“We are desperate—desperate for more immigrants”

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,077
37,268
136
As an advocate for sustainability, I view population increase as an existential threat to our survival. I want NO additional people. Period.

All Immigration should be slashed to thousands, from millions.

Or we could lower US carbon intensity, which is absurd compared to Europe and Asia, through rational policy. Effectively decoupling economic growth from carbon emissions is the goal people should have their sights on.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Ignoring the context of the broader issues is why the issues at hand exist to begin with.

It's still a diversion in this case. He isn't so much trying to address the context as trying to shift the focus to the context at the expense of problems that need to be dealt with right now.

As a parallel, imagine there's a thread about which Democratic candidate should win to end the Trump regime and restore functional democracy. 1prophet is That Guy who comes in and says "don't vote! The whole system is broken, maaaaaan." Okay, maybe it is, but that doesn't change that the US is suffering under the Trump regime right now, and the Democrats are the best solution to turning things around in the short term.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
It's still a diversion in this case. He isn't so much trying to address the context as trying to shift the focus to the context at the expense of problems that need to be dealt with right now.

As a parallel, imagine there's a thread about which Democratic candidate should win to end the Trump regime and restore functional democracy. 1prophet is That Guy who comes in and says "don't vote! The whole system is broken, maaaaaan." Okay, maybe it is, but that doesn't change that the US is suffering under the Trump regime right now, and the Democrats are the best solution to turning things around in the short term.
But not all Democrats are the best solution, and I doubt many Trump supporters would say they are suffering. I know the investor class quite likes what Trump is doing, which is why he was able to host a fundraiser in Beverly Hills of all places, and why there is a chance he might win a second term.

Trump is a symptom, not the underlying disease. Some Democrat candidates are looking to tackle the underlying disease. Others are focused on the symptoms, but that is because they too are part of the underlying disease.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,937
9,220
136
As an advocate for sustainability, I view population increase as an existential threat to our survival. I want NO additional people. Period.

All Immigration should be slashed to thousands, from millions.

Now that’s a Pro Choice argument if I ever saw one.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
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So whats the overall consensus of everyone on if we do or do not need more immigration?

I keep hearing, WHO WILL PICK OUR FRUITS?! Who will clean shit up?

Yet at the same time we hear the message of automation is taking all the low skill jobs!

So which is it ? Do we need UBI because we will have a useless labor pool? Or do we need more people for standard labor?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,222
10,877
136
So whats the overall consensus of everyone on if we do or do not need more immigration?

I keep hearing, WHO WILL PICK OUR FRUITS?! Who will clean shit up?

Yet at the same time we hear the message of automation is taking all the low skill jobs!

So which is it ? Do we need UBI because we will have a useless labor pool? Or do we need more people for standard labor?
That's what the deal will be. White people don't do that kind of work anymore. So, it's either immigration, or automation.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
27,648
26,746
136
So whats the overall consensus of everyone on if we do or do not need more immigration?

I keep hearing, WHO WILL PICK OUR FRUITS?! Who will clean shit up?

Yet at the same time we hear the message of automation is taking all the low skill jobs!

So which is it ? Do we need UBI because we will have a useless labor pool? Or do we need more people for standard labor?
Your opinion is?
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
And on top of that, what I find pretty comical is that someone like Bernie even understands himself that immigration is not a step in the right direction if you want $15/hour minimum wage for cleaning up shit.

Hilarious how corporations have brainwashed folks under the guise of caring for illegals - yet it's the cause and reason that wages haven't drastically increased. Lower supply of workers. Wages go up. It isn't difficult.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
That's what the deal will be. White people don't do that kind of work anymore. So, it's either immigration, or automation.

Go live somewhere that isn't a major urban city that is home to lots of 1st generation immigrants. You will be SHOCKED to find that all the hotels are still fully staffed with maid service, janitors, etc... No really! It's amazing!
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,222
10,877
136
Go live somewhere that isn't a major urban city that is home to lots of 1st generation immigrants. You will be SHOCKED to find that all the hotels are still fully staffed with maid service, janitors, etc... No really! It's amazing!
Well unemployment out in the sticks is that bad then. First generation in America? So whites in other words.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
48,077
37,268
136
But not all Democrats are the best solution, and I doubt many Trump supporters would say they are suffering. I know the investor class quite likes what Trump is doing, which is why he was able to host a fundraiser in Beverly Hills of all places, and why there is a chance he might win a second term.

