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$1000 and a Fried Brain

Toymandon

Junior Member
This is my first actual post, but I've read what feels like thousands on these forumns. So as my first post please allow me to give a brief introduction of where I'm comming from before i get to the Brain fried part.

I built last system just over 3 yrs ago with help from a friend(P3-450). So my ability is 50-50. I have spent the last 3 weeks reading every article/forum I could find. So knowledge is about as good as I'm gonna get it without your help. Budget= $1000(limited bby wife and 2 kids), but again I hardly ever upgrade between rebuilds, which I know alot of you are gonna say is nuts, buts its just how I am. So assume system will stay same for 2-3 years. Also system will be used for 40% surfin the net, 10% short-medium movie clips, 50% online mmorg games-specifically asheron's call 2 here shortly.

Ok after a ton of reading I believe I have arrived at what I want, but I also have some questions(probabley dumb ones), but I am so afraid of making a mistake that I just had to post and ask. This is where the Fried Brain comes in. My mind cant handle anymore numbers, etc. I ahve about 30 pages of notes and I am just about burnt out here. Please help if you can by answering the dumb questions, and making any system changes you feel I need. Also since this time I will be building by myself, if you have any tips on setings, please feel free to post em. Also Note I am not knowledgable enough, nor do I desire to overclock. so everything will run stock.

Monitor- will be using my old one a samsung syncmaster 955dynaflat-19"

Purchsaes:
Case-wanted an antec 1080amg PP, but due to budget looks like I'll be going with a Cheiftec DX-01wd with its included 400w power supply and 2 fans from Newegg-$79.00

Motherboard- was a toss up between the Gigabyte 81exp and the Auss P4b533-E. I have sortof decided on the Gigabyte because it has the built in NIC and the built in Creative sound. DUMB QUESTION: the specs on this board under memory lists pc1600 and pc 2100, but does not list pc2700. so does this mean that pc2700 ram will not work on this board? many test articles I have read claim to have used pc2700 on this board, so I am guessing it works, but want to make sure. Also, even if it works, does the board not fully support the advanced pc2700 ram? meaning it works, but you get no advanced performance over pc2100? New-egg price on gigabyte=$130

CPU- Right now waiting till Monday to see the price decreases, but I will be going either P4-2.53 or P4-2.4B, reatail version either way to get included fan, etc.. Dumb Question: Newegg lists it in description of retail box "No Rambus Ram". Now its a retail box, so I assume that this means nothing, but could someone assure me of this? Just want to make sure I am not missing something here.

CDR-Looked at plextor, moved to Lite-on due to price, moved to Free one being given to me by friend who upgraded his. I am not sure make of the free one, and I dont think it matters, as I run all software from Hard drive so the Cd reader part isnt real important to me as long as it works. Also I have never owned a burner before. So I am assuming than any burner will be a nice change, as I am only looking at burning maybe 20 CD's /year. So it will be nice to have but I wont be using it alot. Also can someone point me in a direction of a dumbie's easy to use, free cd burner program that will allow me to create cd's for use in a car? or even better yet one that converts video files to be burned to cd for use on a dvd player on tv as a vcd? Please looking for EASY to use, and freee🙂

Ram- ok looking at 512 of pc2700. Everyone says crucial all the way so I am probabley going that route. basic question, do I want 1-512 or 2-256? also I know my chip runs 533fsb, board claims 533 fsb, but i read articles about ram at 266/333 fsb. Now either Im confusing terms or im'm at a loss here. In short am I safe to assume that I want pc2700 over pc2100? Also I know crucial is cl2.5 and that by logic anyother ram at cl2.0 should be better, but I have read time and time again that crucial at cl2.5 will still outperform most other rams that are at cl2.0. Is this true? Keep in minf my online gaming and maybe help me out here. Crucial 512 pc2700=$178 at Crucial

