120mm, 140mm or 200mm fan, pretty high CFM, white noise

[Muse]

Want a 120mm, 140mm or 200mm 12v fan, not for my desktop (which already has one), but to get some ventilation in my smallish bedroom. The room is around 90 square feet, around 8.5' x 8.5', is on the 2nd floor, so it gets warm late in the day and is slow to cool at night. I used to leave my screened window open and this let some of the cool evening air in, but I installed a window air conditioner last week, taking away the open window option. I don't want to have the air conditioner on all night. The compressor's either working or it isn't, and when it isn't the fan just sucks air from the room and pushes it back in the room... no option to suck in outside air. Besides, the air conditioner's fan is just too loud when I'm trying to sleep, even on the low setting (it has high and low, but there's not much difference in terms of noise). I figure I'll use the air conditioner occasionally to cool the room quickly but for sleep time it really isn't great.

So, my idea is to remove the accordion panels from the air conditioner and put a solid panel in with a 120mm, 140mm or 200mm fan attached, which will actually suck outside air into the room. I set this up last night (using Owens Corning film covered 1/2" insulation), but the fan I have is too noisy, a Panaflo 120mm. I used a 12v wall wart I have that was evidently for a Panasonic cordless phone. The Panaflo fan, however,while pushing a lot of air, has a pretty loud distinctive hum.

What I want is a fan (maybe 2) that pushes a LOT of air but isn't grating in terms of noise. Some noise is OK, in fact I want some noticeable noise, just not noise that would hurt my sleep pattern, IOW white noise! Thing is, my neighborhood can be pretty noisy, so white noise is a good thing for me here. Before I put in the air conditioner in warmer weather I'd leave the screened window open and wear ear plugs to combat the neighborhood noise. For the fan(s), pretty much the more air pushed the better, not sure how much of what kind of noise I want -- enough to mask the neighborhood noise, but not so much that it wakes me up.

Can I get suggestion(s) for fans that push a lot of air and make what might be the right amount of "white noise?"

 

[Blain]

A much cheaper and effective alternative to your neighborhood noise problem is simply, buy a box of 3M Classic ear plugs.
Classics are the best I've used. When inserted correctly, they block out lots of ambient noise.
All you're left with is listening to your own thoughts.

BTW, they don't draw in dust or use any power.

 

[Muse]

A much cheaper and effective alternative to your neighborhood noise problem is simply, buy a box of 3M Classic ear plugs.
Classics are the best I've used. When inserted correctly, they block out lots of ambient noise.
All you're left with is listening to your own thoughts.

BTW, they don't draw in dust or use any power.

I used to use those (or similar), have used many types in my effort to thwart my 24/7 TV/Video game fanatic neighbors. The best I've found are the putty-like silicone wads sold at pharmacies. They are a bit of a nuisance to put in when you are hitting the wall ("I want to go to sleep!"), but I've used them most nights the last several months (when my neighbors went back to leaving their windows open all night).

Thing is (read my OP carefully), with the air conditioner I've recently installed I don't have an open window, so the room stays too warm for comfort after I hit the sack. The fan's job is not just to provide white noise, but to draw cool evening air into the room, which is typically 12-15 degrees warmer than the outside air.

Right now I'm thinking that the Antec TriCool 120mm Blue LED Cooling Fan with 3-Speed Switch might be a good choice... or maybe two of them. Not sure my 12v 500ma wall wart would drive two of them, well not at high speed.

I've spent the last few hours reading reviews of 120mm fans. Actually, I could use a 140mm or even a 200mm fan. They might be a better idea.

Suggestions appreciated!

