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Old 11-11-2006, 03:31 PM   #1
Hyperlite
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

So there has been a lot of talk lately about the affordable 22? Chi Mei Panel, I thought I would make a thread will all the solutions using this panel and their differences, in an attempt to aid everyone in a buying decision. i know i am having a tough time
First of all, the panel itself:
The Chi Mei 22? panel is a 6-bit TN panel with a 5ms response time, and a 700:1 contrast ratio. All of these panels that report 16.7 million colors use Hi-FRC to achieve 16.7 million colors. The only big complaints with this panel so far seems to be backlight bleeding on the top and bottom of the screen, and a somewhat poor viewing angle. For those concerned about pixel pitch, please read this article. it should clear up some concerns. thanks to Bernard for the link. That article is also a great overview of 22" panels in general, and focuses on the acer.
Chi Mei M220Z1

Solutions

Acer AL2216Wbd:
-Pros: Good color reproduction, sturdy build (comparatively)
-Cons: limited inputs
links
Hardforum
Newegg (339.99)
Acer

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Sceptre X22WG-Gamer
-Pros: HDMI Input(!), 1200:1 contrast ratio(?), Sleek design
-Cons: Least sturdy of the bunch, bright logo
Links
Anand
Anand, Props to tu2!
Newegg ($359.99)
Excellent, Lengthy review!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Westinghouse LCM-22W2
-Pros: Lots of inputs: Component, composite, S-vid.
-Cons: Large frame, Possible picture quality issues on component and composite inputs?
Links
Best Buy ($499.99)
Anand
HardForum-Acer Vs Westy
PC Mag Review

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

CHIMEI 221D (NBC)
-Pros/Cons: Reported 330 cd brightness and 800:1 contrast ratio.
-Not much is known about this panel...review of it further down the page. I'll have a review up by the end of next week.
links
Newegg ($339.99)
I picked up this monitor from newegg after thanksgiving. I am very happy with it. I can't complain at all about performance, though i am somewhat of an LCD virgin...heres my newegg review:
Pros: Excellent picture clarity, color clarity, response time, taken everything i throw at it with ease. HL2, FEAR, FEAR XP, several movies, office work, etc. Really a great display. No viewing angle issues. I regularly utilize the brightness presets depending on what i am looking at.

Cons: 1 stuck pixel at the vertical center about two inches from the right side of the screen. I don't notice it in games much, but it can get annoying in movies. Other than that, i can't really think of anything. It sometimes can have a grainy feel in movies, but most of the time i watch movies far enough back so that it isn't noticeable.

Other Thoughts: There was alot of hubbub about the TN panels having major viewing angle problems, but i'm not seeing any of it. My experience with LCD's is limited, but i am nothing but happy with this display. It would be absolutely perfect if not for that darn stuck pixel, but i am still hopeful of being able to fix that. Very, very simple aesthetically, which i like. I often feel like i am looking out a window when i have landscape backgrounds applied. Highly recommended!
Heres a bad pic of my setup:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Samsung 225BW (NOT CERTAIN ABOUT PANEL, but still a very similar display)
-Pros: Samsung usually=good build, height adjustment.
-Cons: reports 280 cd brightness(?)
Links
Newegg ($379.99)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Viewsonic VG2230wm
-Pros/Cons: Well, its a viewsonic, which usually have a good rep.
Links
Newegg ($398.99)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

BenQ FP222W
-Pros/Cons: Once again, good rep. Good reviews on newegg so far.
Links
Newegg ($339.99)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

ASUS MW221U
-Pros: well its an ASUS, isn;t that good enough!? and it looks freakin sweet. reported 2ms response, HDMI, HDCP.
-Cons: ?
Links
ASUStek
ExCaliber PC ($421)
Review

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Liyama Prolite E2200WS
-Pros/Cons: See link
Links
TrustedReviews

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Samsung vs Westy

Quote:
Originally posted by: xtknight
The ViewSonic VX2235wm also uses the CMO M220Z1-L01. The Chi Mei CMV-221A is the VGA version of the CMV-221D. The panel may have input lag after all, as LesNumeriques did measure some.

Just to let you know, your OP is going to get long because the 22" market is about to explode.

Something's missing from this thread. No, not cowbell, rather Chinese measurements.