Hard drive- many mixed reviews here, but definatelt a 7200rpm. Stuck between the Maxtor(which is the quiet drive worth the extra money?) and the WDspecial(is the 8mb cache really any advantage over a 2mb cache at these speeds?). Most reviews go with Maxtor, but I'm scared because at current I own the old Quantum Fireball and it stinks... So since maxtor and quantum are together I am once again scared. Maxtor 40=$78, Maxtor 80=$118, both newegg

Video card- well not much to be said here, cant afford the new ATI, but graphics is a must, so going with the MSI TI 4600. I did see there are 2 different models, one with video in and one without. Dumb Question: is video in what it sounds like? In other words does it mean I can hook my tv to the computer and watch tv on it without a tv tuner? If not what does Video in actually do?

Sound Card- Looked at SB audigy, but went with Free onboard sound on Gigabyte because many reviews lately state that the onboard sound chip is the same chip on the SBLive. Again, I paly games and watch a few movies, but I will be using cheapo $15 JUSTler active 95 integrated amplified speakers I have from old system. So I believe I am ok with just sticking with the onboard sound, as I'm no music enthusiast.

Mouse- Definately a dual optical mouse, only question is Logitech or Microsoft, I am right handed and really like the ones made for right handed people over the one made fro right or left handed. So leaning towards the Microsoft 3.0a $31 newegg

Keyboard-whatever cheap one the local shop has. I've had internet keyboards before and I ahte em.. Too many buttons and drivers, etc. Just stickin with a basic keboard 🙂

Floppy Drive-Free no-name one being given to me.

OS- Ok I have an original copy of Windows 982nd Edit. Was looking at going with 2000 or xp, but for the price I just cant justify it. Again, I am not a computer wizz and my usage is basic, so can anyone help verify my choice, or on the other hand tell me I'm stupid and need to upgrade-if so why?

NIC-Free onboard and is actual intel NIC so I think I shuld be fine.

Modem- Dont laugh, but rather cry for me. I am stuck with crappy Adelphia Cable network. Currently using their free Terayon TJ110. thinking of upgrading to a srfboard 4200. Cant find much reading on cable modems so just picked that one because its the only one supported by Adelphia that Newegg carries and since most parts coming from neweeg just figured it would be simpler. Can anyone tell me if i will get improved connections/speed with a new modem, etc?

I thank you all for any info/advice you post. And I also apologize as I am a mild user and dont know how to spellcheck within the posting so please forgive my misspelled words.

 
Originally posted by: Toymandon

I built last system just over 3 yrs ago with help from a friend(P3-450). So my ability is 50-50. I have spent the last 3 weeks reading every article/forum I could find. So knowledge is about as good as I'm gonna get it without your help. Budget= $1000(limited bby wife and 2 kids), but again I hardly ever upgrade between rebuilds, which I know alot of you are gonna say is nuts, buts its just how I am. So assume system will stay same for 2-3 years. Also system will be used for 40% surfin the net, 10% short-medium movie clips, 50% online mmorg games-specifically asheron's call 2 here shortly.

Ok after a ton of reading I believe I have arrived at what I want, but I also have some questions(probabley dumb ones), but I am so afraid of making a mistake that I just had to post and ask. This is where the Fried Brain comes in. My mind cant handle anymore numbers, etc. I ahve about 30 pages of notes and I am just about burnt out here. Please help if you can by answering the dumb questions, and making any system changes you feel I need. Also since this time I will be building by myself, if you have any tips on setings, please feel free to post em. Also Note I am not knowledgable enough, nor do I desire to overclock. so everything will run stock.

Well, you really don't need much knowledge to overclock with P4s, its as simple as adjusting a few BIOS settings.

Monitor- will be using my old one a samsung syncmaster 955dynaflat-19"

Purchsaes:
Case-wanted an antec 1080amg PP, but due to budget looks like I'll be going with a Cheiftec DX-01wd with its included 400w power supply and 2 fans from Newegg-$79.00

Honestly, an Antec 1080AMG is overkill for you. The *most* you would need is a PP660 series, and honestly, a SLK2600AMB would probably be fine.

