‘Empires disappear’

[NAC4EV]

Jean Chretien says rise of Donald Trump heralds end of the American empire

OTTAWA — Jean Chretien says Donald Trump is “unspeakable” and his rise to the U.S. presidency heralds the decline of the American empire.

On the world's stage the American President has been mocked as a fool.

"It's been very sad to observe the monumental error our neighbors to the south made in November 2016," he writes in a later chapter, in which he recounts happy times he and his wife, Aline, have spent with former U.S. president Bill Clinton and his wife, Hillary, who was defeated by Trump.

Chretien unleashes that unflattering opinion of Trump in a new book of anecdotes from his 10 years as Canada’s prime minister.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Don't worry our species is close behind.

 

[IronWing]

Meh, the decline of the American Empire started with the beginning of the Cold War. When economic prowess and ingenuity gave way to raw militarism in spreading American influence abroad, the fate of the empire was sealed. Empires need to make money at being empires to survive. Once the cost of growing/maintaining the empire exceeds the benefits, the empire is finished though it may take a very, very long time to die.

 

[Commodus]

The sad thing is, you could see this coming with the increasing emphasis on American exceptionalism... it reminds me a little too much of the Roman hubris and complacency in its later stages. A truly healthy country doesn't act as if it's already perfect, or needs to turn back the clock to a golden era that never existed; it's always humble and ever-evolving.

 

[yllus]

The sad thing is, you could see this coming with the increasing emphasis on American exceptionalism... it reminds me a little too much of the Roman hubris and complacency in its later stages. A truly healthy country doesn't act as if it's already perfect, or needs to turn back the clock to a golden era that never existed; it's always humble and ever-evolving.

I'm amazed, considering what we've known for hundreds of years about Rome, that America styled its government after the Roman model as much as it did. An elected President who's voted for separately from a nation's parliament is just asking for trouble if you ask me.

 

[Indus]

The sad thing is, you could see this coming with the increasing emphasis on American exceptionalism... it reminds me a little too much of the Roman hubris and complacency in its later stages. A truly healthy country doesn't act as if it's already perfect, or needs to turn back the clock to a golden era that never existed; it's always humble and ever-evolving.

You don't even have to think so far back. Just think of the British Empire.. how the mighty have fallen.. they don't own Hong Kong anymore.. and even Argentina created a major headache for them in the Falklands War. Now they're faced with losing Scotland and Northern Ireland over Brexit.

The authoritarian ethnic puritans always end up in a country that end up much smaller than it began with. I wouldn't be surprised if that is where we ended up. We don't think alike and we have people fully endorsing Russian propaganda and division over American patriotism. Trump has truly ripped our country apart at the seams like it is a baseball to him.

 

[Commodus]

I'm amazed, considering what we've known for hundreds of years about Rome, that America styled its government after the Roman model as much as it did. An elected President who's voted for separately from a nation's parliament is just asking for trouble if you ask me.

You can probably chalk it up to 18th century romanticization of all things Roman.

 

[Lanyap]

Former liberal Canadian politician releases new book. Are liberal Canadians actually conservatives? I'll have to ask my Canadian snow bird neighbors when they come down later this month. They bring me real Canadian Crown Royal and Gibson's Finest and not the US version.

 

[alcoholbob]

Neoconservatives have been guaranteeing the decline of the American empire for decades by hollowing out the country with micro-militarism.

 

[Atreus21]

They should build a wall.

 

[WelshBloke]

I'm amazed, considering what we've known for hundreds of years about Rome, that America styled its government after the Roman model as much as it did. An elected President who's voted for separately from a nation's parliament is just asking for trouble if you ask me.

The Republic lasted 500 years and the Empire lasted another 500, the Romans did ok.

 

[rommelrommel]

Former liberal Canadian politician releases new book. Are liberal Canadians actually conservatives? I'll have to ask my Canadian snow bird neighbors when they come down later this month. They bring me real Canadian Crown Royal and Gibson's Finest and not the US version.

Liberal party usually campaigns left and rules from the right in Canada. Chrétien was pretty fiscally conservative.

 

[Mai72]

A country is born stoic and dies epicurean.
~Will Durant

All countries eventually end, or they at least be one former shells of themselves. What does America look like in 500 years from now? I don't think America will self implode. I also don't this k the decline will happen during our life time. That takes many centuries..

 

[NostaSeronx]

I think the mocking is a foolish thing to do to Trump. He did in fact get mocked by Obama, and guess where he is today. If the 2018 mid-term goes bad for Democrats with Republicans taking a negligible hit or win. Trump will then be good to do whatever he wants in the last two years of his first term.

