1.6Ghz PowerPC G5 is more powerful than 2.8GHz P4!?!?!

[tmanndsu08]

On a different forum an obvious Mac supported said that Macs are a better deal than PC's. So i checked @ Best Buy and, of course, this is what i found:
$1350
2.8GHz Pentium 4, 800MHz FSB
512MB PC2700 DDR
128MB ATi Radeon 9000
160GB HDD

$1800
1.6GHz PowerPC G5, 800MHz FSB
256MB PC2700 DDR
64MB (must be some Apple video card, assume as good as 9000)
80GB HDD

Dispite this, the user went on to say that the CPU was slightly more powerful than the P4.

Say no possible way when the difference is over 1 GHz. Any possible explanation for this?

 

[Lyfer]

Apples vs Oranges.

 

[tmanndsu08]

I know what the difference is between RISC vs. CISC is, if that's what you're refering to.

Can you give me something i can use back on the other forum to shut this guy up?

 

[dkozloski]

Just refer him to Dr. Emilio Bombay's quote that a Mac is a computer-like device for the dimwitted.

 

[tmanndsu08]

Obviously that isn't going to do it.

C'mon guys, someone must have a link to a benchmark or at least something that proves beyond a doubt that G5's are not more powerful than P4's that are running at 1.2GHz faster.

 

[Ant001]

Tell him Mac commercials were banned in the UK because of false advertising. Though really, you shouldn't mind if a little mac user disagrees with you (j/k)

 

[MDE]

Tell him to show you benchmarks of an Opteron\Athlon64 FX against a G5. That'll shut him up.

 

[tmanndsu08]

The computer listed above doesn't have an Athlon 64.

Is it seriously true that a 2.8GHz P4 is less powerful than a 1.6GHz G5?

 

[AIWGuru]

No. It is not true. Also, notice how that more expensive mac has half the ram.
The G5 really isn't a RISC processor though. The term "risc" really doesn't mean much anymore.
Current RISC processors having a far bigger instruction set than CISC processors of not-too long ago.
The power of the G5 is in bitslicing in certain applications.
It's got a very short pipeline and some very good SIMD instructions (although not as good as the G4e's as a result of the Motolla/IBM thing.)
It's good at what it does and can even win a benchmark or two. Some review sites which have benched a dual 2ghzG5 against a single 3.2P4 have shown that it's only about 10% slower. Of course, it takes two CPUs to do that too.
Regardless of the actual processor speed (which is grossly exagerrated) the apple architecture is chunky at best and getting a decent gaming card (or especially a descent 3d api) under mac os is pretty damn hard.
What applications are available for the mac are generally not as fast as their PC counterparts with a few exceptions and there is DEFINITELY less selection.
Macs are slower and cost more money. They're closed and don't have as much software.
Their underlying technology is not as good as that of a PC. Even USB and IEEE1394 transfer rates on a mac are slightly slower than on a PC because of poor chipsets (yes, IEEE1394 does belong to Apple, thanks.)
Let your friend have his apple. Artsy people, stuck up people, and ignorant people like owning them. That's fine. Let them have it. Don't try to argue with them. It's impossible. Just let them have the crap. Enjoy the good stuff and live happy in the knowledge that you truly do have the vastly superior platform.

 

[DaveSimmons]

search "G5" (recent and archived) for endless discussions of P4 vs. Mac.

But the G5, like Athlon XP and 64, is more efficient than intel P4, it does get more work done per MHz of clockspeed.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
search "G5" (recent and archived) for endless discussions of P4 vs. Mac.

But the G5, like Athlon XP and 64, is more efficient than intel P4, it does get more work done per MHz of clockspeed.

that's why even a fast P4 is still slow compared to an Athlon

 

[sharkeeper]

Let your friend have his apple. Artsy people, stuck up people, and ignorant people like owning them. That's fine. Let them have it. Don't try to argue with them. It's impossible. Just let them have the crap. Enjoy the good stuff and live happy in the knowledge that you truly do have the vastly superior platform.

Give this guy a beer!

Cheers!

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: AIWGuru
Let your friend have his apple. Artsy people, stuck up people, and ignorant people like owning them. That's fine. Let them have it. Don't try to argue with them. It's impossible. Just let them have the crap. Enjoy the good stuff and live happy in the knowledge that you truly do have the vastly superior platform.

Then whoop his ass in Quake.

- M4H

 

[mosco]

Originally posted by: AIWGuru
No. It is not true. Also, notice how that more expensive mac has half the ram.
The G5 really isn't a RISC processor though. The term "risc" really doesn't mean much anymore.
Current RISC processors having a far bigger instruction set than CISC processors of not-too long ago.
The power of the G5 is in bitslicing in certain applications.
It's got a very short pipeline and some very good SIMD instructions (although not as good as the G4e's as a result of the Motolla/IBM thing.)
It's good at what it does and can even win a benchmark or two. Some review sites which have benched a dual 2ghzG5 against a single 3.2P4 have shown that it's only about 10% slower. Of course, it takes two CPUs to do that too.
Regardless of the actual processor speed (which is grossly exagerrated) the apple architecture is chunky at best and getting a decent gaming card (or especially a descent 3d api) under mac os is pretty damn hard.
What applications are available for the mac are generally not as fast as their PC counterparts with a few exceptions and there is DEFINITELY less selection.
Macs are slower and cost more money. They're closed and don't have as much software.
Their underlying technology is not as good as that of a PC. Even USB and IEEE1394 transfer rates on a mac are slightly slower than on a PC because of poor chipsets (yes, IEEE1394 does belong to Apple, thanks.)
Let your friend have his apple. Artsy people, stuck up people, and ignorant people like owning them. That's fine. Let them have it. Don't try to argue with them. It's impossible. Just let them have the crap. Enjoy the good stuff and live happy in the knowledge that you truly do have the vastly superior platform.

