10 least reliable used-car brands

[desy]

Three of the five worst vehicles in our study are Mazdas. Severe engine issues with the Mazda CX-7, along with powertrain issues with the defunct Mazda 626 and Mazda Millenia have plagued Mazda's standing in the used car market for a long time

Not all Mazdas just these 3 super crappy ones, own one of those?

 

[Jimzz]

Mazda?

And no BMW or MB in site

me skeptical, especially since I have 2 mazda's that are both 13 + years old and have been extremely reliable.

Its mostly the turbo Mazda's that caused the most issues.

You have to read more than just the headline. Like they said about Kia it was the older ones that make the current ones look bad. I would have no problem buying a Kia made in the last 5 years myself.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Three of the five worst vehicles in our study are Mazdas. Severe engine issues with the Mazda CX-7, along with powertrain issues with the defunct Mazda 626 and Mazda Millenia have plagued Mazda's standing in the used car market for a long time

Not all Mazdas just these 3 super crappy ones, own one of those?

My father had a 626 for 15+ years and the car was very reliable as well.

I also know # of millenia owners. I'm guessing it might relate to S model?

Those seem pretty reliable as well.

My neighbor has CX7 and love it, no problems.

I know it's a hit or miss with reliability, but still.

 

[Midwayman]

Shouldn't be if aren't biased towards imports. Last year Chevy won the highest initial quality at JD powers, and for the first time in that rankings history, it was the first car maker to have every car they made rank above average. Given that they have the largest fleet on the planet, this is quite an achievement.

I went back and looked the details more. Seems mostly by virtue of their trucks/suvs. Their small cars, not so much. Seems everyone I know with a cavalier or similar has had lots of issues.

 

[Midwayman]

And no BMW or MB in site

From everything I've ever seen BMW is just mediocre while MB is above average. Just expensive to fix when something goes wrong.

 

[Squeetard]

Three of the five worst vehicles in our study are Mazdas. Severe engine issues with the Mazda CX-7, along with powertrain issues with the defunct Mazda 626 and Mazda Millenia have plagued Mazda's standing in the used car market for a long time

Not all Mazdas just these 3 super crappy ones, own one of those?

My mechanic friend has a cx-7 in the shop. Spun every bearing on the crank and rods. What a shitty engine. The entire crank and mains is a bolt in cradle. There is no tang on the bearings so they can spin in the journals. guy just had the turbo replaced for 2 grand too. Now he is looking at 4 G's for the bottom end. 6 years old.

 

[z1ggy]

My mechanic friend has a cx-7 in the shop. Spun every bearing on the crank and rods. What a shitty engine. The entire crank and mains is a bolt in cradle. There is no tang on the bearings so they can spin in the journals. guy just had the turbo replaced for 2 grand too. Now he is looking at 4 G's for the bottom end. 6 years old.

Is this the same engine that is in the 10-13 mazda3 by any chance? I'm about to buy a used one...

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Is this the same engine that is in the 10-13 mazda3 by any chance? I'm about to buy a used one...

no. for a turbo cx-7 it will be a 2.3. For regular 3 its a 2.0 or 2.5. The mazdaspeed 3 does use some form of the 2.3 turbo IIRC.

 

[slag]

VW's are crap. I knew this and my best friend(Has run his own garage for almost 40 years) knows this, and my Golfing buddy who owns an auto wreckers knows this. The latter is a true litmus test as they can not keep enough used engines and tranny's around and bid on every wrecked VW that comes across the auction. Of course, so is everyone else so they pay a high price for salvage and then the parts cost more for you. They actually had to stop buying Cavaliers and Sunfires as they have too many.

German engineering is a joke. Hipsters fall for it.

Edit: He had a 15 degree V6 VW out of a car and apart, it was the worst piece of engineering I had ever seen.

I had a vw jetta with the 2.8 liter VR6. Seemed pretty stout to me with the 5 speed manual transmission. Problem area with those cars are the timing chains and associated guides/tensioners, but aside from that, they are fairly stout and good running engines.

 

[JCH13]

My mechanic friend has a cx-7 in the shop. Spun every bearing on the crank and rods. What a shitty engine. The entire crank and mains is a bolt in cradle. There is no tang on the bearings so they can spin in the journals. guy just had the turbo replaced for 2 grand too. Now he is looking at 4 G's for the bottom end. 6 years old.

