1: Go to BYU. 2: Get a GF 3: Have sex. 4: Get kicked off the bball team

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Alienwho

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
6,766
0
76
So this Mormon concludes the Kinderhook plates are of no consequence because sources are in disagreement over whether a skeleton was buried with the plates and that no translation is shown to have occurred.

This is all an immaterial straw man argument considering Joseph Smith saw the Kinderhook plates, said the symbols were similar to those from the plates he claimed to translate to create the Book of Mormon, and stated he believed he could translate them.

Again, this is clear evidence of the fraudulent origins of the Mormon church. Had Joseph Smith actually seen and translated the golden plates, he would have immediately identified the Kinderhook plates as a fraud, especially since their symbols were based on Chinese symbols copied from teabags while the symbols Joseph Smith claimed to translate were supposedly similar to Egyptian hieroglyphics.

This is the same as with the Book of Abraham which, too, is evidence of his scam since we can now compare the original Egyptian document with the Book of Abraham and can see Joseph Smith's translation is nowhere near what the document actually portrays.
Stop with the hearsay and second hand accounts and read the book for yourself. Believe it or not, mormons aren't stupid. They're one of the most highly educated and culturally savvy demographics in the world. One of the churches top priorities is education(whether you go to BYU or elsewhere) and foreign service mission. They are very well aware of all of your 'proven hoaxes' and other malinformed slander. They're not actually a cult of brainwashed backwoodsmen. The difference is they actually read the book for themselves and made a decision based on that.

What is it about the mormons you find so offensive that you need to convince them otherwise? Their belief system in trying to be upstanding citizens? Their commitment to family? Their commitment to stick to their guns regardless of the worldly consequences (see this thread)?.Their generous nature? The church practically funds the entirety of the Red Cross. Every time a disaster hits the church is the first on the scene with supplies and helping hands, getting there well before the military or any other organization. Please read the book and find all these scary things. The mormons aren't warmongering, they aren't violent. They aren't blowing up buildings or abortion clinics. They're not advocating war. They're just doing their best to live each day better than the day before. Some days they fail, and others they succeed.

At the end of the day you can believe whatever you want and the mormons are totally cool with that. They won't call you stupid or issue a death threat for it either.

PS, all that crap you see on TV with having dozens of wives and marrying 14 year olds are not mormons, it's truly a cult spin off religion that is not affiliated in any way with the church.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
http://newsroom.lds.org/article/150th-anniversary-of-mountain-meadows-massacre
http://lds.org/ensign/2007/09/the-mountain-meadows-massacre?lang=eng

Yep, sucked. To bad it wasn't sanctioned by church leaders. Are you really surprised that people that were just driven out of their homes, torchered, raped, had their leader killed, etc. would all the sudden snap when a group of people that look and sound like those that had earlier attacked them.

Yes, Evil, terrible mormons. They are so militant!

wow talk about mormon spin from your link...

"large majority of perpetrators led decent, nonviolent lives before and after the massacre"

Yea they went nuts and killed people but they weren't that bad. D:
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
Sex is meant only for making babies.Making babies out of wedlock is forbidden.

Again, it goes along with the "can't have fun" lifestyle.

yep, lol, forgot about that idiocy.

The demonization of sex outside of marriage has a long tradition in human history. In fact, sex, in general, seems to historically frowned upon. So many mythological gods throughout history are born of virgins, for example.

Personally, I like the idea of people waiting until marriage to have sex to reduce the number of STDs and unwanted pregnancies but I see nothing wrong with two consenting adults having sex if they feel like it.

Yes, I should have clarified in my original question that it's a theme that belongs not just to mormonism or the abrahamic religions.

I think condoms, BC and abortions do enough to combat STDs and pregnancy.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Stop with the hearsay and second hand accounts and read the book for yourself. Believe it or not, mormons aren't stupid. They're one of the most highly educated and culturally savvy demographics in the world. One of the churches top priorities is education(whether you go to BYU or elsewhere) and foreign service mission. They are very well aware of all of your 'proven hoaxes' and other malinformed slander. They're not actually a cult of brainwashed backwoodsmen. The difference is they actually read the book for themselves and made a decision based on that.

