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Old 09-02-2002, 07:00 AM   #1
immortalis
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 294
Default 256MB DDR 2100: Samsung double sided vs. Elixir single. Read info here

I got a few sticks of PNY branded 256MB DDR ram.
These are the complete info's I was able to assemble:


Manufacturer: PNY
Certified Module: No
Module I PNY053
Part #: 6432WKDXA8G09TWK-OX0
MB: 256MB
Config: 32M x 64
DRAM: Elixir
DRAM Part #: N2DS25680AT-75B Rev. A
PCB Part: PD88R1 Rev. 2.1
PCB_layer_count: 6 Layer
Module Info: Unbuffered, NON-ECC, 266mhz, DDR DIMM
Cas Latency: 2.5
Assembly Type: Single Board/Single Sided
Low Profile: YES
Actual Height: 31.85


Manufacturer: PNY
Module I PNY052
Certified Module: No
Part #: 6432ZKDXA4G17TWK-OF1
MB: 256MB
Config: 32M x 64
DRAM: Samsung
DRAM Part #: K4H280838C-TCB0 Rev. C
PCB Part: M381L3313T1 Rev. 1.0
PCB_layer_count: 6 Layer
Module Info: Unbuffered, NON-ECC, 266mhz, DDR DIMM
Cas Latency: 2.5
Assembly Type: Single Board/Double Sided
Low Profile: YES
Actual Height: 31.80

The Samsung stick has 16 chips and the elixir has only 8.

Contrary to many I am not going to overclock, so speed is not an issue for me (both sticks are not certified anyhow, whatever that means).
But I want to use as much of this memory on a motherboard as possible/stable.

I read that most motherboards can only support 3 sticks and are unstable with four.

Now the question I have is in regards of single vs double sided:

Which one of these is generally better for the maximum memory?

Isn't it true that double sided sticks impose more physical drag (in terms of capacity and inductivity) on the signals?

Please knowledged opinions only, I read through zillion of guesses and believes via google.
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Old 09-04-2002, 06:56 AM   #2
immortalis
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Default

^
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Old 09-04-2002, 06:34 PM   #3
JEFF68005
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Posts: 128
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>> Now the question I have is in regards of single vs double sided:

Which one of these is generally better for the maximum memory?

Isn't it true that double sided sticks impose more physical drag (in terms of capacity and inductivity) on the signals?

Please knowledged opinions only, I read through zillion of guesses and believes via google.
<<

ME Knowledgable? NOT !

That said, **I DO KNOW the following. ***

I bought a Gigabyte's GA-8IEXP Motherboard with three DDR memory slots.

The manual says that the third slot has limitations.
If all single sided memory, then I can use all three slots ie 3 times 256=768
If double sided sticks then only two slots may be used because that mb shares memory banks between slot 2 & 3 therefore the third slot is useless.
HOWEVER if one is double sided and the remaining two are single sided then Double/single/single works.

Therefore, it was necessary for me to use a single sided memory in the third slot.

Source of my info is a chart for my motherboard on page 11 of the manual. At least, you can see why I say what I say:
Gigabyte Manual can be obtained here

Here is the PDF download

Now let me help you out the wrong way further.
I bought 2 sticks of PNY PC2100 memory at Best Buy a few weeks ago with a rebate.
Just looking at them, I would assume them to be double sided.
I had my brother look at them. He is an engineer at a bakery. Deals with chips on the bakery machines. He says someone was lazy and placed the individual chips in both sides of the memory stick board, but in fact the stick would be read as single sided chips by the motherboard. Since I only had two chips, I just dropped them in and had 512 mem. I did the Office Depot PNY 256 DDR upgrade rebate last week.
I moved one of the chips bought at Best Buy to the third slot and installed the new purchase in the first slot. Voila !!! 768!!
Therefore at least two of those sticks are being read as single sided even tho I can see chips on both sides of the memory sticks ... go figure.
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Old 09-05-2002, 02:24 PM   #4
Salvador
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Posts: 7,058
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I bought 4 sticks of this PNY DDR (2 @ BB and 2 @ OD). 2 of the sticks have Samsung chips and 2 have Infineon chips. I'm going to return 2 sticks to BB. Which ones should I return?

I know that I should probably keep both of the same type if I want to OC the RAM, but which RAM should I keep? Infineon or the Samsung? If one or the other, why? I'm thinking it's a toss up, but I've heard better things about the Samsung chipped RAM.

TIA,

Sal
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Old 09-05-2002, 02:59 PM   #5
Copperpipe
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Posts: 131
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I tried a PNY 256 MB DDR which had only 4 Infineon chips on one side, and this stick could not even run stable at 133 mhz on my Soltek SL75DRV4. My slower Centon 256 DDR, by comparison, worked fine at the fastest memory timings at 133 mhz.

If you are planning to overclock, you should probably buy something better like genuine/original Samsung or Crucial.
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Old 09-06-2002, 01:14 PM   #6
immortalis
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Thanks for the info. I'm just beginning to understand that somehow the "banks" referred to are the banks inside the DDR.

