1000 Years of Darkness

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
2,161
126
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMsdEkGQL0U&NR=1

I saw this last night and it's facinating. How repression caused us to be held from advancing for hundreds of years. If it weren't for government, religion, and politics, we'd be over 500 years more advanced right now! Stupid Romans took away my flying car :|
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
What's sad is that it's still happening. If it isn't politicians or religions it's special interests and corporations. I can list off at least a dozen items off the top of my head that are being repressed due to the above four influences.
 

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
41,920
2,161
126
Originally posted by: dug777
There's little as futile as whining about what might have been ;)

It's not about whining, it's a warning about how devestaing this behavior can be.
 

PlatinumGold

Lifer
Aug 11, 2000
23,168
0
71
Originally posted by: dug777
There's little as futile as whining about what might have been ;)

hmmm, so there is no credence to "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" (paraphrased).

 

Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
14
81
It's human nature - we are who we are. So yeah, no point in crying over spilled milk. Although I would like my own Millenium Falcon. How bout it, science?
 

luv2liv

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
3,500
94
91
Zeus and Helen are classical myths, an era of religion loooonggg gone.
i wonder when Joe, Mary, and Jesus will be gone too!
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
It's still continuing. Stem cell research?


edit: Ahh, I see that the video is related to repressing knowledge, not to preventing new knowledge from being gained. In that case, it's still continuing: demands for the removal of evolution from the curriculum.
 

MotF Bane

No Lifer
Dec 22, 2006
60,801
10
0
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Stupid Romans took away my flying car :|

I think the blame lies more with the Christians. The single largest destruction of knowledge was the burning of the Library of Alexandria. Besides, the Romans encouraged development.

 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
and this suprises anyone?

all you have to do is watch the news. places are trying to stop the teaching of evolution. They wont allow some research etc. EVEN beyond that is the patenting of teh human cell structure and such.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
19
81
Originally posted by: Fritzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMsdEkGQL0U&NR=1

I saw this last night and it's facinating. How repression caused us to be held from advancing for hundreds of years. If it weren't for government, religion, and politics, we'd be over 500 years more advanced right now! Stupid Romans took away my flying car :|

Don't forget war. The Mideast was once a major center of learning and trade. Islam had no qualms about acquiring information from civilizations and cultures which Christianity regarded as "pagan" and thus of no use. The former gathered a great deal of useful materials, and made significant advances in science. Some examples I found interesting were a kind of cataract surgery, and what we now regard as basic medical practice: quarantining sick patients in a hospital. Keep the really sick people away from others, and you're less likely to have everyone in the hospital contract the illness.
Unfortunately, that region fell under constant attacks from Mongols. So much knowledge was ultimately destroyed, and so many resources needed to be diverted to rebuilding. And of there were the Crusaders from Europe.

War doesn't only destroy knowledge, but resources which could otherwise be devoted to the sciences, and advancing humanity are instead devoted to reconstruction efforts, but also to research more efficient ways of destroying and killing.



Originally posted by: allisolm
Gotta say it.

"Help! Help! I'm being repressed!"
But you're a moderator, isn't that what you do anyway?
(Oh god, oh god, please don't kill me!!!!);)
Wait, my bad anyway - that's "oppress." :D


Originally posted by: waggy
and this suprises anyone?

all you have to do is watch the news. places are trying to stop the teaching of evolution. They wont allow some research etc. EVEN beyond that is the patenting of teh human cell structure and such.
Or even things like the age of the Universe, or the expansion of the Universe, or the idea that the Universe may well one day (in the very distant future) peter out into nothingness, as all of the particles eventually decay into tiny bursts of the electromagnetic energy they were formed from.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Originally posted by: MotF Bane
Originally posted by: Fritzo
Stupid Romans took away my flying car :|

I think the blame lies more with the Christians. The single largest destruction of knowledge was the burning of the Library of Alexandria. Besides, the Romans encouraged development.

It's all fun and games to blame christians but the truth is a little different.

The Serapeum once housed part of the Library, but it is not known how many, if any, books were contained in it at the time of destruction. Notably, the passage by Socrates Scholasticus, unlike that of Ammianus Marcellinus, makes no clear reference to a library or library contents being destroyed, only to religious objects being destroyed. The pagan author Eunapius of Sardis witnessed the demolition, and though he detested Christians, and was a scholar, his account of the Serapeum's destruction makes no mention of any library. In short, there is simply no evidence whatsoever to support the contention that Christians destroyed the Library. Paulus Orosius admitted in the sixth book of his History against the pagans: "Today there exist in temples book chests which we ourselves have seen, and, when these temples were plundered, these, we are told, were emptied by our own men in our time, which, indeed, is a true statement." But Orosius is not here discussing the Serapeum, nor is it clear who "our own men" are (the phrase may mean no more than "men of our time," since we know from contemporary sources that pagans also occasionally plundered temples).


