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10-16-08 'Joe the Plumber' does not have plumbing license

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Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Dari
-snip-
Yeah, I don't know anyone who refuses a new job or refuses to work overtime because of tax issues. All that shit is in the mind of economists, not real people with real lives.
Ummm... NO

I can assure you that occurs.

While a 3% increase isn't likely high enough to motivate/demotivate, when I started working in taxation the highest tax rate was 70% and when you get to that level many people find the extra effort for more just isn't worth it. Hehe, at one time the UK had rates above 100%, it definitely wasn't worth it ;)

------------------

I don't understand the whole "tax scofflaw" thingy.

So the guy owes the state $1,800 or so. Big deal. You'd be amaxed at how many people owe the government for taxes, whether fed/state income or property taxes.

Does anybody here owe $1,800 on a credit card (or car loan)? What's the difference?

Fern
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
699
126
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Dari
-snip-
Yeah, I don't know anyone who refuses a new job or refuses to work overtime because of tax issues. All that shit is in the mind of economists, not real people with real lives.
Ummm... NO

I can assure you that occurs.

While a 3% increase isn't likely high enough to motivate/demotivate, when I started working in taxation the highest tax rate was 70% and when you get to that level many people find the extra effort for more just isn't worth it. Hehe, at one time the UK had rates above 100%, it definitely wasn't worth it ;)

------------------

I don't understand the whole "tax scofflaw" thingy.

So the guy owes the state $1,800 or so. Big deal. You'd be amaxed at how many people owe the government for taxes, whether fed/state income or property taxes.

Does anybody here owe $1,800 on a credit card (or car loan)? What's the difference?

Fern

Maybe if we were near 70% or attempting to raise the level to 70%, you would have an argument, but looking at it now, we are going back to Clinton's tax levels for those over $250,000. The 1990's didn't look that bad because of it, now did they?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-
Maybe if we were near 70% or attempting to raise the level to 70%, you would have an argument, but looking at it now, we are going back to Clinton's tax levels for those over $250,000. The 1990's didn't look that bad because of it, now did they?
Again, I don't think 3% is a big deal. But I think it wrong not to recognize the influence tax rates have on behavior.

Personally, I don't a mind a little tax increase on the rich. And I wish we'd get rid of the lophole for fund managers, that's just insane.

My belief is combined fed & state need to be under 50% or you start having people consciously avoid extra income. There's something about making money, and getting a smaller share than the government that really bugs people.

Fern
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
699
126
Originally posted by: Fern


My belief is combined fed & state need to be under 50% or you start having people consciously avoid extra income. There's something about making money, and getting a smaller share than the government that really bugs people.

Fern
I don't have a problem with that. I would bet that many of us pay nearly 50% in taxes when you throw in federal, state, county, city, sales, property, (taxes on all of our utilities), etc.

Besides, if Joe ever gets above the $102,000 range, he'll get a 6.4% tax cut anyway (no more SS) unless he owns the business in which he'll pay 12.8% and will receive a 12.8% cut at that point. Is SS deductible from a business point of view? I know we pay SS tax and federal income tax on the same money, but what about a business?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: Fern


My belief is combined fed & state need to be under 50% or you start having people consciously avoid extra income. There's something about making money, and getting a smaller share than the government that really bugs people.

Fern
I don't have a problem with that. I would bet that many of us pay nearly 50% in taxes when you throw in federal, state, county, city, sales, property, (taxes on all of our utilities), etc.
We probably pay more. IIRC, a little less than 1/2 of federal revenues are from income taxes. The rest is hidden in costs we pay for products. So added togther it is more than 50% for many people (and that's not including states/city income or sales or property taxes).

But the hidden stuff tends not to have the psychological effect that income taxes (and sales or property taxes) do.