 

[Ayah]

could run san ace 109p1212h401 *2 or *3 and just tweak the voltage to your desired level of white noise (9v seems passably quiet for one of them). you could also chose the 9s1212h401, which is slightly quieter, but fairly expensive and I've yet to find a cheap trusted source of it, you'll find it's cousin 9s1212h403 in the higher end seasonic power supplies (which I think is really a 9s1212h4011, maybe binned or somehow modified without changing performance characteristics).

when I swept the specified operating range of the 109p1212h401 from 6v to 13v, I didn't hear anything other than airflow noise (though airflow noise could be swamping any other noise at >9V), but that's purely anecdotal evidence. then again, san ace are known for very smooth bearings.

if you look around, you should be able to find 109p1212h401's for 10-15$/u

 

[Muse]

Now I'm thinking more in terms of a 140mm or even 200mm fan. There's enough room for those, so why not? Again, my priorities are, in order:

1. Move lots of air
2. White noise, but not too much, and very pure and soothing so I can sleep!

 

[dma0991]

Trying to suck air would not solve the problem entirely as it only mixes the cool air with the hot room air, to create a warm environment. What you should actually do is to have an exhaust. It sounds counter intuitive but an exhaust will remove the hot air from the room. Since your room can't be a vacuum, cold air will be drawn into your room from wherever there may be an opening where air could enter, due to the negative pressure.

Using PC fans is a waste as they're meant to move air from a smaller volume of a case rather than an entire room. I recommend getting a variable speed 12" exhaust fan instead to allow you adjust its speed to suit your noise level.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Optimus-6-...l-Fan/16480934

 

[Muse]

Trying to suck air would not solve the problem entirely as it only mixes the cool air with the hot room air, to create a warm environment. What you should actually do is to have an exhaust. It sounds counter intuitive but an exhaust will remove the hot air from the room. Since your room can't be a vacuum, cold air will be drawn into your room from wherever there may be an opening where air could enter, due to the negative pressure.

Using PC fans is a waste as they're meant to move air from a smaller volume of a case rather than an entire room. I recommend getting a variable speed 12" exhaust fan instead to allow you adjust its speed to suit your noise level.

I guess there's validity to a lot of what you say. Setting up an exhaust fan won't be easily done unless it's to exhaust room air back out the window (opened window) to the outdoors. Well, that's doable, I could have two fans, one pushing air into the room, the other pushing room air back out.

Now, using what I have last night, I found that over a ~20 minute period, a single Panaflo 120mm fan did manage to decrease the differential between the room temperature and the outside temperature by 2 degrees F. Outside it was 61, inside it was 73. After 20 minutes it was 61 outside, it was 71 inside. After another ~20 minutes nothing had changed. However, it felt somewhat cooler anyway because that Panaflo fan pushed a lot of air and I could feel it.

Do you think that 2 fans blowing in would be less efficient in cooling the room than one blowing in and one blowing out?

The fans I'm seeing online don't seem to exactly fit the bill. There are some window fans, I'll keep looking, haven't given them a close look. The maximum width of the fan must not exceed 19" or so, so this Bionaire BWF0522M Thin Window Fan won't work.

I could get a couple of fans, 120mm or 140mm and experiment with having both push air in and with having one push in, the other push out. Could work up a little chart and see what works best.

 

[Muse]

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Optimus-6-...l-Fan/16480934

That appears to be not really mountable in a window. If it comes to having a fan sitting in my door opening I already have some major air push, one being a big old box fan that's over 2 feet wide and high, has adjustable speeds. On high it reminds you of being at the airport. But it's not the kind of thing you want running when you are trying to sleep. Except maybe on the hottest of nights on the low setting. It rarely gets that hot around here.

I'll poke around Walmart.com and see what else they have. I periodically order nonfat dry milk powder from them, more than $50 and get free shipping. I could tack on a fan...

Looking at the window fan offerings at Walmart and Amazon, nothing looks usable for me. My window opening is about 13" x 19". The dual fan window fans all require 22+" in the largest dimension. Looks like I'll have to do my DIY thing, maybe with a couple of fans, one exhausting the other with ingress. I've done many such projects, I'm pretty creative, can be innovative, have lots of tools and hardware. It's really hard to know how to best do it, though, because I have only people's testimony online to go on as to the air pushing abilities and noise emitting characteristics of the great variety of 120, 140 and even 200mm fans out there. There are so many. CFM numbers published are just anybody's guess for accuracy. I've seen it said that they are a joke. Any one person's quiet is another person's racket. Then there's the longevity of the fans to consider. A fan that sounds fine today may sound horrible in the year or two. Ball bearing fans presumably are not going to have this happen to them, at least not in a few years, but most fans don't have them. Most are sleeve or rifle bearings. I'm going to use it vertically, so ball bearing isn't essential, still I don't want to be wondering if the noise is getting worse if I can help it. Fan twin packs are common at Amazon, maybe I'll get one of those. I've been reading a LOT of reviews.

