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11 year Old boy shoots his fathers pregnant girlfriend in the back of the head

Wheezer

Diamond Member

For a while men were going into fast food chains killing patrons, then they changed up and it seemed like every other day someone would go into work and shoot everyone. Then there was news story after news story of kids going to school shooting the place up, now there have been several stories in the news including this one about young kids killing their family members, and we'll probably see more of these.

why does it seem that we go through these types of trends?

WAMPUM, Pa. ? Fifth-grader Jordan Brown boarded the bus and headed to school like he does most other mornings in this rural western Pennsylvania community.

But Friday was no typical morning. Before he left his rented farmhouse, authorities say, the 11-year-old fatally shot his father's pregnant fiancee in the back of the head as she lay in bed. He then put his youth model 20-gauge shotgun back in his room and went out to catch his bus, police say.

Brown was charged Saturday as an adult in the death of 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk, who was eight months pregnant, Lawrence County District Attorney John Bongivengo said. Houk's fetus died within minutes due to a lack of oxygen, Lawrence County Coroner Russell Noga said.

The death and charges against Brown caught family and friends by surprise and left Wampum, about 45 miles northwest of Pittsburgh, to ponder what would possess a boy to allegedly shoot someone.

Houk's family and friends, who gathered at her parents' house Saturday night, told The Associated Press that there had been past problems with the boy.

"He actually told my son that he wanted to do that to her," Houk's brother-in-law, Jason Kraner said. "There was an issue with jealousy."

Pennsylvania State Police found Houk's body after her 4-year-old daughter told tree cutters on the property she thought her mother was dead, Bongivengo said.

The boy told police there was a black truck on the property that morning ? possibly the man who feeds the cows ? sending investigators to follow a false lead for about five hours, Bongivengo said. Inconsistencies in Brown's description of the truck led police to re-interview Houk's 7-year-old daughter, who implicated the boy in the killing, Bongivengo said. State troopers came to get the boy at school.

"She didn't actually eyewitness the shooting. She saw him with what she believed to be a shotgun and heard a loud bang," Bongivengo said. The gun was found in a "location we believe to be in the defendant's bedroom."

Brown has been arraigned and was being held in the Lawrence County Jail, with a preliminary hearing scheduled for Thursday.

"An 11-year-old kid ? what would give him the motive to shoot someone?" Houk's father Jack said. "Maybe he was just jealous of my daughter and the baby and thought he would be overpowered."

Defense attorney Dennis Elisco said he plans to ask Monday for the boy to be released on bail and for the case to moved to juvenile court. Elisco and police said they had no clear motive for the shooting.

Elisco said he is waiting to see physical evidence that ties his young client to the killing.

"I don't think he knows what's going on," he said. "I walked out of there thinking he was innocent. I believe Jordan did not do this."

The boy's father, Christopher Brown, is "a mess" and had no prior indication his son had a problem with Houk, Elisco said.

"He's in a state of actual shock and disbelief," he said.

The shotgun used is designed for children and has a shorter arm and such weapons do not have to be registered, Bongivengo said. Jack Houk, 57, said the boy and his father used to practice shooting behind their farmhouse, and the two enjoyed going hunting together.
 
as much as i hate to say it, look no further than modern video games(murder simulators)+add a dash of neglect at home/some bullying at school and some resentment /armchair psychology.

 
Sad, but right now my only concern is this situation will fuel the gun-haters.

And rightly so. It tells the story of a man who taught his boy properly about gun use and then the kid turned right around and did something aweful with it.
 
Originally posted by: between
Originally posted by: Wheezer
Originally posted by: between
why is an 11 year old being tried under adult laws?

premeditated murder...he should be.

so just because the crime is horrible, then suddenly a child is treated as an adult? that is absurd... not to mention unjust... and no doubt a violation of a bunch of international agreements on how to treat children.

I never mentioned how horrible the crime was.

He did not just spontaneously think to do this...he planned it. which means he put thought into it, he knew that killing her was wrong and knew that there would be consequences which is why he did it when his father was not home, the other children were in bed and the gf was asleep. Add to that he intentionally mis directed the police...which shows an ability to reason out his actions and attempt to get away with a crime he knew was wrong and severe.

The fact he put this much thought into the crime and his actions after the fact prove that he deserves a more serious punishment than what the juvenile system can provide.

There are only 2 choices...try him as a kid or try him as an adult. Our system does not offer an 'in between' form of punishment.

and no doubt a violation of a bunch of international agreements on how to treat children.

really, so we should change our laws to fit "international agreements"......you're funny.
 
Originally posted by: between
Originally posted by: Wheezer
Originally posted by: between
why is an 11 year old being tried under adult laws?

premeditated murder...he should be.

so just because the crime is horrible, then suddenly a child is treated as an adult? that is absurd... not to mention unjust... and no doubt a violation of a bunch of international agreements on how to treat children.

"Won't someone think of the children!" - Another article had said he's being charged as an adult because the law says that even children charged facing those charges should stand trial as an adult. Now I want you to point out how a trial by jury goes against ANY international agreements. Find just one example.
 
Originally posted by: between
Originally posted by: Wheezer
Originally posted by: between
why is an 11 year old being tried under adult laws?

premeditated murder...he should be.

so just because the crime is horrible, then suddenly a child is treated as an adult? that is absurd... not to mention unjust... and no doubt a violation of a bunch of international agreements on how to treat children.

It's far harder to deal with what legal action to take after the fact, than what security action to take during it. If I see someone with a gun about to commit a crime, I don't much care if they're 6 or 60, if they don't drop the weapon they are going to die.

But once they do I'm not sure I want kids treated like any other hardened criminal...I know they really don't have the developed psychology of an adult, so treating them as one just doesn't work.