i own a mac and a pc(athlon Xp 2500+ and abit NF7-S) and i don't consider myself stuckup, artsy or ignorant. Of corse people from both sides are going to argue their stuff is better and Apple has come a long way with the G5. I think you are the ignorant if you think only artsy stuck up people use macs. I wont argue that they are faster than pcs, because for many things are not. BUT, i don't think its fair to call them crap. I find myself using my mac much more than i do my pc. I don't play games much, so that is not a big concern. I do however use my computer to surf the web, do homework, listen to music, edit photos, and the occasional use for making dvds using video of me and my friends doing stupid things. I am not a big fan of windows, its not polished enough for me. I hate the file system, i hate explorer, and many other things about it. Thats not to say mac os x doesn't have it problems, because it is not perfect either, but i like it and thanks for bashing it.

 

[Overkast]

I'm an artsy guy... I work on a G4 at my company, then I come home to my P4 2.4c PC. I love them both. The PC is my gaming/internet rig, the Mac is my graphic design rig.

Both platforms have their purpose. Mac CPUs are better at processing intensive graphic applications, video editing, color matching, and postscript font usage. PCs are better at everything else.

Anyone that knocks a Mac without any facts is ignorant. Anyone that claims Macs are faster than PCs without any facts is also ignorant.

The only person in here that had any credibility in his post was AIWGuru. Everyone else just made Mac cracks (as usual) without substance. That's just weak.

Snot-nosed arrogant PC users are no better than stuck up Mac people. Get a clue.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: tmanndsu08
Obviously that isn't going to do it.

C'mon guys, someone must have a link to a benchmark or at least something that proves beyond a doubt that G5's are not more powerful than P4's that are running at 1.2GHz faster.

there are benches that go either way. its not so simple

 

[Gunnar]

this is such obvious flamebait, i dont know why I bite...

1.2 Ghz of Mhz difference means absolutely squat, it depends on both the architecture and the program writer's programming prowess. Im pretty sure there are a lot of Power4 users out there that are quite happy with their 1.2Ghz parts kicking the stuffing out of everything else.

Though there are very many things the Mac DOES do faster than its competition, for the same two reasons I mentioned above. The architecture of the PowerPC DOES make it a more efficient architecture. Which is why IBM/Motorola use automated tools for processor layout, and AMD/Intel hand layout every part (to squeeze performance from the fab technique). Just imagine where PowerPC would be if the same number of engineers worked on it?

Secondly, Apple and its developers do have the luxury of writing to a consistent platform, hence the applications they do write tend to take advantage of the hardware better. Im sure no one in the x86 programming world writes programs that will take advantage of the AMD x86 pipeline implementation better than the Intel one. PowerPC also carries less weight of the backwards compatible argument. As an engineer who has taken architecture design, its an atrocity that x86 made it this far (and the Alpha didnt, but Ill leave that to another thread/discussion).

I own a mac, Im partial. I wont claim its the fastest machine, but its right for me. In the end, thats all that matters isnt it? But whats pathetic is that many of you havent bothered to use a mac for any extended period of time, and you see fit to pass judgment.

 

[ku]

I think the mac is just more effecient at certain things than PC's... but PC's do a lot more stuff so SCREW YOU MAC

 

[zephyrprime]

simiar stuff

 

[Snoop]

Let your friend have his apple. Artsy people, stuck up people, and ignorant people like owning them. That's fine. Let them have it. Don't try to argue with them. It's impossible. Just let them have the crap. Enjoy the good stuff and live happy in the knowledge that you truly do have the vastly superior platform.

LOL, thats so funny. My boss falls into the 'ignorant' category, the guy has no clue about computers but insists on using a mac because the commercials convinced him they are the best
After using the thing for about a year, it realllllly astounds me to see people defend them, the thing (G4733? Imac) is an absolute piece of sheit, is slow as a dog, and cost him nearly 3500 dollars when you include new versions of software he had to buy to get OSX compliance. ( Photoshop didnt support osx untill the latest version , Sony die sublimation photo printer had to be dumped no osx drivers, every update or 'service pack' which they release every few months of osx 10.1>jaguar>panther)

 

[addragyn]

tmanndsu08 - It sounds as if you need to better understand you own question. Broadly speaking... a 1.6GHz PPC 970 is not more powerful than a 2.8GHz P4. The two dual G5 towers are much more price/performance competitive.

Originally posted by: AIWGuru
No. It is not true. Also, notice how that more expensive mac has half the ram.
The G5 really isn't a RISC processor...

That is an amazing amount of FUD fit into 19 lines.

Mac bashing is so 1997. Go to any OSS convention, notice all the glowing apples. Same at security cons. Check out what the Perl core team is running. Real hackers have taken to OS X like flies to fruit. They have a
damn good 3d API and the video cards to take advantage of it.

There is some very simplistic irony in making generalizations about ignorance.

 

[nick1985]

no chance when the CPU is more than 1Ghz faster eh?

 

[Corporate Thug]

1350 is a rip off for that 2.8 computer

 

[Rogue]

Just send him this this and tell him to shut up. Oh yeah, laugh insanely the whole time and tell him how stupid he is and that he needs to get over his inferiority complex.

Oh, you might also want to send him to this pic too while you're at it.

 

[mrgoblin]

Originally posted by: tmanndsu08
Obviously that isn't going to do it.

C'mon guys, someone must have a link to a benchmark or at least something that proves beyond a doubt that G5's are not more powerful than P4's that are running at 1.2GHz faster.

One your a bafoon. Second its been proven that almost everything is faster than macs.