Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[coercitiv]

Since ASML makes all of the machinery to mass produce these chip patterns if a couple of companies each have the latest and greatest how is anyone in the lead? Or is the machinery only half the battle and the rest is knowing how to use it?

Some assembly required. Recipe book not included.

 

[Thunder 57]

Hyperthreading/SMT was once thought by every engineer to be something that was required to have but now it's not far away from being relegated to niches that VLIW architectures occupy.

Just because an alternative hasn't been thought of doesn't mean it will remain that way forever.

Of course not but I see no reason to get rid of uop caches, and you have not given any reason as to why they would/should. FWIW I disagree with ditching HT too. It's throwing away mostly free performance for... security? Maybe?

 

[cytg111]

What is the proportion of the reasons you are watching the channel? Because she has visually appealing features or that she offers information that pertains to your bias?

When it comes to gigantic scale mass manufacturing such as modern semiconductors, being out there in the real world with scale is king. They weren't able to get 10nm out in any capacity until they decided to do a little with Cannonlake and very quickly they were able to ramp 10nm to yields. Intel may take the lead but it'll take extraordinary measures to do so and perhaps TSMC messing up. They may take the lead but that's still hope more than anything.

In terms of logical fallacies that is not much of a choice you're giving me here .

Basically I think Intel is returning to the front, take geo-politics, Taiwan, AI, Chips act etc. The western front cant afford second place and cant let it be up to a coin toss(Taiwan), so I think there is going to be thrown money at the problem until Intel is nr.1 again.

With this conviction I am trying to deduce where and when to throw my money in. That is my motivation.
But hey, If she was to hit me up for a date, would I say no? Probably not.

 

[dullard]

Source?

I believe the source is Golden Pig here, start at the 4th line from the bottom: https://cdn.videocardz.com/1/2024/03/GOLDEN-PIG-RUMORS.png

 

[igor_kavinski]

I believe the source is Golden Pig here, start at the 4th line from the bottom: https://cdn.videocardz.com/1/2024/03/GOLDEN-PIG-RUMORS.png

What does he mean by "it does not reach more than 7"?

 

[dullard]

What does he mean by "it does not reach more than 7"?

Performing a translation of a crude translation from a vague source isn't my forte. I assume it is referring to the number of Xe cores. Intel labels Meteor Lake CPUs with more Xe cores as having Intel Arc Graphics, but labels Meteor Lake CPUs with few Xe cores as having Intel Graphics.

For example, the 165H has 8 Xe cores and is labeled Intel Arc Graphics.
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-processor-165h-24m-cache-up-to-5-00-ghz.html



But the 165U has 4 Xe cores and is labeled Intel Graphics (without the "Arc" in the name).
https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...-processor-165u-12m-cache-up-to-4-90-ghz.html

 

[DrMrLordX]

Anyway I think I am taking that bet and be buying up some INTC the coming time.

Good luck! Nobody can really tell if Intel's nodes are actually competitive with TSMC's since Intel seems to be struggling with either volume or design (or both?). Arrow Lake doesn't look like it's going to be a great CPU despite Intel having a newer/mostly better TSMC node available for it than some competition which is coming up on TSMC N4P. So while it is rather embarrassing for Intel that they're going to release a new flagship CPU late this year on a TSMC node, it's even more embarrassing for them that said flagship CPU will most likely be slower than a competitor's chip on the older N4P.

 

[dullard]

To add to the confusion, there are some rumors of Arrow Lake-U being on Intel 3. Rumor here: https://wccftech.com/intel-arrow-la...ernative-lunar-lake-intel-3-perf-watt-uplift/ And our own rumors: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...ure-lakes-rapids-thread.2509080/post-40656166

But I haven't seen anything from Intel mention that.

 

[SiliconFly]

To add to the confusion, there are some rumors of Arrow Lake-U being on Intel 3. Rumor here: https://wccftech.com/intel-arrow-la...ernative-lunar-lake-intel-3-perf-watt-uplift/ And our own rumors: https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...ure-lakes-rapids-thread.2509080/post-40656166

But I haven't seen anything from Intel mention that.

Well, I think intel 4 & Intel 3 share the same HP libraries (possibly with a few tweaks). Then, ARL-U being just a MTL-U refresh bodes really well with the leak.

If true, we're going to see RWC yet again. yuck.