Sceptre X22WG-Gamer measurements (lcd.zol.com.cn):

White level: 198 nits
Black level: 0.31 nits (contrast 635:1)
Color gamut: 75.6% (sRGB=72%) NTSC
Uniformity (center/corner): 1.12/1.19=94%

The black level is average, but color accuracy on midtones is decent. Bright colors are a little less accurate. It does have more backlight bleeding than usual.

BenQ FP222W measurements (lcd.zol.com.cn):

White level: 163 nits
Black level: 0.32 nits (contrast 515:1)
Color gamut: 75.9% NTSC
Uniformity: 1.27/1.49=85%

I assume the BenQ also uses the CMO as the measurements are pretty close.

ASUS MW221u measurements (lcd.zol.com.cn):

White level: 163 nits
Black level: 0.28 nits (contrast 578:1)
Color gamut: 76.7% NTSC
Uniformity: 1.19/1.37=87%

The color characteristics of the LCDs that use the CMO 22"w are quite consistent. Backlight bleeding however seems to vary a ton. Some have lots, some have virtually invisible bleeding. On all the models tested above, uniformity varied less than 15% from the center to the corner. One important thing to note is that it's pretty dark for an LCD panel. The BenQ and ASUS hit 163 nits max, which isn't bright at all for an LCD (CRTs are around 85-125). The Sceptre hit a little higher at 198. Keep in mind the ViewSonic VX2025WM reaches 264 nits, and the NEC 20WMGX2/Dell 2407 reach about 470 nits. That's actually a good thing though. You don't need much calibration if it's already at 160 nits. That's a pretty comfortable level at which to use a monitor.
I will keep the OP updated with new info.

Hope this helps! Discuss!

special thanks to xtknight for digging up info for this thread!!
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Old 11-11-2006, 04:45 PM   #2
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

The Samsung 225BW also uses a Chi Mei TN. Great idea for a thread. I made a post in my Guide about 22" (mainly Chi Mei), but this will be a lot easier to find.
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Old 11-11-2006, 06:01 PM   #3
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Thanks, samsung added.
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Old 11-11-2006, 09:06 PM   #4
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

How good are these comparied to say my dell 2005fpw? It's a bigger panel but same resolution wouldn't the image quality suffer from that?
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Old 11-11-2006, 10:34 PM   #5
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum...fm/550669.html << good thread on chimie info
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Old 11-11-2006, 11:07 PM   #6
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Quote:
Originally posted by: redbox
How good are these comparied to say my dell 2005fpw? It's a bigger panel but same resolution wouldn't the image quality suffer from that?
well the 5fpw is a pretty old panel isn't it? i don't know what the other specs are, but i would guess these panels have at least better brightness and a higher contrast ratio. Theoretically the image quality would suffer, and that is something that interests me, but i don't really know.
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Old 11-11-2006, 11:13 PM   #7
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

It is impossible for electronics to affect the viewing angle of an LCD panel so I'd remove the viewing angle comment from the Acer/Samsung ones, or add it to all of them. It's pretty widely known that the viewing angles of TNs aren't as good as S-IPS.

The 2005FPW (S-IPS) may actually be better than the 22" TN panels.

'6-bit' is probably the correct term to describe the Chi Mei panel but it does use a new FRC method many people say is hard to notice. That is, versus the hideous 2x2 dithering that a lot of them use. FRC really is miles ahead. It uses Hi-FRC to reach 16.7M colors, so that's definitely a plus.
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Old 11-11-2006, 11:21 PM   #8
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Quote:
Originally posted by: xtknight
It is impossible for electronics to affect the viewing angle of an LCD panel so I'd remove the viewing angle comment from the Acer/Samsung ones, or add it to all of them. It's pretty widely known that the viewing angles of TNs aren't as good as S-IPS.

The 2005FPW (S-IPS) may actually be better than the 22" TN panels.

'6-bit' is probably the correct term to describe the Chi Mei panel but it does use a new FRC method many people say is hard to notice. That is, versus the hideous 2x2 dithering that a lot of them use. FRC really is miles ahead. It uses Hi-FRC to reach 16.7M colors, so that's definitely a plus.
thanks for the info, OP edited.