Then again, if they truly have mental problems, or are simply 'bad seeds', then leniency will only result in more abuses to innocents once they get out.
 
As an adult, I think the father has some responsibly in this. after all, he bought the gun for his son, and did not secure it or the ammo.
 
Originally posted by: between
Originally posted by: Savij
Another article had said he's being charged as an adult because the law says that even children charged facing those charges should stand trial as an adult

whatever. for justice to be served, a different standard must be applied to children. treating them as adults in the court is about vengeance, not justice.

funny no one has commented on culpability of the father, who provided a deadly weapon to a child.

So if someone is under 18, they should be allowed to go on killing sprees? Do they get bonus points for head shots?

These children are being tried as adults because for many years being under 18 was a free pass. You could literally commit murder and get away with it. Now people are being held accountable regardless of their age. If they are too young to be held accountable, let the courts decide.
 
Originally posted by: between
Originally posted by: Wheezer
He did not just spontaneously think to do this...he planned it. which means he put thought into it, he knew that killing her was wrong and knew that there would be consequences

These are actually all reasons why the kid should be put to trial under separate arrangements/ law for children as opposed to adults.

Originally posted by: Wheezer
really, so we should change our laws to fit "international agreements"......you're funny.

I'd be interested to know which international agreements the US is actually party to re: the treatment of children, and whether those agreements are met. Most civilised/ first world countries seem to have a separate legal system for kids. Presumably because the mind of a child is so different from an adult mind with respect to things like ability to predict consequences, knowledge of right and wrong, general levels of maturity, etc.

a guy goes to rob a liquor store, now he KNOWS that robbing the store is wrong and he'll face jail time....doing it with a gun...thats prison. He also knows that if he shoots anyone he'll end up doing life in prison...however he could also face the death penalty. He never considers that possibility though. He just knows 2 things:

robbery is wrong.
shooting people is wrong.


getting caught=jail that is all he thinks about.

So, he commits the robbery kills the clerk, gets caught, goes to trial and the jury gives him the death penalty.

Should his attorney argue that it's not fair because his client had not considered that outcome when the initiated the crime? should the criminal get out of the death penalty because he had not considered that he might get a needle?

so because this child did not consider that he would get tried as an adult he should be given a pass?...did you ever stop to think that he was counting on people like yourself to come to his rescue so he would not be tried as an adult?

lets not forget who the victim is here.....this kid was on the opposite end of the the discharge...for a reason....he rationed it out that way, he also did it at a time when no witnesses would be around and he mis-directed the cops after the fact....he made up a story.

That shows cognitive reasoning and forethought....the same process adults use...you know those that are only 7 years his senior.

you are assuming that an 11 year old is incapable of these actions, you are assuming that his only crime in this was pulling the trigger....if you analyze it, there is much more to it than that...and if he used the same processes an adult does to commit a crime then why not treat him as one?
 
Originally posted by: dawp
As an adult, I think the father has some responsibly in this. after all, he bought the gun for his son, and did not secure it or the ammo.

QFT..it's all about parent's responsibility. I am not about banning anything due to idiots killing themselves/others. It's up to us to enforce proper use and guidance.

The video game angle is a good one...however, most do not know how to argue it. They like to make broad statements that ALL KIDS that PLAY X GAME will be DANGEROUS. It's clearly not the case.

For one, most of these types of games are rated mature/over 13...yet dumbasses buy these games for their 5-6year olds and then do not monitor the childs interpretation of it.

Sooner or later one kids going to think it's the right way to settle a disagreement and go get daddy's AR15 out of the closet and take on his classmates. As adults its almost impossible to perceive how such outlandish things can mold a young mind. It's easy to brainwash if you start at day one even if everything else out there is contradictory to your teachings...it's scary stuff.

Ultimately I feel the parents should be held at a more higher responsibility level in these more and more common crimes. Once other dumbasses see their friends get thrown in jail, they will start being parents.
 
Originally posted by: spaceman
as much as i hate to say it, look no further than modern video games(murder simulators)+add a dash of neglect at home/some bullying at school and some resentment /armchair psychology.

Every formal study that has been done on the subject disagrees with you. Violent video games do not influence the player to behave violently.
 
Originally posted by: shortylickens
Sad, but right now my only concern is this situation will fuel the gun-haters.

And rightly so. It tells the story of a man who taught his boy properly about gun use and then the kid turned right around and did something aweful with it.

Yeah, but how often does this happen? Just to make numbers up: If the parents that do responsibly teach their kids about guns then one in 100m do something like this...but if they do not it is 1 in 100k. I don't see how the father can really be held at fault. He taught his kid responsibly and it still happened.


I think people here want to assign blame for every little thing and just cannot believe that shit happens.
 
WTF, the shotgun wasn't secured?

And wow, a 57 year old man with 26 year old fiancee? Talk about robbing the cradle.
 
Originally posted by: spaceman
as much as i hate to say it, look no further than modern video games(murder simulators)+add a dash of neglect at home/some bullying at school and some resentment /armchair psychology.

Oh shut the hell up.
 
Originally posted by: Dacalo
WTF, the shotgun wasn't secured?

And wow, a 57 year old man with 26 year old fiancee? Talk about robbing the cradle.

Read the article. Even if it was, the shotgun was a youth model. It was his and it was in his room.
 
The kid was fucked up. He might have stabbed the girl friend if he didn't have a gun. Should we ban knives now?
 
Originally posted by: Dacalo
WTF, the shotgun wasn't secured?

And wow, a 57 year old man with 26 year old fiancee? Talk about robbing the cradle.

Who cares if it was not? If you take the kid hunting regularly and he is regularly handling it there is no reason to take it away from him...it only serves to make a kid more curious about it.
 
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