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1 in 5 Americans is Religiously Unaffiliated

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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
He an end of the world scientologist type. Aliens made people and they are going to be back any minute to fuck shit up. Thing is, their arrival has been imminent since he was 4 years old. He's a grandfather now, so they should be here any second.
I am rather curious, why would they make us just to come back and fuck shit up? I would think that aliens with that sort of ability, technology, and knowledge would have evolved beyond an 8 year old who likes to shake up his ant farm after they build it up.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
Good question.

People don't read the Bible for themselves -- they listen to their "teachers" and aren't allowed to question them out of fear of questioning "God". :rolleyes:

So... they just follow and do as commanded.

Using Muslim extremists as an example, some say Muhammed would NEVER condone violence, or return violence in kind. However, some muslims do just that.

Why? Well, if that's true about Muhammed, they aren't listenining to him... they're listening to whomever wants to shed the blood of those who "disrepsect" Muhammed.

I think that followers of certain religions are just doing what they're told by their "leaders" when it comes to killing, etc... and can't ask questions out of fear of being booted out of the Church.
I think you are correct. The question is why are those people so easily influenced to do things that most of us would never even consider. The answer to that question is education. Stupid people tend to do stupid shit and are a hellofa lot easier to convince to be "outraged" and doing stupid shit than educated people.

The problem is that its the religion itself, and its leaders, actively seeks to keep their followers uneducated so that they can control them.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
Stopping right there because I've brought this up before.

There is no Bible that hasn't been altered, edited, and translated to affect its meaning.
Not every Bible.

Some are... some are just translated to be easily understood. Remember, in the dark ages, they killed people for possesing and/or reading the Bible, so there is something in it that they didn't want people to read.

They also translated it into Latin to really keep people from understanding it. Latin was a language hardly spoken.


I think you are correct. The question is why are those people so easily influenced to do things that most of us would never even consider. The answer to that question is education. Stupid people tend to do stupid shit and are a hellofa lot easier to convince to be "outraged" and doing stupid shit than educated people.

The problem is that its the religion itself, and its leaders, actively seeks to keep their followers uneducated so that they can control them.
I don't think that's completely true.

People are easily influenced becasue they sincerely believe what they are taught, and they want satisfying answers.

The same could be said of non-religious people who do stupid stuff that are very smart. Watch American Greed on CNBC. They rob and steal people's life savings, empty bank accounts, set up Billion dollar Ponzi schemes. These people have college educations.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
I would think that aliens with that sort of ability, technology, and knowledge would have evolved beyond an 8 year old who likes to shake up his ant farm after they build it up.
It sounds rather Moonie-esque but these modern religious and Illuminati folk lore tales really say a lot about the arrogance of humanities ego to come up with such stories of aliens or gods who would give a crap about us enough to lay the smack down. Really it is all a reflection of our own self destructiveness. In 10,000 years archaeologists would mark it down as another attempt to describe the still primitive social sciences and our reaction to events (man made and natural) that govern humanities history and how it affects us and our image of ourselves.

What humanity is scared shitless of is the fact that WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OURSELVES -and our legacy. This is a problem on the personal level for many also.

No superheros, no gods, no saviors. No easy answers of a black and white enemy. Our danger is to ourselves.

And we all know how freaking dangerous we are as a species now that we have science to feed the world or blow it to hell.

I claim the term moonie-esque.
 
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rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,850
0
0
Weve already covered this. Religion is not the reason for war but the tool for it. Take away the tool. Now find a reason besides defending yourself.

A leader of a country may have desires of imperialist, fascism etc but trying to get a million + people to support that enough to start a war is going to be a hard sale. Religion is the easy tool because people are willing to die for their blind faith.

I know im not going to war unless im attacked. Im also not religious.
Tell that to Nazi Germany. Fact is, when there is lack of education, lack of cross nation, cross culture understanding, or when there is something in a society that people are extremely unhappy about, be it poverty, income gap/inequality, racial hatred, it's easy to incite wars and conflicts. And religion won't be the only tool available to instigators.
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Tell that to Nazi Germany. Fact is, when there is lack of education, lack of cross nation, cross culture understanding, or when there is something in a society that people are extremely unhappy about, be it poverty, income gap/inequality, racial hatred, it's easy to incite wars and conflicts. And religion won't be the only tool available to instigators.
I have had the "privilege" of reading Mein Kampf from cover to cover when I was younger. (better then Ayn Rand, but both pale in comparison to Stephen Kings "It" in sucky long wordiness.