What is it about the mormons you find so offensive that you need to convince them otherwise? Their belief system in trying to be upstanding citizens? Their commitment to family? Their commitment to stick to their guns regardless of the worldly consequences (see this thread)?.Their generous nature? The church practically funds the entirety of the Red Cross. Every time a disaster hits the church is the first on the scene with supplies and helping hands, getting there well before the military or any other organization. Please read the book and find all these scary things. The mormons aren't warmongering, they aren't violent. They aren't blowing up buildings or abortion clinics. They're not advocating war. They're just doing their best to live each day better than the day before. Some days they fail, and others they succeed.

At the end of the day you can believe whatever you want and the mormons are totally cool with that. They won't call you stupid or issue a death threat for it either.

PS, all that crap you see on TV with having dozens of wives and marrying 14 year olds are not mormons, it's truly a cult spin off religion that is not affiliated in any way with the church.


Trying to re-write history are we?

LDS went to Utah as they left Nauvoo where polgamy kept going. The utah LDS even fought the US Gov all the way to the Sup.Court to keep it going. They ONLY reason LDS in utah stopped polygamy was becuse the law said so.

If anything the ones that still do polygamy today are the true LDS members and the ones in Utah are the cult that just changed the religion due to the Fed Gov.
Does not seem like they stuck to their guns in Utah the way you make it sound.
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
29,592
2,257
126
Its like owning a firearm or riding a motorcycle. One wrong move and its a lifetime of pain, redness and bumps or $500 a month child support for 18 years.

It is right to discourage Russian roulette. Also lack of morality "Oh I just wanted to f you, not marry you!"
 
Oct 19, 2000
17,860
4
81
Didn't Brigham Young himself have dozens of wives? I don't think he can really be considered a "cult spin off religion"....
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
lol

I never said any of that.

But, you're right. We should look the other way when an oppressed people murder men, women, and children. Two wrongs make a right.

Woops, Thought it was you that stated in the past that Brigham Young was involved. Sorry about that.

The people that instigated the attack were rightly punished. My statements were only meant to provide a reason for their actions and to show that they weren't just some random nut jobs that one day decided to go out and kill some people (which is how it is often portrayed). This is EXACTLY what you were trying to use the massacre to prove, that somehow the actions of a few mormons 100 years ago means that all mormons are violent.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Didn't Brigham Young himself have dozens of wives? I don't think he can really be considered a "cult spin off religion"....


Yep Smith and Young both had plenty of wives.
The "cult" is what is left in the Utah LDS that bent over and changed their religion as the Fed Gov told them to.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Woops, Thought it was you that stated in the past that Brigham Young was involved. Sorry about that.

The people that instigated the attack were rightly punished. My statements were only meant to provide a reason for their actions and to show that they weren't just some random nut jobs that one day decided to go out and kill some people (which is how it is often portrayed). This is EXACTLY what you were trying to use the massacre to prove, that somehow the actions of a few mormons 100 years ago means that all mormons are violent.

No they were not. Only one person went to trial and was killed for it. ALL the others pretty much got off.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
Didn't Brigham Young himself have dozens of wives? I don't think he can really be considered a "cult spin off religion"....

He did, However, so did moses, abraham, David, and most of the prophets of the old testament. Does that mean that all Christians and Jews currently practice polygamy?

The LDS religion hasn't practiced polygamy for over 100 years now. yet, funnily enough, that is what many people think of when they think mormon.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
No they were not. Only one person went to trial and was killed for it. ALL the others pretty much got off.

Ok, one person was punished. My mistake, thought it was more. That doesn't change the fact that you are trying to use the actions of one small isolated group of people 100 years ago in a pretty dang tough situation to judge a group of over 13 million people.
 

Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,686
126
Its like owning a firearm or riding a motorcycle. One wrong move and its a lifetime of pain, redness and bumps or $500 a month child support for 18 years.

It is right to discourage Russian roulette. Also lack of morality "Oh I just wanted to f you, not marry you!"

So I assume owning firearms and riding motorcycles is also banned by these skeezicks? No? So I guess in those cases people are free to make their own choices and take their own risks? That's pretty nifty.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
19
81
"BYU's honor code also requires students to be honest; abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee and substance abuse; and attend church regularly"

Abstain from tea? Sorry, but the people who run that school are just stupid.