That's pretty awful. My MS3 (same engine) has been issue-free aside from a recall fix on a ground lug and typical short-lived Mazda shocks.

Was there any indication as to what might have caused that failure?

Also, $2k for a K04 turbo install? Someone got bent over a barrel...

 

[Skurge]

I think its because your VWs come from Mexico and not Germany like the rest of world? VWs are known to have reliability only second to Toyota.

 

[Jimzz]

I think its because your VWs come from Mexico and not Germany like the rest of world? VWs are known to have reliability only second to Toyota.

Hahahahahaaa... yea that's it. :whiste:

Cause all the other German cars, including those German Audi's, are so reliable.
Maybe because in the US we drive our cars a lot so we really test them for their reliability and longevity. VW/Audi fail hard.

 

[BUTCH1]

I guess they had a cutoff date, certainly the "Yugo" would be right up there. I knew a girl who bought one brand-new, 6 months in it kept popping out of 5th gear on the highway, when she returned to the dealer she was told there are no more parts for it so it could not be fixed under warranty, then they told her to "just keep one hand on the shifter" when driving on the highway LOL. Month later the dealership closed it'd doors..

 

[dguy6789]

I think its because your VWs come from Mexico and not Germany like the rest of world? VWs are known to have reliability only second to Toyota.

You're probably the only person on the planet that thinks a VW is above average in reliability let alone anywhere close to Toyota

 

[Meghan54]

And their list are based on opinions from people that subscribe to CR's. So any information based on that is flawed before the first data crunch is even made.

Keep thinking that, but the list the OP has linked to is closely matched at CR, line for line, model for model. Of course, CR only goes back to now '04 for older models, but the lists are close in lockstep with each other.

And CR doesn't take "opinions" from people about cars, they ask for who owns what, what repairs were done in the last year, etc. No opinions given or requested.

 

[Centauri]

You're probably the only person on the planet that thinks a VW is above average in reliability let alone anywhere close to Toyota

+1

 

[Arkaign]

+1

+1

I also want to stress that the list referenced in the OP is about specific models, not entire brands as a whole. Eg : a brand may have 10 models with several of them changing up over a decade+, but a handful of real lemons in there that sold decently well = a ton of dead/dying vehicles that impact the overall reliability reputation.

And as for BMW/Mercedes/Audi, true long-term reliability isn't even too much a concern for them. Probably upwards of 95% of people who buy/lease a brand new one don't even get close to 100k on the clock before getting a new one. And any reasonable vehicle should get to 100k with typical maintenance with zero major system failures. I do know a handful of Audis that have suffered transmission failures before 100k, but they were all older models than the current-gen stuff.

The second owner of these cars is typically someone who wants to drive a premium vehicle at a reasonable price, and will drive them for a while before getting nervous or running into a pricey repair, at which time they kick it off for cheap to somebody even poorer who wants that flashy badge. And we know what happens next : they get a few thousand miles on it and boom, $4,000 transmission replacement for that sweet 745i which nobody who buys a 13 year old BMW can afford. Off to the junkyard.

And that's the arc of the luxury car.

From this : http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/ctd/4506925336.html

To this : http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ptd/4517300582.html

In a few brief years. $90k to $50k to $500.

 

[Skurge]

Hahahahahaaa... yea that's it. :whiste:

Cause all the other German cars, including those German Audi's, are so reliable.
Maybe because in the US we drive our cars a lot so we really test them for their reliability and longevity. VW/Audi fail hard.

Yes, because driving on highways is more taxing than in the heat and terrible roads that are elsewhere.

I don't know whats with the VWs in the states, but it's the only country i know of that thinks VWs have terrible reliability.

I will admit, Audis aren't all that great here.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/photos/top-ten-most-reliable-cars-uk-2014-05-30

 

[Jimzz]

Keep thinking that, but the list the OP has linked to is closely matched at CR, line for line, model for model. Of course, CR only goes back to now '04 for older models, but the lists are close in lockstep with each other.

And CR doesn't take "opinions" from people about cars, they ask for who owns what, what repairs were done in the last year, etc. No opinions given or requested.

And of course they verify that right? Or do they just take someone's word.

My sister had a audi and if you asked her she said there were only 2 repairs on it. Yet I, the tech that worked on it, know it was about 14 in the 2 years she owned it. She dumped it at CarMax as it blew a head gasket with around 60k on it. Before that it was fuel pump, coils, air bag, etc...