Motherboard- was a toss up between the Gigabyte 81exp and the Auss P4b533-E. I have sortof decided on the Gigabyte because it has the built in NIC and the built in Creative sound. DUMB QUESTION: the specs on this board under memory lists pc1600 and pc 2100, but does not list pc2700. so does this mean that pc2700 ram will not work on this board? many test articles I have read claim to have used pc2700 on this board, so I am guessing it works, but want to make sure. Also, even if it works, does the board not fully support the advanced pc2700 ram? meaning it works, but you get no advanced performance over pc2100? New-egg price on gigabyte=$130

I would recommend the EPoX 4G4AI motherboard, which also includes integrated NIC for $100 at newegg. It has the i845G chipset, so its faster than the 8IEXP and cheaper.

CPU- Right now waiting till Monday to see the price decreases, but I will be going either P4-2.53 or P4-2.4B, reatail version either way to get included fan, etc.. Dumb Question: Newegg lists it in description of retail box "No Rambus Ram". Now its a retail box, so I assume that this means nothing, but could someone assure me of this? Just want to make sure I am not missing something here.

I'm not sure why they list it as "No Rambus RAM" but it doesn't matter. All retail boxed P4s come with the HS/F and 3 year warranty. If you reconsider OC'ing, a 1.8A is virtually guaranteed to hit 2.4B speeds.

Ram- ok looking at 512 of pc2700. Everyone says crucial all the way so I am probabley going that route. basic question, do I want 1-512 or 2-256? also I know my chip runs 533fsb, board claims 533 fsb, but i read articles about ram at 266/333 fsb. Now either Im confusing terms or im'm at a loss here. In short am I safe to assume that I want pc2700 over pc2100? Also I know crucial is cl2.5 and that by logic anyother ram at cl2.0 should be better, but I have read time and time again that crucial at cl2.5 will still outperform most other rams that are at cl2.0. Is this true? Keep in minf my online gaming and maybe help me out here. Crucial 512 pc2700=$178 at Crucial

Crucial RAM can be overpriced at times, especially when they aren't offering coupons. You can get 512MB of Corsair XMS PC2700C2 at googlegear for $150.50 w/FedEx 2nd Day shipping. Go with 1x512, its usually cheaper and offers greater upgrade options for the future.

Hard drive- many mixed reviews here, but definatelt a 7200rpm. Stuck between the Maxtor(which is the quiet drive worth the extra money?) and the WDspecial(is the 8mb cache really any advantage over a 2mb cache at these speeds?). Most reviews go with Maxtor, but I'm scared because at current I own the old Quantum Fireball and it stinks... So since maxtor and quantum are together I am once again scared. Maxtor 40=$78, Maxtor 80=$118, both newegg

The 8MB cache on the WE 'SE' definitely helps. It is absolutely the fastest IDE HD on the market, rivaling the speed of 10k SCSI drives in some benchies.

Video card- well not much to be said here, cant afford the new ATI, but graphics is a must, so going with the MSI TI 4600. I did see there are 2 different models, one with video in and one without. Dumb Question: is video in what it sounds like? In other words does it mean I can hook my tv to the computer and watch tv on it without a tv tuner? If not what does Video in actually do?

No, its not a TV tuner card. Rather, you can hook up a video source (such as a camcorder or whatever) up to it for video capturing.

Sound Card- Looked at SB audigy, but went with Free onboard sound on Gigabyte because many reviews lately state that the onboard sound chip is the same chip on the SBLive. Again, I paly games and watch a few movies, but I will be using cheapo $15 JUSTler active 95 integrated amplified speakers I have from old system. So I believe I am ok with just sticking with the onboard sound, as I'm no music enthusiast.