 

[dma0991]

I could have two fans, one pushing air into the room, the other pushing room air back out.

Do you think that 2 fans blowing in would be less efficient in cooling the room than one blowing in and one blowing out?

You can do it with a single exhaust if you're restricting the volume of air to only your room. Say that you've opened your room door. The exchange of hot room air to cool outside air becomes slower as now you have to remove air outside of your room as well.

You can use PC fans to get some improvement but they are never usually the most cost effective option nor is it the best in terms of performance versus an actual 12" or larger fan. Try finding wall (can be used on windows) mounted exhaust fans from eBay. Assuming that you're not living in an apartment, get ceiling mounted ones if there's no wall/window space.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

That appears to be not really mountable in a window. .

Sounds like you are handy. Cut a piece of plywood that will fit the opening. Take the cage cover off any sub 12" house fan. Lay it face down on a piece of plywood, mark holes for the screws you just took off the cage cover. Cut circle, drill holes, mount fan.

Trying to make computer case fans work for your project is silly IMHO.

 

[SithSolo1]

Frozencpu.com has a wide fan selection, might want to look around there.

 

[TakBaseTech]

You can use PC fans to get some improvement but they are never usually the most cost effective option nor is it the best in terms of performance versus an actual 12" or larger fan.

This. You're barking up the wrong tree, OP.

 

[ElFenix]

how difficult is it to remove the A/C?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-9-in-Twin-Window-Fan-FW23-A1/100663385

 

[Muse]

Sounds like you are handy. Cut a piece of plywood that will fit the opening. Take the cage cover off any sub 12" house fan. Lay it face down on a piece of plywood, mark holes for the screws you just took off the cage cover. Cut circle, drill holes, mount fan.

Trying to make computer case fans work for your project is silly IMHO.

Are the cage cover's readily removable? I'm handy for sure. Instead of plywood I'd probably go for Owens-Corning 1/2" film covered insulation material. I have more than 1/2 of an 8x4' sheet of it on hand. I could use plywood, sure.

I'm looking at, for instance (based on your suggestion), Honeywell TurboForce Fan, HT-900. That has 3 speeds, some people there are using it for white noise. Do you think I could remove the cage and pin the guts to a flat panel (i.e. plywood or insulation)?

 

[Muse]

how difficult is it to remove the A/C?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-9-in-Twin-Window-Fan-FW23-A1/100663385

The AC pops right out after I remove a couple of screws that hold a little stop in place that holds the sash in place.

I could indeed remove that AC. I could move it to my computer/home theater room, which gets pretty warm sometimes what with also being upstairs and having heat generating equipment (a desktop and a projector). This is indeed an option worth considering, even getting an additional AC if I decide I want to keep one in the bedroom for occasional use. However, if the window fan(s) pretty much resolve my warm nights sleep issue, the AC would be better placed in that media room.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Are the cage cover's readily removable? I'm handy for sure. Instead of plywood I'd probably go for Owens-Corning 1/2" film covered insulation material. I have more than 1/2 of an 8x4' sheet of it on hand. I could use plywood, sure.

I'm looking at, for instance (based on your suggestion), Honeywell TurboForce Fan, HT-900. That has 3 speeds, some people there are using it for white noise. Do you think I could remove the cage and pin the guts to a flat panel (i.e. plywood or insulation)?

Yes. Most fan front covers are easily removable. Usually 3 screws are all that hold the cover on. The rear section of the cage at the back of the fan is usually screwed to the motor. Can't tell from picture if that fan would work though.

 

[Muse]

Yes. Most fan front covers are easily removable. Usually 3 screws are all that hold the cover on. The rear section of the cage at the back of the fan is usually screwed to the motor. Can't tell from picture if that fan would work though.