Edit: "Better" with what though? Image quality? color reproduction? or mabye both?
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Old 11-11-2006, 11:40 PM   #9
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

The 2007WFP is a true 8-bit panel so colors should be produced more faithfully. Details will be more apparent and color saturation won't be so out of wack (you should see purer colors at lower brightness). I'd think if you compared response time between the two that the Chi Meis would come out ahead, but the 22" panels have posted rather average blur tests (compared to the fastest): http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.p...6&p2=1478&ph=1

Still, regarding response time, it would be hard to say for sure without trying it yourself. If someone could report how their 22" fares compared to their old LCD (please specify model), that would be great. That is, if they could see any ghosting at all.

The weird thing is, the Samsung 225BW doesn't even seem to implement MagicSpeed (Samsung's response time acceleration chip).
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Old 11-12-2006, 12:37 AM   #10
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Quote:
Originally posted by: xtknight
The 2007WFP is a true 8-bit panel so colors should be produced more faithfully. Details will be more apparent and color saturation won't be so out of wack (you should see purer colors at lower brightness). I'd think if you compared response time between the two that the Chi Meis would come out ahead, but the 22" panels have posted rather average blur tests (compared to the fastest): http://www.lesnumeriques.com/duels.p...6&p2=1478&ph=1

Still, regarding response time, it would be hard to say for sure without trying it yourself. If someone could report how their 22" fares compared to their old LCD (please specify model), that would be great. That is, if they could see any ghosting at all.

The weird thing is, the Samsung 225BW doesn't even seem to implement MagicSpeed (Samsung's response time acceleration chip).
any idea why the sceptre reports a 1200:1 contrast ratio?
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Old 11-12-2006, 04:49 AM   #11
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

i would much rather hav a 2005fpw over one of these for the guy that asked. its s-ips. better viewing angle, 8bit color, generally IPS panels have much better warmer colors too.

ips in general is worse response time though, thats why these 22" ones are all 5ms rated.
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Old 11-12-2006, 05:42 AM   #12
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

"The panel uses FRC" is inaccurate. The controller does that - and the controller of course differs between manufacturers.
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Old 11-12-2006, 11:14 AM   #13
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

My 2007wfp only has 16ms response time, but there is no visible ghosting at all, no matter what game or situation. S-IPS FTW!
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Old 11-12-2006, 12:03 PM   #14
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Quote:
Originally posted by: Peter
"The panel uses FRC" is inaccurate. The controller does that - and the controller of course differs between manufacturers.
Quote:
Originally posted by: xtknight
It is impossible for electronics to affect the viewing angle of an LCD panel so I'd remove the viewing angle comment from the Acer/Samsung ones, or add it to all of them. It's pretty widely known that the viewing angles of TNs aren't as good as S-IPS.

The 2005FPW (S-IPS) may actually be better than the 22" TN panels.

'6-bit' is probably the correct term to describe the Chi Mei panel but it does use a new FRC method many people say is hard to notice. That is, versus the hideous 2x2 dithering that a lot of them use. FRC really is miles ahead. It uses Hi-FRC to reach 16.7M colors, so that's definitely a plus.

so which is it?


edit: edited OP slightly to incorporate peter's comment
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Old 11-12-2006, 02:27 PM   #15
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

I'm pretty sure the TFT panel and controller come in the same package these days, so everything that uses the Chi Mei panel has the same color depth and dithering/FRC properties. Samsung (or whichever vendor) still gets to choose the DSP (which contains the on-screen-display code and response time acceleration stuff, interpolators, as well as any color enhancing options). I can't say I'm completely sure, but the Hi-FRC was invented by Chi Mei so they either sell their panels with the controller built-in or sell the controller separately. The panel itself is listed as 16.7M (some are 16.2M) so I assume the new controller is included, since the move from 16.2->16.7M didn't require any TFT panel modifications.

Sceptre reports 1200:1 as that's what the panel can reach in the best scenario (using its dynamic contrast feature).
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Old 11-12-2006, 03:20 PM   #16
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Quote:
Originally posted by: xtknight
I'm pretty sure the TFT panel and controller come in the same package these days, so everything that uses the Chi Mei panel has the same color depth and dithering/FRC properties. Samsung (or whichever vendor) still gets to choose the DSP (which contains the on-screen-display code and response time acceleration stuff, interpolators, as well as any color enhancing options). I can't say I'm completely sure, but the Hi-FRC was invented by Chi Mei so they either sell their panels with the controller built-in or sell the controller separately. The panel itself is listed as 16.7M (some are 16.2M) so I assume the new controller is included, since the move from 16.2->16.7M didn't require any TFT panel modifications.

