1-29-07 Kentucky Derby winner Barbaro euthanized

[dmcowen674]

It's OK to kill the horse but not humans suffering.

Why the double standard?

Did the horse suddenly speak after 8 months and say he was in pain and suffering?

Humans in pain and suffering usually are in a state they can't speak.

Even humans that can speak that they are in pain and suffering are ignored.

Here take another morphine shot and shut up.

1-29-2007 Kentucky Derby winner Barbaro euthanized

KENNETT SQUARE, Pa. - Kentucky Derby winner Barbaro was euthanized Monday after complications from his gruesome breakdown at last year's Preakness, ending an eight-month ordeal that prompted an outpouring of support across the country.

"We just reached a point where it was going to be difficult for him to go on without pain," co-owner Roy Jackson said. "It was the right decision, it was the right thing to do. We said all along if there was a situation where it would become more difficult for him then it would be time."

Barbaro responded well to treatment, but he began to struggle in January with a serious laminitis setback and this final, fatal turn.

 

[JD50]

Its OK to eat cows but not humans, why the double standard?

 

[GDaddy]

No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

No 2: Are you saying we should have kept the horse alive or that we should murder all coma patients? Are you saying Kavorkian(sp) was right or wrong?

 

[TraumaRN]

Considering I work in a trauma hospital I feel the need to comment.

First off, medicine focuses on human beings first, other animals second. Therefore we know how to treat our own much better than horses. And on that note people can better tolerate being sedated, intubated etc than horses(and other animals).

We often keep people sedated, intubated and usually/possibly on a continous opiate drip(usually fentanyl or something similar) therefore human patients in the ICU do not 'suffer' as much you'd think.

I split time right now between a neurotrauma ICU and an ER in an inner city trauma hospital(as many know on this forum). People do suffer all the time you are correct, but comparing horse anatomy to human anatomy is really apples to oranges....they may both be fruits but thats about it. And in essence people still value human life more than animal life...we don't want to see the animal suffer....and reality is most 4 legged animals if they can't walk, they can't live. Human beings are much different in that end. And given modern medicine people can make miraculous recoveries and as a rule people don't mind the suffering if they know they are getting better....of course sometimes they don't get better but we still feel like living is the better option(trying not to be political).

In a word.....quality of life is easier to manage in humans than it is in animals.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: JD50
Its OK to eat cows but not humans, why the double standard?

Humans are to tough to eat. Although I bet vegitarians would be nice and yummy.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

QFT.

Plus the fact that the incident happened at the Preakness on national TV. If this was any second grade type race not covered on ESPN, etc. then he probably would have been put down on the spot.

 

[IdaGno]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

Now if we could just euthanize the bastards responsible for not putting him down on race day. Barbaro's treatment since race day, keeping him alive only hoping to make a buck from sperm doning or stud services, should be considered criminally inhumane.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: IdaGno

Originally posted by: GDaddy
No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

Now if we could just euthanize the bastards responsible for not putting him down on race day. Barbaro's treatment since race day, keeping him alive only hoping to make a buck from sperm doning or stud services, should be considered criminally inhumane.

Wow, next time you break a toe you should be put down on the spot eh?

 

[Bitek]

Would have been worth millions as a stud...

I don't understand why they can't just whack is leg off and give him a peg.

 

[glutenberg]

They need to develop horse wheelchairs.

 

[Schadenfroh]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: JD50
Its OK to eat cows but not humans, why the double standard?

Humans are to tough to eat. Although I bet vegitarians would be nice and yummy.

Man Beef

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: IdaGno

Originally posted by: GDaddy
No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

Now if we could just euthanize the bastards responsible for not putting him down on race day. Barbaro's treatment since race day, keeping him alive only hoping to make a buck from sperm doning or stud services, should be considered criminally inhumane.

Wow, next time you break a toe you should be put down on the spot eh?

You are showing your ignorance yet again (big surprise), a human breaking their toe and a horse breaking their leg are completely different events. Generally, horses die when they break their leg, better for them to be put down early than wallow in pain until they die of infection, etc.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

This is absolutely bullshit, although several people seem to be buying into it.

Basically the horse owners did what is fairly common for valuable race horses and had a 25 to 30 million dollar insurance policy on Barbaro in the event of catastrophic injury during a race. The moment Barbaro died, the owners are now able to collect on that insurance.
http://www.wmdt.com/topstory/topstory.asp?id=2539

(While I don't know the exact terms, an injury as serious as Barbaro's would have been enough to justify promptly euthanising the horse and be able to collect on the insurance money.)