It's the parent's not letting the kids grow up.

Sad that probably everyone of them is doing worse than a kid at a normal school would.

There is a school here called Summit Christian School (SCS which also stood for Sexy Christian Sluts in the late 80's, early 90's when I was plowing through a couple of them as were my buds).

Tiny little school...funny thing was there was one virgin chick out of the entire junior and senior class. The parents all thought they were innocent.

lolz.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
He came forward and admitted it which makes him far more honest and more of a man then the rest of those MORmON hypocrites.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
"BYU's honor code also requires students to be honest; abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee and substance abuse; and attend church regularly"

Abstain from tea? Sorry, but the people who run that school are just stupid.

And people that don't understand how religion works are even more stupid.
 

smitbret

Diamond Member
Jul 27, 2006
3,382
17
81
No caffeine of any kind. It's BYU.

Not quite true. While you will not find caffeinated beverages for sale on the BYU campus, there is nothing in the Mormon religion that forbids the consumption of caffiene. The absence of caffeine on campus is due to the idea that caffeine is an addictive substance and, as such, impairs your ability to choose to drink or not to drink it (kind of an ironic circle). The LDs church is huge on the whole, right to choose our actions and be responsible for your consequences.
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Yep Smith and Young both had plenty of wives.
The "cult" is what is left in the Utah LDS that bent over and changed their religion as the Fed Gov told them to.

Yep, the "religion" spun off what is now considered the "cult". And it's ironic that Smith basically died because of polygamy (he tried to propose to other men's wives). Not very smart.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
8
0
Yep, the "religion" spun off what is now considered the "cult". And it's ironic that Smith basically died because of polygamy (he tried to propose to other men's wives). Not very smart.


Don't hate the player, hate the religion yo. :sneaky:
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
134
106
Yep, the "religion" spun off what is now considered the "cult". And it's ironic that Smith basically died because of polygamy (he tried to propose to other men's wives). Not very smart.

Bullcrap. This is just a load of crap. He didn't die because he proposed to other men's wives. There was a mob of over 100 people that ended up shooting him, there was never a formal reason posted for murder.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
...what always bothers me is people attacking someone because they don't know EVERYTHING about their faith when your faith is a lifelong spiritual education. I do not claim under any circumstance to know it all concerning my faith.
That's fine! You are learning about your church, which is a great thing to do.. Let me lay down my true objection to Mormonism.

1.) I don't care about the multiple heavens, the spirit babies or all that; no more wacky than any other after-life
2.) I don't care about the underwear or any of that, no more silly than other rituals.
3.) I don't even care that blacks didn't get into top-level heaven until the 70s, though I do think this would shake my faith in the "profit" status of the present church leadership.

My real problem is a misunderstanding of grace. The spiritual place that you stand in when doing good works to 'make up' for the bad things you've done makes you the focus. Christ is about making God the focus and letting God work through you, I see the spiritual center of Mormons as being themselves.

BUT I am very open to hearing about how I'm wrong here.
 

Cattykit

Senior member
Nov 3, 2009
521
0
0
...Believe it or not, mormons aren't stupid. They're one of the most highly educated and culturally savvy demographics in the world.

How can a intelligent person believe in Mormonism?
Mormons are stupid for they are mormons, believe it or not.
 

child of wonder

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2006
8,307
176
106
Woops, Thought it was you that stated in the past that Brigham Young was involved. Sorry about that.

The people that instigated the attack were rightly punished. My statements were only meant to provide a reason for their actions and to show that they weren't just some random nut jobs that one day decided to go out and kill some people (which is how it is often portrayed). This is EXACTLY what you were trying to use the massacre to prove, that somehow the actions of a few mormons 100 years ago means that all mormons are violent.

No, that wasn't what I was trying to prove. What I wanted to share was a facet of Mormon history that almost no one knows about. People are free to draw whatever conclusions they want from it.

Before we were married, my wife responded very violently when I first spoke to her about the massacre, just as you did. Raised Mormon, she was taught that those responsible were simply defending themselves because the settlers had attacked them first. Obviously an effort was made to feed her misinformation regarding the event.