Trump under the world's ridicule is the perpetual underdog that America will naturally support. For all it is worth Trump via the Apprentice made him a national icon. That recognition got him to be President, and if the Democrats fail to provide someone similar in 2020. Well, Trump will be getting a second term in the decade where the world has caught up.

 

[Commodus]

I think the mocking is a foolish thing to do to Trump. He did in fact get mocked by Obama, and guess where he is today. If the 2018 mid-term goes bad for Democrats with Republicans taking a negligible hit or win. Trump will then be good to do whatever he wants in the last two years of his first term.

Trump under the world's ridicule is the perpetual underdog that America will naturally support. For all it is worth Trump via the Apprentice made him a national icon. That recognition got him to be President, and if the Democrats fail to provide someone similar in 2020. Well, Trump will be getting a second term in the decade where the world has caught up.

The Democrats need someone charismatic; they absolutely don't want someone similar, because that means getting someone who's incompetent, corrupt, petty and a habitual liar. They need someone more like Obama... that is, has a distinct personality, but also seeks to elevate the political discourse rather than lower it, like Trump and all modern Republicans do.

 

[UNCjigga]

Liberal party usually campaigns left and rules from the right in Canada. Chrétien was pretty fiscally conservative.

I think you're thinking of the Progressive Conservatives aka Tories. The Liberal party are typically centrists, hence why Chretien is so fond of the Clintons. Back when I lived in Canada, in pre-Reform party times, PC were the "Republicans", NDP were the "Democrats" (but never held a majority), and Liberals were the centrists.

If Canadians think the US empire is disappearing...where does that leave Canada? I don't think they'd ever join the EU (especially not post-Brexit) but I could see them becoming much more closely aligned with the UK.

 

[sandorski]

I think you're thinking of the Progressive Conservatives aka Tories. The Liberal party are typically centrists, hence why Chretien is so fond of the Clintons. Back when I lived in Canada, in pre-Reform party times, PC were the "Republicans", NDP were the "Democrats" (but never held a majority), and Liberals were the centrists.

If Canadians think the US empire is disappearing...where does that leave Canada? I don't think they'd ever join the EU (especially not post-Brexit) but I could see them becoming much more closely aligned with the UK.

If the US Empires collapses, that leaves the EU or China as potential replacements. It really depends though, "collapse" does not mean extinction. It may just mean that it no longer stands above as a Super Power, it could still be a Major Power. I suspect Canada would take damage as a result, you can't ignore geographical location, but eventually the US would stabilize and Canada along with others would adjust with the new paradigms that brings about.

 

[trenchfoot]

Looking at the trend line in regard to the presidents the Repubs have managed to fake their way into office, it seems to me the next Repub they put up will actually be able to seize control of the nation like Trump so desperately wants to do but does not have the charisma nor the backing of the very wealthy folks who can make it happen. The GOP will get it right sooner or later. They have to because they're being outnumbered by the birthrate wars.

In America, we would not stand for a fascist bloody coup like the days of old in the other continents. In America all it takes is for another guy just like Trump preaching to a bunch of conservative idiots just like Trump's base who yearn for the good 'ol days way back in the 1850's when it was just those white folks from Ireland that were the latest edition of those spooky foreign immigrants who were going to rape and plunder the nation.

 

[rommelrommel]

I think you're thinking of the Progressive Conservatives aka Tories. The Liberal party are typically centrists, hence why Chretien is so fond of the Clintons. Back when I lived in Canada, in pre-Reform party times, PC were the "Republicans", NDP were the "Democrats" (but never held a majority), and Liberals were the centrists.

If Canadians think the US empire is disappearing...where does that leave Canada? I don't think they'd ever join the EU (especially not post-Brexit) but I could see them becoming much more closely aligned with the UK.

I live here. The NDP are loons and the LPC hasn’t enacted a progressive policy in decades. They are centrists by virtue of having a left and centre right party flanking them on each side but in the last election they ran further to the left than the NDP and the NDP ran as pretty much centrists. Since taking power the liberals have dropped most of their progressive promises and have ruled from the center-centre/right. Our parties agree on so much that you can’t really make US style distinctions between them.

Where is Canada headed if the US falls? Probably being a client state of the PRC.

 

[Maxima1]

The Democrats need someone charismatic; they absolutely don't want someone similar, because that means getting someone who's incompetent, corrupt, petty and a habitual liar. They need someone more like Obama... that is, has a distinct personality, but also seeks to elevate the political discourse rather than lower it, like Trump and all modern Republicans do.

We need someone who will take drastic measures to correct the bullshit. We don't need another pushover like Obama.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I think you're thinking of the Progressive Conservatives aka Tories. The Liberal party are typically centrists, hence why Chretien is so fond of the Clintons. Back when I lived in Canada, in pre-Reform party times, PC were the "Republicans", NDP were the "Democrats" (but never held a majority), and Liberals were the centrists.

