Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Social > Off Topic

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2013
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-20-2000, 11:23 AM   #1
BigToque
Lifer
 
BigToque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,689
Default

I was watching a show last light (at like 2am) that was all about deaf people and their families. A whole segment of it was basically talking to the parents about why they would not let their deaf child to get an implant that would allow her to hear! They said that it was wrong to do and that being deaf was something she should appreciate.

If I was deaf, and my parents had the chance to let me hear, and they decided that not hearing was best for me, I would hate them for all time. Being able to hear is one of our body's greatest senses. I dont think I could stand not being able to hear.

What if the kid was blind and they had the chance to let her see, but didnt because 'they thought it was best' that she shouldnt see the world!

WTF is wrong with these people?!?!?
__________________
s signature has been formatted to fit your scr
BigToque is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:28 AM   #2
FettsBabe
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,683
Default

I agree with you 100%.
FettsBabe is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:30 AM   #3
NFS4
No Lifer
 
NFS4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 72,552
Default

Totally agree!
__________________
"I'm going to count to three, there will not be a four."
NFS4 is online now  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:31 AM   #4
Yo Ma Ma
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 11,635
Default

I agree. The only reasoning I can think of would be the parents see their lack of hearing as an attribute as opposed to impairment.
Yo Ma Ma is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:31 AM   #5
StageLeft
No Lifer
 
StageLeft's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Sydney
Posts: 70,214
Default

I agree also. If being deaf is so nice why don't you see regular people hooking themselves up to ear-drum-destruction machines? What about crippled parents with crippled kids? They coulnd't say the same could they? Losing hearing is losing part of yourself, its one of your senses and decreases external stimuli that you can perceive.
__________________
It is accomplished.
StageLeft is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:32 AM   #6
Chef0083
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,184
Default

The only reason, and I don't think it would be a good one, would be becuase they woudn't know how to raise a child that could hear. I dunno, just a thought! Not only do I agree that it would be wrong I would go as far to say it borders on abuse.
Chef0083 is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:35 AM   #7
NFS4
No Lifer
 
NFS4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 72,552
Default



<< If being deaf is so nice why don't you see regular people hooking themselves up to ear-drum-destruction machines? >>


You may be &quot;surprised&quot; to know that there is a growing trend of young people that insist on BLASTING their fricken music so that people four lanes over can hear what their listening to WITH THE WINDOWS UP!
__________________
"I'm going to count to three, there will not be a four."
NFS4 is online now  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:35 AM   #8
cxim
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,442
Default

stephan, this is an easy one...

They fear they will lose their child to the &quot;hearing world&quot;
cxim is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:37 AM   #9
Chef0083
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,184
Default



<< You may be &quot;surprised&quot; to know that there is a growing trend of young people that insist on BLASTING their fricken music so that people four lanes over can hear what their listening to WITH THE WINDOWS UP! >>


Now I love my music loud but I have to agree that some people just take it to an extreme most of the time.
Chef0083 is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:41 AM   #10
NFS4
No Lifer
 
NFS4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 72,552
Default



<< stephan, this is an easy one...

They fear they will lose their child to the &quot;hearing world&quot;
>>


And what makes the &quot;hearing world&quot; worse than the &quot;non-hearing&quot; world. If anything, the parent should be happy to give their kid the chance to live life to the fullest, something that they weren't able to do. It is just SELFISH IMHO.
__________________
"I'm going to count to three, there will not be a four."
NFS4 is online now  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:48 AM   #11
Looney
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 21,943
Default

Are you saying deaf parents wouldn't let their deaf child get an implant? or normal parents (who can hear) won't let their deaf child get an implant?

What are the odds of both parents being deaf, and the child being deaf as well? I've seen many case studies (video) on deaf parents and their regular hearing children, and how the hearing children pick up sign language just as easily as they pick up verbal language... and infact, children who are signing also go through the 'baby' talk (such as repeating a sound over and over again) while signing.

