 1993 and 2010.
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention statistics show there were 11,078 gun homicide deaths in the U.S. in 2010, compared with 18,253 deaths in 1993.
Nonfatal gun crimes dropped by 69 percent during that same period, according to a separate report from the Bureau of Justice Statistics that was also released Tuesday.
Interestingly, the Pew study finds that 56 percent of respondents believe that deaths caused by guns are more frequent than they were 20 years ago, compared with just 12 percent who accurately said the rates had declined.
Still, there are some interesting findings in the study that do appear to back up fears about gun violence. While describing more recent numbers as “statistically insignificant,” Pew does acknowledge that there appears to be a small uptick in gun violence numbers since 2008. In addition, the study found that a vast majority of the drop in homicides took place in the 1990s.
So, who or what is to credit for that decline? The roaring economic boom that took place through the second half of the '90s? The Federal Assault Weapons Ban in effect from late 1994 through 2004? The dramatic increase in incarceration rates? (A controversial 2001 paper says that legalized abortion is at least partially responsible for declining crime rates.)
Pew says the data is inconclusive, writing: “Researchers have studied the decline in firearm crime and violent crime for many years, and though there are theories to explain the decline, there is no consensus among those who study the issue as to why it happened.”
“It’s hard to know what’s going on there,” D’Vera Cohn, senior writer at the Pew Research Center, told the Los Angeles Times.
Another interesting statistic from the study concerns gun ownership and homicide rates in the U.S. compared to the rest of the world. “Compared with other developed nations, the U.S. has a higher homicide rate and higher rates of gun ownership, but not higher rates for all other crimes,” the Pew study says.
Other findings from the Pew Research Center study:

• Men and boys make up the vast majority (84 percent in 2010) of gun homicide victims. The firearm homicide rate also is more than five times as high for males of all ages (6.2 deaths per 100,000 people) as it is for females (1.1 deaths per 100,000 people).
• By age group, 69 percent of gun homicide victims in 2010 were 18-40, an age range that was 31 percent of the population that year. Gun homicide rates also are highest for adults ages 18-24 and 25-40.
• A disproportionate share of gun homicide victims are black (55 percent in 2010), despite blacks making up just 13 percent of the population.

They won't hear you. Your post reeks of facts and statistics. You need more emotional appeal if you want them to listen.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

They won't hear you. Your post reeks of facts and statistics. You need more emotional appeal if you want them to listen.

:thumbsup:

 

[sm625]

13 in chicago is hardly a mass shooting.