Hitler was damn ballsy to lay it ALL out in that book while he was in jail. Very interesting to read and know your WW2 history after the fact. He followed his plan almost to the letter. And only a few paid attention.

Granted WW2 kinda spoils the end of Mein Kampf since we all know the 1000 year reich gets its ass kicked. (well all of us except Ann Coulter or Spidey maybe)

Anywaaaay...

Hitler framed the whole deal as a religious christian teutonic crusade. Gods chosen: the "ubermenchen".



In case your German is rusty that's "God With Us."

Most Wehrmacht soldiers were issued this as belt buckles. -From Hitlers personal orders mind you.

Look at just about any genocide in history, you are damn hard pressed to find religion not creeping its way into it or the outright justification.
 
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rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,850
0
0
I have had the "privilege" of reading Mein Kampf from cover to cover when I was younger. (better then Ayn Rand, but both pale in comparison to Stephen Kings "It" in sucky long wordiness.

Hitler was damn ballsy to lay it ALL out in that book while he was in jail. Very interesting to read and know your WW2 history after the fact. He followed his plan almost to the letter. And only a few paid attention.

Granted WW2 kinda spoils the end of Mein Kampf since we all know the 1000 year reich gets its ass kicked. (well all of us except Ann Coulter or Spidey maybe)

Anywaaaay...

Hitler framed the whole deal as a religious christian teutonic crusade. Gods chosen: the "ubermenchen".



In case your German is rusty that's "God With Us."

Most Wehrmacht soldiers were issued this as belt buckles. -From Hitlers personal orders mind you.

Look at just about any genocide in history, you are damn hard pressed to find religion not creeping its way into it or the outright justification.
Oh come on, with all the showing off of your vast knowledge and books you read, how can you seriously put WW2 on religion, and religion alone. At best Hitler used god to justify his superior Aryan race, but that is mostly play to the racism mindset and the need for German to feel better about themselves after humiliation of WW1. The rise of Nazi is mostly to do with their social, economic and political situation that time, not much to do with religion. So they have a belt buckles with "God with us", just like many US military cites God, Country .... as their creed, but doesn't mean US military are bunch of religious nuts driven by religion fanaticism.

Give it a rest with religion bashing already. There are many good things done in the name of religion, I know it's hard for you people to admit. And bad things too. In the end, religion is nothing but another human invention, in the hands of right people, it will help humanity, in the hands of wrong people, it will hurt. You want to get rid of religion, you have to consider how many people use religion for the right reason, a spiritual backing so they can face difficulties in the world, a human need to find some meaning in life, or after life. Not every person use religion as a excuse to blow other people up you know.
 
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rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,850
0
0
It sounds rather Moonie-esque but these modern religious and Illuminati folk lore tales really say a lot about the arrogance of humanities ego to come up with such stories of aliens or gods who would give a crap about us enough to lay the smack down. Really it is all a reflection of our own self destructiveness. In 10,000 years archaeologists would mark it down as another attempt to describe the still primitive social sciences and our reaction to events (man made and natural) that govern humanities history and how it affects us and our image of ourselves.

What humanity is scared shitless of is the fact that WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OURSELVES -and our legacy. This is a problem on the personal level for many also.

No superheros, no gods, no saviors. No easy answers of a black and white enemy. Our danger is to ourselves.

And we all know how freaking dangerous we are as a species now that we have science to feed the world or blow it to hell.

I claim the term moonie-esque.
Actually if you look at how communist tried to take religion away from people, it is precisely their arrogance, thinking that human has all the answers, can solve all the problem, and have the mental toughness - that there is no need to rely on higher power for safe heaven, that drove those communist to declare religion the "opium of the people". And we have seen how those arrogance turned out.