Anyways, just curious. Lots of parents make stupid mistakes, and these parents are probably one of them. We all know the danger of drinking alcohol while pregnant, and every year, thousands and thousands of babies are born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. If mothers didn't drink while pregnant, there would not be a single case of it. You also see other mothers smoking while breast feeding a baby. Or parents that gamble away entire wages while their kids are still wearing rags.
__________________
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." -Stephen Roberts

"We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It's the best deal man has ever made." - M. Facklam
Looney is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:53 AM   #12
BigToque
Lifer
 
BigToque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,689
Default

I found an article on the show that I was watching. Cochlear implant is what can be put in to help the kids hear.

The article is here: Cochlear implant surgery
__________________
s signature has been formatted to fit your scr
BigToque is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 11:59 AM   #13
cxim
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,442
Default

nsf4,

I did not say they were rational.

The non hearing world is a small one. When deaf people get implants, they leave.

Now you are talking about parents &amp; children &amp; motivation. Not what is right or wrong.

Put yourself in their place. You are parents &amp; the joy of your existance is your child &amp; you have been &quot;left in the dirt&quot; by &quot;friends&quot; that have implants. What are you going to do ? Lose you child or hold on ?
cxim is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 12:01 PM   #14
BigToque
Lifer
 
BigToque's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,689
Default

From the story:



<< Heather?s grandmother, Marianne Artinian who is hearing, was thrilled when she heard what the implant could do for Heather.

?I wanted her to have quality of life,? says Marianne. ?Maybe some day she can go on a date and go to the philharmonic. She can hear music. She can hear her own child cry.?

But Heather?s father, Peter, saw things differently. For him, deafness was not a defect to be corrected but a quality to embrace.
>>





<< He took his family to see one of the deaf children who?d been implanted, and was troubled when Heather insisted on imitating the little girl with the implant by trying to read a story aloud.
Nita asks, ?Heather, why don?t you sign? The interpreter will speak. If you sign, then she?ll voice for you.?
Heather says, ?No, I don?t want to sign. I want to speak.?
Peter tells her, ?Sign the story. It?s your language.?
Heather says, ?No.?
Peter says, ?You sign, she?ll speak.?
Nita says: ?Just leave her be.?
Peter says, ?Now come on, I want you to sign the story, Heather.?
Heather says, ?I want to speak.?
And one of his worst fears was confirmed.
?Does Shelby think of herself as a deaf person or a hearing person?? asks Peter.
Shelby?s dad says, ?She views herself as a hearing person. Without doubt, she definitely does. She doesn?t know the deaf life at all.?
It was a defining moment. Heather would not be getting the implant.
>>

__________________
s signature has been formatted to fit your scr
BigToque is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 12:07 PM   #15
cxim
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 1,442
Default

stephan, you made my point &amp; I did not see the show ...

I do know some deaf people, however
cxim is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 02:33 PM   #16
CinderElmo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 732
Default

Gee I am sorry sweet pea, but I won't allow you to explore the vastness and richness of the audible world. I have decided that IT WOULD BE BEST if you just live your life in a silent bubble so our family can stay close.

Why the fsck would anyone deny their child a chance to hear? They talk about &quot;the deaf world&quot; being small and close and they resent people leaving once they can hear, but to willingly chain someone to that world without giving them the opportunity to explore the world outside is just sick IMO. And if they think their daughter will love them any less when she can hear (which sounds like the father's problem), then he needs a refresher course on what love means. :disgust:

(this statement qualified by the belief that the implant is permanent)
CinderElmo is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 03:47 PM   #17
AndrewR
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,159
Default

It comes down to selfishness, really, which is quite sad. I saw a similar report on one of the news shows (20/20, Dateline) about this subject, and how the deaf are resisting the cochlear implant for their children (and the likelihood of deaf parents having deaf children is fairly high). As cxim said, they don't want to lose their children to the &quot;audible&quot; world and that all of these &quot;defections&quot; to hearing will ultimately doom the deaf community which is the only world the parents know.