JEFF68005: thanks for that link, that was very interesting!
Interesting is also the issue with the single sided double sideds.
How many chips are on the PNY PC2100 memory from Best Buy?

From what I gather (I kept lookin & searching) it seems to be better for me to get all the single sided Elixier boards and return the double sided Samsungs.

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Old 09-06-2002, 01:59 PM   #7
IRISH4LIFE
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Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 40
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Well here is another example of memory usage. I originally had (2) 256MB Mushkin Cool dimms in my computer. I decided
to get some more ram with the PNY Best Buy deal. I have an Asus P4S333 Motherboard with 3 dimm slots. I get the new PNY memory
which is single sided the mushkin is double sided. I put the PNY in the 3rd slot run the computer and my games crash right after loading.
I got a memory tester that loads up on a floppy and run it, as soon as it hit past the 512 MB it starts reporting errors ( which I assume would me that once it went through the 512MB of Mushkin ram it hit the PNY and started reporting errors.) I decided to run the PNY by itself and it ran fine with no errors (in the first dimm slot) so I added the mushkin back to dimm 2 and 3 and everything runs great! No errors or crashes. It seems that my system wanted the single sided dimm before the 2 double sided ones.
Hope this was informative.

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Old 09-06-2002, 04:06 PM   #8
JEFF68005
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Posts: 128
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Let me add that I have no interest in overclocking, so all my comments are without consideration for/about overclocking.

The disclosure in my previous message in this thread still holds and reference to the same links for my board. I'm not expert in this stuff, but I do know the following:

Let me help you the wrong way again. All my sticks are PNY PC2100 DDR.

My first two sticks bought at the same time at Best Buy are Samsung chips .... the sticks my brother said would be seen by the computer as singlesided but by eyeball have chips on both sides.

I'm not sure how you got all the good info about your chips but let's see what you can do with these numbers.
Best Buy matched chip set of two sticks matches your second description - so no real work there.
Part #: 6432ZKDXA4G17TWK-OF1

The third stick from Office Depot has the Infineon chips on them. That's the stick that I placed in slot1 as I have no idea if it is in fact read by the computer as single or double sided. My brother has not seen that stick and is not expected to be in my area anytime soon ... so no help there.
Part #: 6432WMDXAG09TWK-0F0 (could be OFO)
32WMD438919 stk 4389319 below that may help
as that number is different from the 322DKD stk 445093 below the Best Buy Part #: 6432ZKDXA4G17TWK-OF1

All I can tell you is that the Infineon chip stick in slot1 and the Samsung sticks in slot 2 & 3 of my Gigabyte board. It's working as three times 256 = 768.

I also bought another stick the same day as the Infineon stick at a different Office Depot that has the single sided Elixier chips. That stick is still in the package, so I cannot see the sticker on the stick. I find it interesting that the two Office Depot sticks with different chip makers have identical UPCs for the rebate.

I always thought that the "banks" were the motherboard slots. At least that's how my previous motherboard instructions read. Something to do with how the banks are "wired" in the manufacture of the motherboard. That how I read the Gigabyte instructions too.

See also the message from IRISH4LIFE but I would go the the website for his board and see the instructions for yourself. Whatever you do, read the instructions for the motherboard you own or are considering purchasing.

Regards,
Jeff


Quote:
Originally posted by: immortalis
Thanks for the info. I'm just beginning to understand that somehow the "banks" referred to are the banks inside the DDR.

JEFF68005: thanks for that link, that was very interesting!
Interesting is also the issue with the single sided double sideds.
How many chips are on the PNY PC2100 memory from Best Buy?

From what I gather (I kept lookin & searching) it seems to be better for me to get all the single sided Elixier boards and return the double sided Samsungs.
UPDATE: I had my chip assignments backwords. It turned out that the doublesided chip was in slot 1 as the instruction book said to do.
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Old 09-27-2002, 10:05 AM   #9
JEFF68005
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Posts: 128
Default 256MB DDR 2100: Samsung double sided vs. Elixir single. Read info here

More info on VIA tested DDR from several chip suppliers.

Samsung Chip info.

UPDATE:

Among my three sticks, Sissoft Sandra rated the Infineon chips higher than the Samsumg. CL2-100 on the Samsung while CL2= 133 on the Infineon which in my case was really SIEMENS according to Sandra.

I found the data sheet from Samsung. It explains all the coding on the individual chips themselves.
It seems PNY has used over a half dozen combinations under the same UPC.

Download Samsung Chip Data Sheet from Samsung's site to know what you are getting.

Listing of data sheets available for DDR SAMUNG memory


Linky to Independent chip validations for various makers such as Intel, VIA, AMD, SiS, nVIDIA, ServerWorks

Infineon reference material

Infineon chips - See page 4 for code breakdown.
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Old 10-10-2002, 11:33 AM   #10
JEFF68005
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Posts: 128
Default 256MB DDR 2100: Samsung double sided vs. Elixir single. Read info here

Here is the stock number for the PNY - Infideon memory I mentioned.

Sissoft Sandra scored it better better than the PNY-Samsung ending TCBO.
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