Again, there are people who are humbled by religion, use religion to better themselves and help others. And I would argue those people are the majority.
 

ericlp

Diamond Member
Dec 24, 2000
6,079
186
106
We need to break free of the mind viruses.

religion clouds the mind of a higher consciousness. I think that when one is free of religious beliefs cognitive thinking skills are heightened making better decisions and choices in life.


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Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,760
11
81
Look at just about any genocide in history, you are damn hard pressed to find religion not creeping its way into it or the outright justification.
"Damn hard"? The Khmer Rouge genocide and Stalin's purges both had victims numbering into the millions - was religion the primary drive behind either?
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,325
6,434
136
I am rather curious, why would they make us just to come back and fuck shit up? I would think that aliens with that sort of ability, technology, and knowledge would have evolved beyond an 8 year old who likes to shake up his ant farm after they build it up.
It sounds rather Moonie-esque but these modern religious and Illuminati folk lore tales really say a lot about the arrogance of humanities ego to come up with such stories of aliens or gods who would give a crap about us enough to lay the smack down. Really it is all a reflection of our own self destructiveness. In 10,000 years archaeologists would mark it down as another attempt to describe the still primitive social sciences and our reaction to events (man made and natural) that govern humanities history and how it affects us and our image of ourselves.

What humanity is scared shitless of is the fact that WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OURSELVES -and our legacy. This is a problem on the personal level for many also.

No superheros, no gods, no saviors. No easy answers of a black and white enemy. Our danger is to ourselves.

And we all know how freaking dangerous we are as a species now that we have science to feed the world or blow it to hell.

I claim the term moonie-esque.
@Darwin: First of all, I am paraphrasing Nemesis since I can't claim to know exactly what is going on inside his head. All I can do is piece together the info I glean from his posts. Given the fact that he keeps railing about humans going against nature lately, I assume he believes it is because our "ant farm" is about to be shook up anyway with or without any outside help.

For the record, I don't subscribe to the theory that "aliens." I do, however, subscribe to the theory that humanity is buttfucking our environment at an exponential rate. I don't base this belief purely on science, so no need for climate deniers to jump in and convince me of anything. I base it on simple common sense, and I don't buy the meme started by Rush so many years ago, that "human behavior can't significantly impact the earth and to claim such is arrogance." I actually think it is arrogance to claim that human behavior cannot impact the earth. If someone is gullible enough to swallow Rush's load I ask that someone one simple question. What about nuclear weapons? Would a global nuclear war significantly impact the earth's ability to sustain us? Of course it would. So why is it such a strech then that polluting at a constantly increasing rate would not eventually fuck up our ant farm?
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
I don't think that's completely true.

People are easily influenced becasue they sincerely believe what they are taught, and they want satisfying answers.

The same could be said of non-religious people who do stupid stuff that are very smart. Watch American Greed on CNBC. They rob and steal people's life savings, empty bank accounts, set up Billion dollar Ponzi schemes. These people have college educations.
But they aren't blowing shit up or killing people because someone told them to be mad about something. Your examples show that some people will do bad things because of greed, I am talking about people being told or influenced to do bad things and they do them even though they don't directly benefit them. There is a huge difference.

I am sure I could find dozens of examples to the contrary but for the most part its rather difficult to get educated people to riot over a youtube video. Sure they might be upset but rioting, looting, burning, killing, blowing shit up (including themselves)..... not so much.
 

Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,947
2,324
126
@Darwin: First of all, I am paraphrasing Nemesis since I can't claim to know exactly what is going on inside his head. All I can do is piece together the info I glean from his posts. Given the fact that he keeps railing about humans going against nature lately, I assume he believes it is because our "ant farm" is about to be shook up anyway with or without any outside help.