Most of the knowledge of the ancient world was stored in Baghdad during the Islamic golden age and it was destroyed by the Mongols. They threw so many books into the Tigris river that it turned black from the ink. That set the whole middle east and western world back a few centuries and it was done by Mongols not christians.

Sack of Baghdad House of Wisdom

As far as damage done, the sack of Baghdad by the Mongols made the Sack of Rome (410) sack of Rome by Alaric look kindly. The House of Wisdom Grand Library of Baghdad, containing countless precious historical documents and books on subjects ranging from medicine to astronomy, was destroyed. Survivors said that the waters of the Tigris ran black with ink from the enormous quantities of books flung into the river. Citizens attempted to flee, but were intercepted by Mongol soldiers who raped and killed with abandon.

Although death counts vary widely and cannot be easily substantiated, a number of estimates do exist. Martin Sicker writes that close to 90,000 people may have died (Sicker 2000, p. 111). Other estimates go much higher. Muslim historian Abdullah Wassaf claims the loss of life was several hundred thousand or more. Ian Frazier of The New Yorker estimates of the death toll have ranged from 200,000 to a million.

The Mongols looted and then destroyed. Mosques, palaces, libraries, hospitals — grand buildings that had been the work of generations were burned to the ground. The caliph was captured and forced to watch as his citizens were murdered and his treasury plundered. The caliph was trampled to death. Marco Polo reports that Hulagu starved the caliph to death, but there is no corroborating evidence for that. Most historians believe the Mongol accounts (and Muslim) that the Mongols rolled the caliph up in a rug, and rode their horses over him, as they believed that the earth was offended if touched by royal blood. All of his sons but one were killed. Prior to this, the Mongols destroyed a city only if it had resisted them. Cities that capitulated at the first demand for surrender could usually expect to be spared. Cities that surrendered after a short fight, such as this, normally could expect a sack, but not complete devastation. The utter ferocity of the rape of Baghdad is the worst example of Mongol excess known. (It is said some Chinese cities suffered a similar fate, but this is not documented).

Baghdad was a depopulated, ruined city for several centuries and only gradually recovered something of its former glory. Of all the Mongol Khans, he is, for obvious reasons, the most feared and despised.

Even today, Baghdad residence invoke Hulagu Khan's name as the war and occupation wage on. Several terrorist, militant and insurgent groups refer to U.S. President George W. Bush as a modern day Hulagu Khan.


 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,389
8,547
126
Originally posted by: DrPizza
It's still continuing. Stem cell research?


edit: Ahh, I see that the video is related to repressing knowledge, not to preventing new knowledge from being gained. In that case, it's still continuing: demands for the removal of evolution from the curriculum.

the government isn't stopping anyone from doing stem cell research.
 

J0hnny

Platinum Member
Jul 2, 2002
2,366
0
0
I'm not too worried. Even if the US wants to stifle scientific advancement in certain areas, there are other countries who will just simply surpass us in that area of knowledge.

For example, China is expanding on their own science programs and at this current rate, with their educational priorities, will probably be the leading science power house in the next 50 years.

Then there are other countries who have a strong tradition of research and scientific advancement who can further advance the collective human knowledge.

There will just be a large vacuum of scientist in the US moving elsewhere.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,850
3,806
136
Originally posted by: Fritzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMsdEkGQL0U&NR=1

I saw this last night and it's facinating. How repression caused us to be held from advancing for hundreds of years. If it weren't for government, religion, and politics, we'd be over 500 years more advanced right now! Stupid Romans took away my flying car :|

Or you could blame the Plague of Justinian in 541-2. Without that he might have been able to hold on to the western portions of the empire.
 

Analog

Lifer
Jan 7, 2002
12,755
3
0
I went to Cornell during the Carl Sagan era, and I sat in on one of his lectures. He is missed.
 

dug777

Lifer
Oct 13, 2004
24,778
4
0
Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Originally posted by: dug777
There's little as futile as whining about what might have been ;)

hmmm, so there is no credence to "those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it" (paraphrased).

That's quite another matter ;)