1: Go to BYU. 2: Get a GF 3: Have sex. 4: Get kicked off the bball team

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Ninjahedge

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2005
4,149
1
91
Come on, you have to give it to us mormons,

Um, no.

Well, it depends on what "it" is.

if there is one thing we favor it is education. There are quite a few mormon doctors and scientists, and very few mormons that actually believe that the world was created in exactly 6 days.

I wasn't saying that, I was equating religious "piety" to blind faith and ignorane I am more familiar with.

Many physicists and astronomers are Catholic/Christian as well, but that does not change the fact that many of that sect still believe in things like Creationism and I woudl not be surprised to find a few stillthinking Earth was at the center of the universe....

Star Trek was only seen by so many, you know?

Mormons are very dedicated to the sciences. More so than most other religions in my opinion.

Again, straw man. Science does not say that you have to wear a particular type of undies.

Science (psycology) can prove and refute the whole deal about what a "proper" amount of clothing is simply by studying multiple cultures. If something is seen every day, it is not a sexual signal when you see it on a woman.

So saying that you cannot show anything above the knees because that is immoral is just plain silly.

It MAY be something that does not fit with the SOCIAL CUSTOMS of the time/area, but God had nothing to do with it.


Anyway, are we far enough OT yet?
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
Fine.

But god calling up on the hotline to retract something that had been taught for 40 years in order to achieve statehood is awfully convenient, don't you think?

Do you really believe that god changed his mind on polygamy or that the church leaders of the time made a human decision based on politics to change a fundamental tenant of the church?

Yep. Very convenient. Isn't life grand :D.

The church leaders are human and fallible. This is something that drives me nuts about the mormon church, many of is members have this stupid notion that its leaders never make a mistake. Even though countless leaders have said otherwise.

Now, it was a fundamental tenant, and it was a big thing. I'll even concede that there is a good chance it was totally a human based decision. For me, it isn't a big issue. I don't believe that everything the church has done has been 100% right, correct, or unmotivated by external forces.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
Yep. Very convenient. Isn't life grand :D.

The church leaders are human and fallible. This is something that drives me nuts about the mormon church, many of is members have this stupid notion that its leaders never make a mistake. Even though countless leaders have said otherwise.

Now, it was a fundamental tenant, and it was a big thing. I'll even concede that there is a good chance it was totally a human based decision. For me, it isn't a big issue. I don't believe that everything the church has done has been 100% right, correct, or unmotivated by external forces.

Here's the problem:

The Mormon church isn't the YMCA or Wal-Mart. Those institutions are free to change their policies based on whatever they like (within legal limitations). They aren't claiming their policies are the word of a divine being that created us all.

When a religion propounds to be the source of divine warrant and to contain the true word of god, shouldn't one expect that religion to remain static? If the human beings in charge of that religion can freely alter it's tenants and claim god told them to do so, then don't we simply have a man made organization masquerading as a religion? Would an all knowing being purposefully teach a false prophecy only to correct the mistake 40 year later when faced with the political actions of the puny United States of America?
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
Here's the problem:

The Mormon church isn't the YMCA or Wal-Mart. Those institutions are free to change their policies based on whatever they like (within legal limitations). They aren't claiming their policies are the word of a divine being that created us all.

When a religion propounds to be the source of divine warrant and to contain the true word of god, shouldn't one expect that religion to remain static? If the human beings in charge of that religion can freely alter it's tenants and claim god told them to do so, then don't we simply have a man made organization masquerading as a religion? Would an all knowing being purposefully teach a false prophecy only to correct the mistake 40 year later when faced with the political actions of the puny United States of America?

Humans and life isn't static, why should religion be? There wasn't computers 200 years ago, so why shouldn't god change morals and standards to encompass a evolving and changing world.

Or, if you are familiar enough with the Book of Mormon, there is one passage where a good guy kills a bad guy and specifically tries to cope with the fact that god had just commanded him to do something that was earlier disallowed. Situations change. Perhaps Polygamy wasn't really needed any more so god did decide to end it then (it was as good a time as any). Perhaps god told the prophets earlier that they should stop it, but they didn't really listen, perhaps the notion of polygamy really isn't all that important so changing its status wasn't a big issue in the cosmos. IDK, I don't really know all the details of the revocation of polygamy.

That god changes his tenats isn't really a big issue for mormons. He has done it in the past (Animal sacrifices to no animal sacrifices) so why not today.

It would be a little arrogant to claim that I know what an all knowing being would and wouldn't do.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
36
91
Humans and life isn't static, why should religion be? There wasn't computers 200 years ago, so why shouldn't god change morals and standards to encompass a evolving and changing world.

Or, if you are familiar enough with the Book of Mormon, there is one passage where a good guy kills a bad guy and specifically tries to cope with the fact that god had just commanded him to do something that was earlier disallowed. Situations change. Perhaps Polygamy wasn't really needed any more so god did decide to end it then (it was as good a time as any). Perhaps god told the prophets earlier that they should stop it, but they didn't really listen, perhaps the notion of polygamy really isn't all that important so changing its status wasn't a big issue in the cosmos. IDK, I don't really know all the details of the revocation of polygamy.

That god changes his tenats isn't really a big issue for mormons. He has done it in the past (Animal sacrifices to no animal sacrifices) so why not today.

It would be a little arrogant to claim that I know what an all knowing being would and wouldn't do.


The fact that someone believes this stuff is very scary.

Humanity sucks.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
The fact that someone believes this stuff is very scary.

Humanity sucks.