Thanks, I'm apt to order that 3 speed fan I linked, the price isn't too high at ~$15 pre-tax. What the heck, if it can't be mounted in the window I can (if I don't ruin it trying to mount it) use it as a sit-on-the-bureau fan in the bedroom, principally for white noise.

My thinking now is having a cooling + white noise solution might be overly ambitious. Last night I woke up in the middle of the night and it was a little too warm for me. My digital thermometer said 70.4 F. I turned on the Panaflo 120mm fan I have mounted in the window and after ~1/2 hour it said 66.1 F. So that does do a fair job, but it really makes a fair racket. I already had my silicone ear plugs jammed in, so I could sleep with it, but I was hoping for a solution that wouldn't necessitate the ear plugs. I think that may be too much to hope for. Maybe I'd get used to a fan or fan combo that would provide enough white noise and wouldn't disturb my sleep. Assuming not, I figure I could get a couple of 200mm fans, mount them in the window, wire them in parallel, either have them both pushing air in or have one push in the other push out. I don't know which would cool the room more efficiently (anyone venture an opinion?). I figure the white noise provided by two 200mm fans, at least the one I'm looking at at Amazon, will be close to negligible and I'd have to either resort to the ear plugs or maybe that $15 table fan, which has 3 speeds.

Edit: One answered question on the ~$15 3 speed table fan indicates that my hopes of removing the cage and mounting the fan guts in the window may not work out:

I do not believe it could be disassembled. I know for certain the housing is glued together because I went to unscrew it to see why the motor seized after using it lightly (it was only on four times).

This at http://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-HT-900C-Tabletop-Air-Circulator-Black/forum/Fx2K0VD6D56JZXH/-/2/ref=cm_cd_ql_psf_ql_pg2?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B001R1RXUG&cdAnchor=B001R1RXUG&cdSort=newestdoc

Most people say it's an excellent fan, the person quoted above, however, had a very bad experience.

 

[Muse]

I got my fan order from Amazon. The Honeywell 12" 3 speed fan for ~$15 is a nice fan, but at lowest setting is still fairly loud. I could get used to it, I guess, but it's not great. The power usage is:

High speed: 32w
Medium speed: 28w
Low speed: 24w

However, I installed my 200mm Cooler Master "silent" fans yesterday evening and the results are spectacular. I could hardly be happier with the results. They justify all the grinding, the uncertainty, the work I did researching the alternatives, the thinking, the final decisions. I'm going to post a picture of the result in a few minutes.

Last night, after a day that was just like the previous, the temperature in the room after about 5 hours with the fans running (drawing air in) was about 6 F degrees lower than the previous night. IOW, the room was much cooler, very tolerable for sleep (i.e. 64 F). I went downstairs and for the first time ever it was warmer downstairs than in my bedroom (by 3 degrees), and I've been living here many years. I actually turned the fans off at that point and I was fine.

Equally spectacular is the fact that the white noise factor is perfect. The "silent" fans give off some noise, and the sum of the two fans amounts to a white noise factor about equivalent to that supplied by my urban environment, what with highways, city traffic, airplanes and whatever other random sounds contribute. So, the sum total of all that with the fans' noise are a pretty optimal buffer to the annoyance of my immediate neighbors. I think I can stop wearing my silicone ear plugs as long as I have the fans going. In cooler weather, when the fans aren't needed to cool the room, I figure to attach circular panels over the fans both to block transfer of air and sounds.

Thar she blows:

Note the 1/8" screening in the custom made screen that fits in the space not filled by the air conditioner. The panel holding the fans is screwed to the thin wooden slats on the perimeter of the screen. You can see a little light between the AC and the fan system. I'm going to stuff any spaces with pieces pulled from cotton balls for added thermal insulation.

The two 200mm Cooler Master fans draw in combination 6-7 watts. I have them powered by a variable voltage wall wart I've had for many years, sitting unused. It's capacity is 13 watts, so the 6 watts shown by my Kill-a-Watt should be no problem. I have a switch by my bed to turn them off with ease (switched extension cord).