The 8IEXP uses the ALC650 sound chip (so does the 4G4AI) which is a decent chip, but inferior to the SB Live!. But honestly, with $15 speakers, it really doesn't matter which sound chip you use, they'll sound the same.

OS- Ok I have an original copy of Windows 982nd Edit. Was looking at going with 2000 or xp, but for the price I just cant justify it. Again, I am not a computer wizz and my usage is basic, so can anyone help verify my choice, or on the other hand tell me I'm stupid and need to upgrade-if so why?

XP has some big advantages over Win98 such as being far more stable and also being more secure, it also supports the NTFS file system instead of FAT32 (though it also supports FAT32). It also has some other nice features that I can't think of right off since I only currently have it on my laptop which I don't use that often. So its up to you decide whether added stability and security are worth the extra $$.

 
Quote...

Video card- well not much to be said here, cant afford the new ATI, but graphics is a must, so going with the MSI TI 4600. I did see there are 2 different models, one with video in and one without. Dumb Question: is video in what it sounds like? In other words does it mean I can hook my tv to the computer and watch tv on it without a tv tuner? If not what does Video in actually do?



Ok, the Ti4600 isn't really that much cheaper than a ATI 9700 is it? Perhaps you would be better off with a Ti4200 to save you some money, then go spending it on the Ti4600 series cards. Either that, or spring for the ATI.

Oh, PS, I don't think MS makes a "dual" optical mouse, not like Logitech that is with dual pickups. Although I hear the MS v3.0 mouse is pretty comparible in resolution with a single pickup.
 
I thank you both for the information/advice, and I encourage more as I wont be placing my order till Tuesday. I went with the TI 4600 because the MSI 128mb TI 4600 retail box is only $250 at newegg, while the new ATI 9700 retail is $389. I really dont want to spend the extra $139. I havent looked at the prices on the TI 4200 or even 4400 because all the articles I have read (here,sharky's, Tom's hardware,etc) just put such a huge emphasis on the 4600's higher performance over the 4400 and 4200 on online games. So I while I cant go up to the ATI 9700 due to cost, maybe I will look at soem of the benchmarks again on the 4200 and 4600.

Again, I thank you both for the great comments, and hope to get several more replies before Tuesday. I am starting to think that some of my "Dumb Questions" may not have been so dumb since they are still unanswered. They may be common sense answers to many, but to someone like myself who relies on the tech sites for info, the answers go unanswered. So I'm sure the answers would help not only myself but others who are not so computer literate, as most of the tech articles are so into the technical high end stuff they forget to mention the simple stuff. And unfortunately people like me dont know where to go look for those simple answers aside from here. 🙂

But I thank you all for your help, and I'm sure I'll have even more questions once the hardware is ordered and arrived. I'm already confused and trying to read up on things like jumper settings for the 1:1,4:5 fsb, etc to get it to utilize the pc 2700 ram. So I am sure yoyu will be seeing more of me even after I get all the parts figured out and ordered.

Thanks again,
Toymandon
 
(Just a note about AC2..I'm in the beta, and you'll likely want to get a 128mb Vid Card, for the best textures the game has to offer, which look great. I'd say get a Radeon 9700 😀 )
 
You could go with the GF4 Ti4200, and overclock the card. It is very easy to do, unlike CPU/MB overclocking. Once you get a 4200 cranked up, the performance rivals a 4600, and it's alot cheaper. $130-$140 ought to get you one, instead of $250 for a 4600. Don't get me wrong, I love my 4600, but I had the extra money to spend - for your situation, save the $ and get the 4200.
 
with this system, which woyuld give better performance?

512 of pc2700
or
2x512 of pc2100?


still doin some last minute adjustments
 
Originally posted by: Toymandon
with this system, which woyuld give better performance?

512 of pc2700
or
2x512 of pc2100?

Depends on what you do. The second option is plenty if you don't overclock a lot (most pc2100 can be brought up to 145 - 150 anyway) and you do a lot of picture manipulation and video editing which profit from 1 Gig of RAM...