No more scary then to realize that at one time, the majority of humanity believed this sort of stuff. The notion that god speaks to man used to be a pretty popular one.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
36
91
No more scary then to realize that at one time, the majority of humanity believed this sort of stuff. The notion that god speaks to man used to be a pretty popular one.

People also thought the Earth was flat, and that draining blood cured ailments. Luckily we have advanced in many things. Believing in a magic sky fairy, not so much unfortunately.
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
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Or, if you are familiar enough with the Book of Mormon, there is one passage where a good guy kills a bad guy and specifically tries to cope with the fact that god had just commanded him to do something that was earlier disallowed. Situations change. Perhaps Polygamy wasn't really needed any more so god did decide to end it then (it was as good a time as any). Perhaps god told the prophets earlier that they should stop it, but they didn't really listen, perhaps the notion of polygamy really isn't all that important so changing its status wasn't a big issue in the cosmos. IDK, I don't really know all the details of the revocation of polygamy.

So let me ask a question (or two) then. Do you think that your god actually "spoke" to some leader and said, "Hey, it's OK, you don't have to do the polygamy thing anymore if you don't want to so you can become a state."? Or do you feel like it was more of a passive thing, as in the leaders doing away with polygamy and since your god hasn't said anything or interfered with the growth of your religion, then it must be OK?
 

Beev

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2006
7,775
0
0
I'm going to start CSU (Charlie Sheen University) and my rules will be as such:

Bone all of the women you can
Do every drug at least once a week, extra credit for more often
Demand better grades because you deserve them
Cure your ailments with your mind
Call the dean a pussy when things get tough

I believe this school could be very successful.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
So let me ask a question (or two) then. Do you think that your god actually "spoke" to some leader and said, "Hey, it's OK, you don't have to do the polygamy thing anymore if you don't want to so you can become a state."? Or do you feel like it was more of a passive thing, as in the leaders doing away with polygamy and since your god hasn't said anything or interfered with the growth of your religion, then it must be OK?

Good question, and honestly, I really don't know.

I do believe that he has spoken and is speaking to our leaders and that he continues to do so. However, the method of speaking is something that I don't know. It may be that each of them actually hears him, or it may just be a gut feeling that they all act on. I don't know, and to me, it is not so important.

I also don't know if he is telling them exactly what to do always. I think he does leave stuff up to them to figure out on their own.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
Humans and life isn't static, why should religion be? There wasn't computers 200 years ago, so why shouldn't god change morals and standards to encompass a evolving and changing world.

Or, if you are familiar enough with the Book of Mormon, there is one passage where a good guy kills a bad guy and specifically tries to cope with the fact that god had just commanded him to do something that was earlier disallowed. Situations change. Perhaps Polygamy wasn't really needed any more so god did decide to end it then (it was as good a time as any). Perhaps god told the prophets earlier that they should stop it, but they didn't really listen, perhaps the notion of polygamy really isn't all that important so changing its status wasn't a big issue in the cosmos. IDK, I don't really know all the details of the revocation of polygamy.

That god changes his tenats isn't really a big issue for mormons. He has done it in the past (Animal sacrifices to no animal sacrifices) so why not today.

It would be a little arrogant to claim that I know what an all knowing being would and wouldn't do.

But if human beings can alter church doctrine on, what you admitted in a different post, could be a "gut feeling" then the church doesn't stand for anything heavenly or divine. It's a man made institution driven by the fears and desires of men.

An all powerful and all knowing god would not condemn blacks for over 100 years then magically say "oops, my bad" once the Civil Rights movement had occurred.

It would not instruct men to have multiple wives because in the afterlife they will need those many women to populate their own planet then suddenly change its mind when a political issue around statehood and tax exemption arose.

I also highly doubt it would demand members observe the Sabbath on Sundays by not working but if Steve Young wants to play football on Sundays, that's OK.

Above all else, I know an all powerful being would not keep rituals and practices required to reach the highest level of heaven, the Celestial Kingdom, from members who did not bequeath 10% of their gross income to the church. Without giving 10% of their income, members cannot receive a temple recommend which means they cannot participate in sacred rituals such as the Endowment Ceremony or have their marriage sealed in the temple.

That all absolutely reeks of a man made institution based on nothing more than some ideas thought up in someone's head.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,157
18,647
146
you can get kicked out of school for drinking caffeine. what kind of life is that?

That's the straight and narrow, bro!

Like it or not, the kid broke the rules. Sorry, you lose. Next time, play "just the tip"...I don't think that counts as sex..
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
10% giving is not biblical, lot testament the 10% was a sacrifice of that went to noone. Today the teachings of Jesus imply that giving 100% to serving God is a requirement; but none if that must go to the club-house fees that are the church.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
Not reading all 7 pages of this thread, but given what I've seen in the article, I don't think I'd ever want to go to a place like BYU. Fuck that.
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
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Not reading all 7 pages of this thread, but given what I've seen in the article, I don't think I'd ever want to go to a place like BYU. Fuck that.

Change it to 100 posts per page like all the cool kids and you only have 2 pages to read through. Problem solved.
 

RavenSEAL

Diamond Member
Jan 4, 2010
8,661
3
0
What a pathetic joke of an honor code...uhhh, don't have sex or you'll go hell!!! uhhhh!!

People have been having sex way before religion existed, GTFO.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
What a pathetic joke of an honor code...uhhh, don't have sex or you'll go hell!!! uhhhh!!

People have been having sex way before religion existed, GTFO.

BYU isn't the first or the last school to have an honor code. The guy knew what he was signing into.
 

edro

Lifer
Apr 5, 2002
24,326
68
91
America was built on the hatred of tea.
Look at the Boston Tea Party. Those guys hated tea too!