So her opinion is it was a great car... the truth, it was like most other VW/Audi cars.

Consumer Reports reliability ratings for cars and trucks: are they reliable?
http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

Consumer Reports Car Rating Methodology is Flawed
http://blog.bluespringsfordparts.com/233/consumer-reports-rating-methodology-flawed/

 

[Q]

Wow, no American brands (main), surprising.

 

[BUTCH1]

+1

I also want to stress that the list referenced in the OP is about specific models, not entire brands as a whole. Eg : a brand may have 10 models with several of them changing up over a decade+, but a handful of real lemons in there that sold decently well = a ton of dead/dying vehicles that impact the overall reliability reputation.

And as for BMW/Mercedes/Audi, true long-term reliability isn't even too much a concern for them. Probably upwards of 95% of people who buy/lease a brand new one don't even get close to 100k on the clock before getting a new one. And any reasonable vehicle should get to 100k with typical maintenance with zero major system failures. I do know a handful of Audis that have suffered transmission failures before 100k, but they were all older models than the current-gen stuff.

The second owner of these cars is typically someone who wants to drive a premium vehicle at a reasonable price, and will drive them for a while before getting nervous or running into a pricey repair, at which time they kick it off for cheap to somebody even poorer who wants that flashy badge. And we know what happens next : they get a few thousand miles on it and boom, $4,000 transmission replacement for that sweet 745i which nobody who buys a 13 year old BMW can afford. Off to the junkyard.

And that's the arc of the luxury car.

From this : http://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/ctd/4506925336.html

To this : http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/ptd/4517300582.html

In a few brief years. $90k to $50k to $500.

Yea, that also points out that driving a domestic (even a flawed one) is going to be cheaper if/when a major repair is needed, mostly because the big 3 like to re-use engines and tranny's from previous model years whenever possible. A case in point is the GM "Iron Duke" 4 banger which was used in many cars from 1977-1993. If you needed a used engine the bone-yards were full of 'em. The car I'm driving now (05 Malibu Lt) uses a 3.5L V6, it was used in model years '04-'07, in Chevy's Pontiac's, Saturn's, same with the tranny, the 4T4E 4 speed has been used in different GM product's from '04-10, they run about $400-600 from a junkyard. I'm not saying that a used tranny is always the best idea but it's certainly the most affordable.

 

[Squeetard]

Yea, that also points out that driving a domestic (even a flawed one) is going to be cheaper if/when a major repair is needed, mostly because the big 3 like to re-use engines and tranny's from previous model years whenever possible. A case in point is the GM "Iron Duke" 4 banger which was used in many cars from 1977-1993. If you needed a used engine the bone-yards were full of 'em. The car I'm driving now (05 Malibu Lt) uses a 3.5L V6, it was used in model years '04-'07, in Chevy's Pontiac's, Saturn's, same with the tranny, the 4T4E 4 speed has been used in different GM product's from '04-10, they run about $400-600 from a junkyard. I'm not saying that a used tranny is always the best idea but it's certainly the most affordable.

This. I posted this earlier, my golf buddy owns an auto wrecker. These engines and trannys are cheap because every wrecker has plenty of them in stock. Because they last. They sell every salvaged vw engine/trans instantly, and there is bidding wars at the auction, so the price goes way up.

 

[Squeetard]

That's pretty awful. My MS3 (same engine) has been issue-free aside from a recall fix on a ground lug and typical short-lived Mazda shocks.

Was there any indication as to what might have caused that failure?

Also, $2k for a K04 turbo install? Someone got bent over a barrel...

It looked like the guy could have changed the oil more frequently, but still pretty normal in the crank case. The Turbo going out probably contributed, but we are talking about the cost of repairs, not just reliability.

 

[BUTCH1]

This. I posted this earlier, my golf buddy owns an auto wrecker. These engines and trannys are cheap because every wrecker has plenty of them in stock. Because they last. They sell every salvaged vw engine/trans instantly, and there is bidding wars at the auction, so the price goes way up.

Well, GM did have the LIM gasket issue in the V6's for some time, it's a shame because otherwise a 3800 is a stone-cold solid engine, unfortunately sometimes the owners didn't detect the blown gasket in time and some engines got ruined.

 

[ronniedavisk2_9]

I'm amazed Land Rover wasn't ranked the most unreliable.