For gaming, I'd rather go with 512 PC2700 for the extra O/C potential...
 
Case-wanted an antec 1080amg PP, but due to budget looks like I'll be going with a Cheiftec DX-01wd with its included 400w power supply and 2 fans from Newegg-$79.00

That Chieftec case will work fine. Though the Antec cases with the Firewire and USB on the front are nice.

Motherboard- was a toss up between the Gigabyte 81exp and the Auss P4b533-E. I have sortof decided on the Gigabyte because it has the built in NIC and the built in Creative sound. DUMB QUESTION: the specs on this board under memory lists pc1600 and pc 2100, but does not list pc2700. so does this mean that pc2700 ram will not work on this board? many test articles I have read claim to have used pc2700 on this board, so I am guessing it works, but want to make sure. Also, even if it works, does the board not fully support the advanced pc2700 ram? meaning it works, but you get no advanced performance over pc2100? New-egg price on gigabyte=$130

The 845e doesn't "officially" support PC2700, but will run it. It's benefits will be realized, if clocked correctly.

CPU- Right now waiting till Monday to see the price decreases, but I will be going either P4-2.53 or P4-2.4B, reatail version either way to get included fan, etc.. Dumb Question: Newegg lists it in description of retail box "No Rambus Ram". Now its a retail box, so I assume that this means nothing, but could someone assure me of this? Just want to make sure I am not missing something here.

Intel used to bundle Rambus memory with their retail processors. The contents are as Crazy Saint has said (instructions and thermal interface are also included).

CDR-Looked at plextor, moved to Lite-on due to price, moved to Free one being given to me by friend who upgraded his. I am not sure make of the free one, and I dont think it matters, as I run all software from Hard drive so the Cd reader part isnt real important to me as long as it works. Also I have never owned a burner before. So I am assuming than any burner will be a nice change, as I am only looking at burning maybe 20 CD's /year. So it will be nice to have but I wont be using it alot. Also can someone point me in a direction of a dumbie's easy to use, free cd burner program that will allow me to create cd's for use in a car? or even better yet one that converts video files to be burned to cd for use on a dvd player on tv as a vcd? Please looking for EASY to use, and freee

Nero burns CD/VCD. You can get the demo here. IIRC the demo may not include some features of the retail version. If you want to capture and edit video this is a good place for info. See if you can weasel a cable for the CD-RW .

Ram- ok looking at 512 of pc2700. Everyone says crucial all the way so I am probabley going that route. basic question, do I want 1-512 or 2-256? also I know my chip runs 533fsb, board claims 533 fsb, but i read articles about ram at 266/333 fsb. Now either Im confusing terms or im'm at a loss here. In short am I safe to assume that I want pc2700 over pc2100? Also I know crucial is cl2.5 and that by logic anyother ram at cl2.0 should be better, but I have read time and time again that crucial at cl2.5 will still outperform most other rams that are at cl2.0. Is this true? Keep in minf my online gaming and maybe help me out here. Crucial 512 pc2700=$178 at Crucial

Since you're not going to overclock, the benefits of "premium" RAM are minimized. One can typically take a single stick of RAM to a higher overclock, but that's moot. As Crazy Saint inferred, a single 512MB stick will allow greater expansion than 2 x 256MB. You've mentioned VCD, so I would get one 512MB stick.
That FSB talk can be confusing. I prefer to call the processor bus, "FSB" and the memory bus, "memory" or "mem". Some call them both FSB and that can be confusing. 533MHz is referring to the processor bus and 266/333MHz is referring to the memory bus.
A CL2.0 module will respond faster than a CL2.5 at the same clock.
That Crucial is pretty expensive.