Personally, I think it sucks for the child to be denied the opportunity to hear and to stunt their learning with deafness (the deaf often read at a very low level since they have trouble learning the words when they have no ability to hear them -- something I never knew). I am not saying it is an easy decision for the parents, but their selfishness, and fear, only hurts their children in the long run.
AndrewR is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 04:00 PM   #18
SuperGroove
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 3,347
Default

They possibly don't want them to see or hear the vulgarity that society exhibits.


Who knows, just me. The world is a foul, dirty, obscene and cold place. Maybe innocence is all they want in their children.

Paul
SuperGroove is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 05:57 PM   #19
eia430
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 369
Default

Hmm, you people (those that are blasting deaf parents as selfish and such) are assuming one conclusion after another, none of which are based on anything substantial. I am a big brother to 2 deaf kids so I have SOME exposure to the deaf culture. I am also almost (struggling)fluent in ASL. The main reason for not getting cochlear implants for their deaf kids is rather simple. Within a short time the implant kills cochlear hairs, so about 5 or so years after the cochlear implant you loose that temporary ability permanently. I would imagine that the main reason for parents (deaf or otherwise) to not give implants to their kids is to leave it up to them in adult hood WHEN to use their limited time with the implant. Using it up in their childhood and therefore denying it to them in adult hood. This is the reason why the kid's parents have not gotten implants for either of them, and they HAVE studied this to a great degree before coming to this decision. Before you idiots assume people are evil at least look into it and base your opinion on some sort of reality. This assumption of hearing people that they know what is best for deaf peole when they know nothing about the deaf culture is just another reason why there is such a deep rift between the two cultures.

(edit: typos)
eia430 is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 06:21 PM   #20
eia430
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 369
Default

On a further point....

If the culture in power (the hearing world) were Klan members and you believed in equality would you want to have your kids join that world? Deaf people face discrimination problems much greater than all the ethnic groups combined. Imagine yourself in a chinese vilage where nobody speaks any english and your blind. Then you would face similar problems a deaf person would face. You can still hear and would eventualy be able to learn to speak chinese (the equivalent to writing for a deaf person) but you will never be able to visualy communicate (or you could temporarily for 5 years minus the years it would take for you to learn how to make sense of what you hear, minus the years it takes to learn to speak) Imagine that situation.

(edit add) Imagine all the people who won't hire you because you can't communicate on the same level and way that everybody else communicates at. Imagine all the idiot's that will ridicule your lack of understanding of the culture that you can't communicate with. Imagine yourself a black person in a city of Klan members. (end edit)

The deaf culture has experienced so much discrimination, ridicule, asumptiveness and other wrongs from the hearing world that a good part of them don't want to have anything to do with a culture that thinks like that or behaves like that. Would you want to be part of the Klan just because they are the majority in your town? Even though you don't believe in what they believe? Is it really so hard to understand why a deaf parent (the one in the story) would not want their kid to be part of that kind of culture?

It's discusting how some of you people have such an easy time demonizing some deaf parent's decision on how to raise their children.
eia430 is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 06:23 PM   #21
Imported
Lifer
 
Imported's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 13,445
Default

I agree.
__________________
psn: ntrinsik
Imported is online now  
Old 11-20-2000, 06:57 PM   #22
eia430
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 369
Default

I just took a bit of time to read all the other posts in this thread....


SOME OF YOU PEOPLE NEED TO GO FIND A DEAF PERSON AND APPOLOGIZE FOR YOUR IGNORANCE.