If Canadians think the US empire is disappearing...where does that leave Canada? I don't think they'd ever join the EU (especially not post-Brexit) but I could see them becoming much more closely aligned with the UK.

Just an fyi, Federally there is no Progressive Conservative Party any more (still are some provincial Progressive Conservative Parties though). When they amalgamated with the Reform Party the new name became the Conservative Party of Canada and they are a long ways from the Old PCs.

Also, Canada and Britain aren't particularly close anymore and I don't see that changing.

 

[yllus]

If Canadians think the US empire is disappearing...where does that leave Canada? I don't think they'd ever join the EU (especially not post-Brexit) but I could see them becoming much more closely aligned with the UK.

EU membership isn't out of the question. But we have a brand new free trade agreement (CETA) which takes a lot of the impetus for membership away.

That said - while maybe an unpopular opinion, the major thing Canada needs to be a major player is simply... more people. Doubling our population from ~40 million to 80 million would do wonders. EU membership could greatly assist in that goal.

 

[nickqt]

Empires have always and will always fall.

Empires are held together by military and economic power, and they continually require expansion. The expansion requires the hollowing out of the geopolitical entity that came before Empire, to fund the expansion. It's what many of you have witnessed for the past 80+ years, here at home.

Eventually, Empire implodes under its own weight. Always have, always will.

What intelligently run Empires do is avoid implosion by controlling the shedding of the parts of the Empire that are not worth holding onto. It's never particularly pretty for the subjects of the areas of Empire that are shed, but it's a whole lot better than an Empire going out of its way to hold onto something it can no longer hold onto, and exploding.

What any Empire should have, during its final days as an Empire, are people who understand this.

We do not have those kinds of people at the helm.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I think the mocking is a foolish thing to do to Trump. He did in fact get mocked by Obama, and guess where he is today. If the 2018 mid-term goes bad for Democrats with Republicans taking a negligible hit or win. Trump will then be good to do whatever he wants in the last two years of his first term.

Trump under the world's ridicule is the perpetual underdog that America will naturally support. For all it is worth Trump via the Apprentice made him a national icon. That recognition got him to be President, and if the Democrats fail to provide someone similar in 2020. Well, Trump will be getting a second term in the decade where the world has caught up.

Oh please, without Republican and Russian work (which took decades to setup) and luck, Turmp never sniffs office. Even then he barely won. And it was clear that Republicans and Turmp were not expecting or prepared for him to win. And both still don't even know how to handle it, so they're just trying to get what advantages they can out of it before it all goes to shit (just like both regularly do, be it Republican policies or Turmp's business). And even then its a perpetual shitshow where their true intent shines through, so its undermining them constantly.

Not when Americans are ridiculing him more than anybody. But he's that really racist or other fucked up, not actually a joke but rather revealing their actual feelings, type of joke that awful people say. That's where Republicans are. And in my experience doing that kind of thing tends to make people abandon ship. There hasn't even been time for his policies to properly fuck things up (hasn't stopped them from trying though), but they will.

And then there will be ample evidence of just how horrendous Republican policies are, that you can slot in your old grandpa (Reagan), your bumbling doofus but "well meaning" brother/cousin (Bush Jr), or you can let your legit psychotic uncle (Turmp) run things, but they all get the same results because the policies are fundamentally flawed/broken/bad. Add in that they tripled down and were unrepentant assholes, and the open contempt for Americans they regularly show. One of two things happen, America is done, or Americans take some goddamn responsibility and do something about it. This isn't the first time we've been faced with such peril, but it is probably only the 2nd time we have without it being literal war and people's lives on the line. So it'll be interesting to see how Americans respond. I'm...not expecting much to be frank.

But, maybe I'll get to laugh because we do respond well, and in the future there will be people trying to give Turmp credit for playing Devil's Advocate, like he's Satan from the South Park movie "without evil there can be no good so it must be good to be evil sometiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiimes!"

We need someone who will take drastic measures to correct the bullshit. We don't need another pushover like Obama.

No, Americans need to get over their fucking desperation for a messiah and come to grips with the fact that we have a role in these issues.

 

[Maxima1]

No, Americans need to get over their fucking desperation for a messiah

What do you mean they want a "messiah"?. What has happened that you think supports this statement?

and come to grips with the fact that we have a role in these issues.

This below is how it has always been. The older people voting routinely now used to be like the younger generation today. To get out of this is simple -- pack the court to neutralize the hostile SC and pass voter rights reform that will improve participation significantly.