Hard drive- many mixed reviews here, but definatelt a 7200rpm. Stuck between the Maxtor(which is the quiet drive worth the extra money?) and the WDspecial(is the 8mb cache really any advantage over a 2mb cache at these speeds?). Most reviews go with Maxtor, but I'm scared because at current I own the old Quantum Fireball and it stinks... So since maxtor and quantum are together I am once again scared. Maxtor 40=$78, Maxtor 80=$118, both newegg

Seagate Barracuda ATAIV may be the quietest HDD currently available. The Western Digital SE handles large files with great speed. If your going to do a lot of video, the WD is the choice. If you can swing the money, maybe Seagate boot and WD storage.

Video card- well not much to be said here, cant afford the new ATI, but graphics is a must, so going with the MSI TI 4600. I did see there are 2 different models, one with video in and one without. Dumb Question: is video in what it sounds like? In other words does it mean I can hook my tv to the computer and watch tv on it without a tv tuner? If not what does Video in actually do?

Regarding VIVO, the capturing is as Crazy Saint said(use a VCR's tuner). My experience with VIVO has shown image quality to be less than good. A dedicated capture card can offer much better image quality, some have onboard TV tuners. If video editing is more than a curiosity and the VIVO function comes at a price, then I might consider getting a video card without VIVO and spending the money on a capture/tuner card. If you have a DV cam, make sure the capture card supports "Firewire".



Sound Card- Looked at SB audigy, but went with Free onboard sound on Gigabyte because many reviews lately state that the onboard sound chip is the same chip on the SBLive. Again, I paly games and watch a few movies, but I will be using cheapo $15 JUSTler active 95 integrated amplified speakers I have from old system. So I believe I am ok with just sticking with the onboard sound, as I'm no music enthusiast.

What Crazy Saint said. BTW, the Audigy is another way of getting Firewire.

Mouse- Definately a dual optical mouse, only question is Logitech or Microsoft, I am right handed and really like the ones made for right handed people over the one made fro right or left handed. So leaning towards the Microsoft 3.0a $31 newegg

I use the Logitech cordless mouse and keyboard. The mouse has a thumb button for right handers.

Keyboard-whatever cheap one the local shop has. I've had internet keyboards before and I ahte em.. Too many buttons and drivers, etc. Just stickin with a basic keboard

Well, there you go.

Floppy Drive-Free no-name one being given to me.

If it works, great. Maybe you can weasel a cable for this too?

OS- Ok I have an original copy of Windows 982nd Edit. Was looking at going with 2000 or xp, but for the price I just cant justify it. Again, I am not a computer wizz and my usage is basic, so can anyone help verify my choice, or on the other hand tell me I'm stupid and need to upgrade-if so why?

If Win98 does what you need, use it until new software won't run.



NIC-Free onboard and is actual intel NIC so I think I shuld be fine.

🙂

Modem- Dont laugh, but rather cry for me. I am stuck with crappy Adelphia Cable network. Currently using their free Terayon TJ110. thinking of upgrading to a srfboard 4200. Cant find much reading on cable modems so just picked that one because its the only one supported by Adelphia that Newegg carries and since most parts coming from neweeg just figured it would be simpler. Can anyone tell me if i will get improved connections/speed with a new modem, etc?

I have no experience with those modems. If your getting one to compare the speeds, get it locally and from a shop that won't charge you to return it.

with this system, which woyuld give better performance?

512 of pc2700
or
2x512 of pc2100?

If a program is accessing the paging file(HDD), due to an insufficient amount of RAM, that paging file access can slow the operation dramatically.
For everyday use the 512MB of PC2700 will be faster, but some tasks, such as video rendering or large image manipulation(like Memphis said), could be much faster with the 1GB of PC2100.
You'll rarely, if ever, need more than 512MB.


You have your case/fans/PSU, mobo, CPU, HS/F, RAM, video card, modem, cables, FDD and CD-RW, your LAN and sound are onboard.
If you want a super quiet system, get the Seagate HDD and run the case fans @ 5v or 7v.
If you want the fastest HDD get the WD SE.

 
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