Given the long odds of Barbaro recovering enough to mount female horses in the future, (due to horse racing rules artificial insemination is not allowed for producing horses that can compete in horse races) and the huge medical costs for trying to keep Barbaro alive in the facilities in question, from a business perspective the smart decision would have been to presumably promptly put down the horse. Sentimental reasons were the primary reason the owners choose to put all the effort into trying to save the horse, although its possible a desire to be seen favorably by the general public also motivated the owners.

 

[Aegeon]

Originally posted by: IdaGno
Now if we could just euthanize the bastards responsible for not putting him down on race day. Barbaro's treatment since race day, keeping him alive only hoping to make a buck from sperm doning or stud services, should be considered criminally inhumane.

That's a pretty disgusting assumption. As I noted from a business perspective putting him down at the time would have made more sense since the owners did have an effective insurance policy covering the horse. Given the extensive costs of trying to get Barbaro to recover enough medically to mount a horse in the future and the long odds against success, the sensible decision from a business perspective would have been to simply initially put him down. The reasons for not doing so were purely sentimental, and all the evidence is Barbaro was not really in all that excessive discomfort until the very end when they decided to put him down.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: IdaGno

Originally posted by: GDaddy
No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

Now if we could just euthanize the bastards responsible for not putting him down on race day. Barbaro's treatment since race day, keeping him alive only hoping to make a buck from sperm doning or stud services, should be considered criminally inhumane.

Wow, next time you break a toe you should be put down on the spot eh?

Well excuuuuuuuse me God.

You are showing your ignorance yet again (big surprise), a human breaking their toe and a horse breaking their leg are completely different events. Generally, horses die when they break their leg, better for them to be put down early than wallow in pain until they die of infection, etc.

 

[Stunt]

a) It's a horse - not comparable to humans
b) I support euthanasia under certain circumstances

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Considering I work in a trauma hospital I feel the need to comment.

First off, medicine focuses on human beings first, other animals second. Therefore we know how to treat our own much better than horses. And on that note people can better tolerate being sedated, intubated etc than horses(and other animals).

We often keep people sedated, intubated and usually/possibly on a continous opiate drip(usually fentanyl or something similar) therefore human patients in the ICU do not 'suffer' as much you'd think.

I split time right now between a neurotrauma ICU and an ER in an inner city trauma hospital(as many know on this forum). People do suffer all the time you are correct, but comparing horse anatomy to human anatomy is really apples to oranges....they may both be fruits but thats about it. And in essence people still value human life more than animal life...we don't want to see the animal suffer....and reality is most 4 legged animals if they can't walk, they can't live. Human beings are much different in that end. And given modern medicine people can make miraculous recoveries and as a rule people don't mind the suffering if they know they are getting better....of course sometimes they don't get better but we still feel like living is the better option(trying not to be political).

In a word.....quality of life is easier to manage in humans than it is in animals.

Well said. It didn't really address the larger issue of euthanasia, but it answered the question posted very nicely.

 

[TraumaRN]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: DeathBUA
Considering I work in a trauma hospital I feel the need to comment.

First off, medicine focuses on human beings first, other animals second. Therefore we know how to treat our own much better than horses. And on that note people can better tolerate being sedated, intubated etc than horses(and other animals).

We often keep people sedated, intubated and usually/possibly on a continous opiate drip(usually fentanyl or something similar) therefore human patients in the ICU do not 'suffer' as much you'd think.

I split time right now between a neurotrauma ICU and an ER in an inner city trauma hospital(as many know on this forum). People do suffer all the time you are correct, but comparing horse anatomy to human anatomy is really apples to oranges....they may both be fruits but thats about it. And in essence people still value human life more than animal life...we don't want to see the animal suffer....and reality is most 4 legged animals if they can't walk, they can't live. Human beings are much different in that end. And given modern medicine people can make miraculous recoveries and as a rule people don't mind the suffering if they know they are getting better....of course sometimes they don't get better but we still feel like living is the better option(trying not to be political).

In a word.....quality of life is easier to manage in humans than it is in animals.

Well said. It didn't really address the larger issue of euthanasia, but it answered the question posted very nicely.

Well euthanasia is not something I consider while working in a hospital. It's not legal, and while we may talk about it(as staff) and while we think it's horrible how some families want everything done despite the fact that their family member will never get better...I still gotta say that euthanasia is much more realistic in animals than it ever will be in humans.

Human beings just have a better knack for surviving serious injuries given the right treatment....animals not so much so.