Besides, if Joe ever gets above the $102,000 range, he'll get a 6.4% tax cut anyway (no more SS) unless he owns the business in which he'll pay 12.8% and will receive a 12.8% cut at that point. Is SS deductible from a business point of view? I know we pay SS tax and federal income tax on the same money, but what about a business?
The employer half of employees' SS is deductible for the business (the employer's rate is 7.65%, the same as the employee. Combined SS rate - OASDI & Medicare - is 15.3%)
12.8 is just the OASDI portion
See bolded

Fern
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
699
126
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: Fern


My belief is combined fed & state need to be under 50% or you start having people consciously avoid extra income. There's something about making money, and getting a smaller share than the government that really bugs people.

Fern
I don't have a problem with that. I would bet that many of us pay nearly 50% in taxes when you throw in federal, state, county, city, sales, property, (taxes on all of our utilities), etc.
We probably pay more. IIRC, a little less than 1/2 of federal revenues are from income taxes. The rest is hidden in costs we pay for products. So added togther it is more than 50% for many people (and that's not including states/city income or sales or property taxes).

But the hidden stuff tends not to have the psychological effect that income taxes (and sales or property taxes) do.


Besides, if Joe ever gets above the $102,000 range, he'll get a 6.4% tax cut anyway (no more SS) unless he owns the business in which he'll pay 12.8% and will receive a 12.8% cut at that point. Is SS deductible from a business point of view? I know we pay SS tax and federal income tax on the same money, but what about a business?
The employer half of employees' SS is deductible for the business (the employer's rate is 7.65%, the same as the employee. Combined SS rate - OASDI & Medicare - is 15.3%)
12.8 is just the OASDI portion
See bolded

Fern
I left out the 1.45% (X2 for employer) for Medicare because it doesn't drop off at $102,000 so therefore, no tax cut on that after the $102,000 level.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
46
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Why am I not surprised

10-24-2008 Joe Wurzelbacher, a.k.a. "Joe the Plumber," said Friday he may consider running for Congress in 2010, challenging longtime Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D) in the Toledo-area district.

"I'll tell you what, we'd definitely be in one heck of a fight," Wurzelbacher said during an appearance on the Laura Ingraham show Friday, "but, you know, I'd be up for it."

"There is a movement afoot to draft you to run for Congress," Ingraham said. "Joe, let me tell you something: you decide to run for Congress, and I'll help you with your PR, I'll help you do your ads, I mean, I'll volunteer to help you."

Supporters launched a website following Wurzelbacher's rise to prominence encouraging him to run for the seat.

joewurzelbacher2010.com

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Why am I not surprised

10-24-2008 Joe Wurzelbacher, a.k.a. "Joe the Plumber," said Friday he may consider running for Congress in 2010, challenging longtime Rep. Marcy Kaptur (D) in the Toledo-area district.

"I'll tell you what, we'd definitely be in one heck of a fight," Wurzelbacher said during an appearance on the Laura Ingraham show Friday, "but, you know, I'd be up for it."

"There is a movement afoot to draft you to run for Congress," Ingraham said. "Joe, let me tell you something: you decide to run for Congress, and I'll help you with your PR, I'll help you do your ads, I mean, I'll volunteer to help you."

Supporters launched a website following Wurzelbacher's rise to prominence encouraging him to run for the seat.

joewurzelbacher2010.com
lol :thumbsup:
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Engineer
Originally posted by: Fern
-snip-
I left out the 1.45% (X2 for employer) for Medicare because it doesn't drop off at $102,000 so therefore, no tax cut on that after the $102,000 level.
I see! :light:

You're right, my bad :eek:

Fern
 

hellokeith

Golden Member
Nov 12, 2004
1,665
0
0
Originally posted by: QuantumPion
I think someone hijacked my browser. I typed in anandtech but it took me to dailykaos instead.
P&N is an RSS feed from DK, among others.
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
1
0
Well Senator Joe is just living the american dream, handouts from radio stations, a senate race. Wonder if he will need Palins hair stylus :)
 

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