I hope you all find yourselves in a situation where you would see from a deaf person's life. Then you would see just how ugly and hurtful (to the deaf culture)some of your comments are. I hope no deaf person ever sees this thread. It will only validate their already negative opinion of the hearing culture.
eia430 is offline  
Old 11-20-2000, 10:42 PM   #23
AndrewR
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11,159
Default

eia430: I watched a rather lengthly report (30 minutes) on the cochlear implant, and they mentioned nothing about it having a limited life. To me, it sounded quite permanent. Further, after doing some basic research on the web, I see nothing which states that it is not permanent (hard to get detailed information). The implant is either permanent or various websites are lying or being rather deceitful, including the Cochlear Implant Association and the University of Iowa Cochlear Center and the UT-Dallas Cochlear Research Center. The cochlear implant does not kill the cochlear hairs, it replaces them since the problem with &quot;nerve deafness&quot; comes from the lack of proper operation of those very hairs.

Further, that report followed the story of one family in particular but quoted from others who were facing the choice between having or not having the cochlear implant for the children. The family was quite well situated for the discussion since one brother had his child go through the surgery while another steadfastly refused to allow his child to undergo the implant. The basic impression from that report was as I said above -- the one brother (who was deaf, the other one was not but married a deaf woman, IIRC) was operating out of fear and a form of selfishness, though perhaps that's not the best term for it. It was almost &quot;the deaf world is good enough for me so it's good enough for my child&quot;. Perhaps it was the fear of the unknown -- the fear of the &quot;audible&quot; world which the adult cannot comprehend. I don't know exactly why they would refuse the implant, but that was the impression that was conveyed. It was perplexing and disturbing.


<< I hope you all find yourselves in a situation where you would see from a deaf person's life >>


That's just the point now, isn't it? With the cochlear implant, there is no such thing as a &quot;deaf person's life&quot;. I would see the &quot;elimination&quot; of the deaf culture not as a bad event but one of joy since the deaf could once again hear. The intent of the implant is not to &quot;destory a culture&quot; -- it is intended to destroy a condition which makes life difficult, which makes learning difficult, which makes the very wonderful act of listening to music impossible.

Would we be having this discussion over a cure for blindness?

[edit] Here is some interesting testimony from a parent who's child has an implant: A Parent Perspective of Cochlear Implants. That implant had been working for 9 1/2 years at that point.
AndrewR is offline  
Old 11-21-2000, 05:57 AM   #24
eia430
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 369
Default

Andrew R. The kid's mom has been working with UCSD medical center about the cochlear implants, UCSD (UC San Diego) were the one's that said there were tendencies of implants to kill off the remaining cochlear hairs. The kids are adopted and both parents are hearing so they have no motives that are culturaly, deaf or otherwise induced. I have suggested implants and their reply was what I've been going with. That they have been told that it is an option and the state will cover the costs involved but that it does have the tendency to be a temporary solution in that after about 5 or so years it will degrade permanently. Their decision was to let the kids decide for themselves in adult hood if and when they want the implants. Part of their hope is that by then there will be ways found to make it a permanent solution.

You have watched shows on TV and have browsed websites on the net, how does this make you an expert on cochlear implants? Others here have expressed such a level of assumptive arrogance as to think that they know what is best for a deaf child after watching a half hr TV program. Are you doing the same Andrew R? Do you pretend to know better than the parents of deaf children (some of whom are deaf themselves) what is best for deaf kids? What is next? are you going to be the expert drug councelor after seeing a half hr TV program on crack use?

Unless you have deaf kids and have at least had a conference with a medical doctor that specializes in cochlear implants you don't have the foggiest notion on what is best for a deaf child. Can you even communicate with a deaf child? Have you had ANY exposure at all to the deaf community? If your answer has been no to all the above questions, how can you even begin to know what is best when you know nothing? How can you critisize the decision of parents that have lived with deafness all their lives?

eia430 is offline  
Old 11-21-2000, 06:09 AM   #25
Zucchini
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 4,601
Default

&quot;But Heather?s father, Peter, saw things differently. For him, deafness was not a defect to be corrected but a quality to embrace.&quot;

Oh jeez thats a bad case of denial, i guess you might need that to live being deaf ... grr i don't have anything to say that w ouldn't sound mean
Zucchini is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.