We tend to look at the idea of quality of life. This often is a basic way to guide our care. However most families don't always think quality of life....they just wanted their family member to be alive...even if vegetative just see the Terry Schaivo case for that.

Working the neurotrauma ICU today...we had two patients with intracranial bleeds....one patient we just turned to comfort measures for her because she wasn't getting better, her brain was literally half dead on EEG and she wont ever get better. Now it's just a waiting game to she passes. Thats quality of life. The other patient we extubated the breathing tube/ventilator, stopped her sedation and 6 hours later she was talking to us, feeding herself, etc. She just needed a week of sedation/pain control for her body and brain to heal and she's going to be alright...probably 3-6 months of physical therapy but we knew she was getting better and continued treatment knowing her quality of life would be improved over time.

Those kinda things...you cant always do with most animals. And most animals cannot tolerate that kind of treatment. Oh and what makes it most difficult....animals can't talk and tell us whats wrong. We can only read their body language.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

No 2: Are you saying we should have kept the horse alive or that we should murder all coma patients? Are you saying Kavorkian(sp) was right or wrong?

Yes they made millions in stud fees during that 8 months.

 

[ScottMac]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: GDaddy
No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

No 2: Are you saying we should have kept the horse alive or that we should murder all coma patients? Are you saying Kavorkian(sp) was right or wrong?

Yes they made millions in stud fees during that 8 months.

NO, they almost certainly didn't.

Thouroughbreds can only be studded live ... no sperm donation / artificial insemination.

With his broken leg, he would not have been able to mount (it would have been, at the least, painful ... and at worse putting the mending bone at serious risk).

Very sad.

FWIW

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: IdaGno

Originally posted by: GDaddy
No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

Now if we could just euthanize the bastards responsible for not putting him down on race day. Barbaro's treatment since race day, keeping him alive only hoping to make a buck from sperm doning or stud services, should be considered criminally inhumane.

Wow, next time you break a toe you should be put down on the spot eh?

You are showing your ignorance yet again (big surprise), a human breaking their toe and a horse breaking their leg are completely different events. Generally, horses die when they break their leg, better for them to be put down early than wallow in pain until they die of infection, etc.

Well excuuuuuuuse me God.

I fixed your attempt to respond using the quote feature. Anyways, you are ridiculous. While we are on the topic, comparing a dog pound and an orphanage, should we just put down all of the orphans that don't get adopted in seven days like we do dogs? Are you going to admit that there is a difference between an animal life and a human life? Are you so bored that you really need to come up with ridiculous posts like this to fill up your day?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
No 1: The only reason they kept the horse alive as long as they did, is so they can make money on him as a sperm donor.

Oh, really?

Another sign that the effort to save Kentucky Derby winner Barbaro isn't just a matter of dollars-and-cents: His owner, Gretchen Jackson, said Barbaro was insured, and that the premiums grew after he won the Florida Derby and the Kentucky Derby -- victories that made him worth many millions of dollars at stud.

One horse breeder said if Roy and Gretchen Jackson had decided not to go through the expense of trying to save their horse after his severe injuries in the Preakness, they could have simply gone to the insurance company and collected -- and "there would be no questions."

There's also an insurance policy that will pay them if Barbaro survives but is unable to be bred to mares.

Doctors have said his badly injured right hind leg may not be able to support his weight during the breeding process.

On the other hand, if his recovery goes well, they say he could be on the stud farm by next spring.

Jackson said her only hope for him is "that he lives a painless life."

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: JD50

Its OK to eat cows but not humans, why the double standard?

We are not civilized enough to eat our own. We would profane the dead not cherish them.

 

[IdaGno]

I'm no vet, so I don't know the difference here, but I recall seeing some film footage of a race horese w/a stainless steel right hind quarter, from the knee down. Think Charles Kuralt highlighted the beast during one of his On-The-Road pieces. Like Barbaro, he was kept alive as a money making sperm bank. Don't recall if he was able to mount the mares, tho I think maybe he was able to do so. Either way, I figured they'd quickly do something like that w/Barbaro, or put him down, but for reason unknown to me, they obviously chose PLAN C. Keeping him alive in such an unviable condition, only with an eye towrd maybe making a dollar three eighty, seems typical of the mercenary and decadent times in which we live.

& yeah, as far as I'm concerned, it's Saint Kevorkian.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
It's OK to kill the horse but not humans suffering.

For all the liberal complaining about us seeing in only black and white, you sure do enjoy emulating the very trait so many claim to despise.