Trump is a symptom, not the underlying disease. Some Democrat candidates are looking to tackle the underlying disease. Others are focused on the symptoms, but that is because they too are part of the underlying disease.

The rich enclaves of this country (even in the most liberal cities) have never lacked for wealthy conservative assholes or at least people who put their own self interest above all other considerations, that almost is the defining characteristic of the wealthy after all.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
But not all Democrats are the best solution, and I doubt many Trump supporters would say they are suffering. I know the investor class quite likes what Trump is doing, which is why he was able to host a fundraiser in Beverly Hills of all places, and why there is a chance he might win a second term.

Trump is a symptom, not the underlying disease. Some Democrat candidates are looking to tackle the underlying disease. Others are focused on the symptoms, but that is because they too are part of the underlying disease.

Define the underlying disease.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
And on top of that, what I find pretty comical is that someone like Bernie even understands himself that immigration is not a step in the right direction if you want $15/hour minimum wage for cleaning up shit.

Hilarious how corporations have brainwashed folks under the guise of caring for illegals - yet it's the cause and reason that wages haven't drastically increased. Lower supply of workers. Wages go up. It isn't difficult.

Cool story, Bro. Too bad it just doesn't work that way. If undocumented workers depressed wages then rents wouldn't be sky high in the places where they live.


Your theory doesn't match reality.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Cool story, Bro. Too bad it just doesn't work that way. If undocumented workers depressed wages then rents wouldn't be sky high in the places where they live.


Your theory doesn't match reality.

lol.

Bro.

Seriously..... Bro....

You can't be serious?

You're equating a cost of living with immigration as if it has much to do with it? You like to equate apples to potatoes don'tcha?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
lol.

Bro.

Seriously..... Bro....

You can't be serious?

You're equating a cost of living with immigration as if it has much to do with it? You like to equate apples to potatoes don'tcha?

Le Whoosh! If undocumented immigrants depressed wages then that in turn would depress rents. It can be no other way. Yet rents are the highest in cities where they live. Therefore the contention that they depress wages has no basis in fact.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,117
10,937
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Le Whoosh! If undocumented immigrants depressed wages then that in turn would depress rents. It can be no other way. Yet rents are the highest in cities where they live. Therefore the contention that they depress wages has no basis in fact.

how does someone working for less than minimum wage not depress wages by default?

if i want to keep strawberries at $5/pint or whatever they cost, and they're ungodly difficult to pick, my options are to

a) raise my wages until i attract people to do backbreaking work, which in turn raises the price of my strawberries (or i'm no longer profitable)

or b) employ illegal immigrants and pay them less than the market would otherwise dictate.

does this mean a strawberry picker is going to be making bank? probably not. but if the labor is that difficult, then wages should reflect the difficulty of the labor.

a quick google indicates strawberry pickers can expect about $19-21k/year
 

Maxima1

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
3,538
759
146
Le Whoosh! If undocumented immigrants depressed wages then that in turn would depress rents. It can be no other way. Yet rents are the highest in cities where they live. Therefore the contention that they depress wages has no basis in fact.

lol You can't even live in those places with the bottom jobs. Rents will be as high as they can possibly extract. Doesn't matter to the monopolist landlord that it takes up the bulk of your paycheck if they're able to extract more monies from those with the higher paying jobs. See ND oil boom and rents, for example.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
how does someone working for less than minimum wage not depress wages by default?

if i want to keep strawberries at $5/pint or whatever they cost, and they're ungodly difficult to pick, my options are to

a) raise my wages until i attract people to do backbreaking work, which in turn raises the price of my strawberries (or i'm no longer profitable)

or b) employ illegal immigrants and pay them less than the market would otherwise dictate.

does this mean a strawberry picker is going to be making bank? probably not. but if the labor is that difficult, then wages should reflect the difficulty of the labor.

a quick google indicates strawberry pickers can expect about $19-21k/year

There are no strawberry pickers in the major metro areas where the vast majority of undocumented workers reside. See my link above.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
lol You can't even live in those places with the bottom jobs. Rents will be as high as they can possibly extract. Doesn't matter to the monopolist landlord that it takes up the bulk of your paycheck if they're able to extract more monies from those with the higher paying jobs. See ND oil boom and rents, for example.

Excuse me, but 10% of the population of greater LA is undocumented & rents are exorbitant throughout the region. Every city on this list has a high % of undocumented residents-


First, observe reality. Then create theories that actually explain it.