For the record, I don't subscribe to the theory that "aliens." I do, however, subscribe to the theory that humanity is buttfucking our environment at an exponential rate. I don't base this belief purely on science, so no need for climate deniers to jump in and convince me of anything. I base it on simple common sense, and I don't buy the meme started by Rush so many years ago, that "human behavior can't significantly impact the earth and to claim such is arrogance." I actually think it is arrogance to claim that human behavior cannot impact the earth. If someone is gullible enough to swallow Rush's load I ask that someone one simple question. What about nuclear weapons? Would a global nuclear war significantly impact the earth's ability to sustain us? Of course it would. So why is it such a strech then that polluting at a constantly increasing rate would not eventually fuck up our ant farm?
At least you didn't say "save the earth" lol, I always get a good laugh when I hear that. The Earth will be just fine no matter what we do, its ability to provide us with a place to live is what we want to save. I don't disagree with you one bit but I am more of a "solutions" guy and for the life of me I can't come up with any sort of decent solution for the problem.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,325
6,434
136
At least you didn't say "save the earth" lol, I always get a good laugh when I hear that. The Earth will be just fine no matter what we do, its ability to provide us with a place to live is what we want to save. I don't disagree with you one bit but I am more of a "solutions" guy and for the life of me I can't come up with any sort of decent solution for the problem.
I do. Obama does and he is demonzed for it. Invest in green technology. Invest in education. Restore our country until it is the leader in cutting edge technology once again. Stop letting fossil fuel moguls control your government for their own profit.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
8,150
108
106
But they aren't blowing shit up or killing people because someone told them to be mad about something. Your examples show that some people will do bad things because of greed, I am talking about people being told or influenced to do bad things and they do them even though they don't directly benefit them. There is a huge difference.

I am sure I could find dozens of examples to the contrary but for the most part its rather difficult to get educated people to riot over a youtube video. Sure they might be upset but rioting, looting, burning, killing, blowing shit up (including themselves)..... not so much.

I feel you, and I agree with you. I am not defending religious idiots, either. I am trying to look at both sides of the isle.

People here generally like to blame the world's issues on religion and non-educated (hgher educated) people sometimes. That's simply not true.


Some of the mass murdering that's been going in isn't religiously motivated.. such as James Holmes, that idiot that tried to kill that politican in Arizona last year (as far as I know, that wasn't religiously motivated), and that jerk here in Michigan that killed a GM (I think Dodge/Chrystler but I don't recall) co-worker and then killed himself later.

The Oklahoma City bombing in 94 had nothing to do with religion, (again, IIRC.. last I read about that) it was anti-government.

Open your eyes, and lay blame where it belongs... on BOTH sides

EDIT: Is there a good reason for doing something stupid? Killing a lump of people?

Oh, I guess since he didn't do it for his god, it ain't that bad... or it can somehow be excused?
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
105,030
19,724
136
Religion is not going anywhere. It has no place in politics, but if you have some agenda to "purge" religion from people's personal lives, then you're just as much of a scumbag as Hitler or Stalin.
wait a tic--when was Hitler an Athiest? His "perfect human" was required to be a Christian. It was quite central to his entire cult.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,299
350
126
wait a tic--when was Hitler an Athiest? His "perfect human" was required to be a Christian. It was quite central to his entire cult.
He wouldn't have been able to do anything about it if he didn't have the weight of his government behind him. Remove the tool, and you end all wars. Sure there may be some skirmishes here and there and blood feuds. But I defy you to find any similar loss of life comparable to WW2 that was done without the tool of government.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,325
6,434
136
Look at the people who follow it. Judge a religion based on the fruits of its members who make claims that they follow it.
Really? I don't think you want to change the subject to pedophilia, do you?
 

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Actually if you look at how communist tried to take religion away from people, it is precisely their arrogance, thinking that human has all the answer
Stalin was the one that brought religion back to the USSR in WW2 against Lenin's deathbed wishes a decade or so before. Stalin who made the fight a "sacred" (or holy) war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSaimLTQafg

Stalin was a religious man who was formally trained as a orthodox priest.

He was also a violent drunkard and thug. But he used the religious aspect to build a cult of personality.

You are splitting hairs. Stalin is a good example actually.
 

Munky

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2005
9,379
0
76
wait a tic--when was Hitler an Athiest? His "perfect human" was required to be a Christian. It was quite central to his entire cult.
It's not about being an atheist or a religious zealot. It's about trying to impose your agenda on other people's free will. Kind of like thinking how we should eradicate religion to create some other version of the "perfect human."
 

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