Sceptre reports 1200:1 as that's what the panel can reach in the best scenario (using its dynamic contrast feature).
Awesome, thanks for the info.
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Old 11-12-2006, 05:18 PM   #17
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

so westinghouse is not a good moniter for the price $199 in bbuy for bfriday . I will be doing , video editing and playing games. I have 6600gt card in my pc right know.
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Old 11-12-2006, 05:31 PM   #18
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Quote:
Originally posted by: willbemcse
so westinghouse is not a good moniter for the price $199 in bbuy for bfriday . I will be doing , video editing and playing games. I have 6600gt card in my pc right know.
actually its an amazing monitor for $199.99....and great for gaming.
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Old 11-12-2006, 05:32 PM   #19
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

What about the new LCD Player, the 22" LCD from ViewSonic - VG2230wm ?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824116060

I call it "The new player" because it is marked as "New Arrival" on 'Egg and they don't have this monitor in Houston's Best Buy, CompUSA, and Circuit City!

EDIT: what is "black friday" in Best Buy?
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Old 11-12-2006, 05:36 PM   #20
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Quote:
Originally posted by: MegaVovaN
What about the new LCD Player, the 22" LCD from ViewSonic - VG2230wm ?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824116060

I call it "The new player" because it is marked as "New Arrival" on 'Egg and they don't have this monitor in Houston's Best Buy, CompUSA, and Circuit City!

EDIT: what is "black friday" in Best Buy?
alright i will look into the viewsonic...


black friday is the day after thanksgiving, where retailers traditionally have huge sales. theres a financial side to it, but that is all you need to know.
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Old 11-12-2006, 07:55 PM   #21
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

This thread is a great idea.

There was a gaping hole in the widescreen LCD panel market, and Chi Mei filled it.

Chi Mei might just have singlehandedly made the 20-inch widescreen obsolete, while also putting price pressure on the 24-inchers (which is what I really want, because of the 1080P-friendly 1920x1200 rez)

I would not be surprised if there were rush operations going on at other LCD manufacturers, such as LG-Phillips or AUOptonics, to come up with competing 22-inch panels. I also expect that other technologies than TN will be used in these new panels.

And Dell, a market leader, still has nothing in the 22-inch class. It should not be too long before they react.

The 22-inch 16:10 widescreen is practically as high as a 19-inch 5:4 LCD, missing only 0.2 inches, but a whopping 3.8 inches wider. It is a great compromise. Simply put, it is enough

I am still managing to hold out for a 400$ 24-inch LCD (I am guessing late 2007), but the 22-inch models, especially the Samsung, are starting to make me feel weak in the knees



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Old 11-12-2006, 08:38 PM   #22
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Don't forget the BenQ 22". I don't know anything about it, but it exists.

Edit, here.
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Old 11-12-2006, 08:46 PM   #23
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Quote:
Originally posted by: BernardP
This thread is a great idea.

There was a gaping hole in the widescreen LCD panel market, and Chi Mei filled it.

Chi Mei might just have singlehandedly made the 20-inch widescreen obsolete, while also putting price pressure on the 24-inchers (which is what I really want, because of the 1080P-friendly 1920x1200 rez)

I would not be surprised if there were rush operations going on at other LCD manufacturers, such as LG-Phillips or AUOptonics, to come up with competing 22-inch panels. I also expect that other technologies than TN will be used in these new panels.

And Dell, a market leader, still has nothing in the 22-inch class. It should not be too long before they react.

The 22-inch 16:10 widescreen is practically as high as a 19-inch 5:4 LCD, missing only 0.2 inches, but a whopping 3.8 inches wider. It is a great compromise. Simply put, it is enough

I am still managing to hold out for a 400$ 24-inch LCD (I am guessing late 2007), but the 22-inch models, especially the Samsung, are starting to make me feel weak in the knees


You are right on many of those points, but the Chi Mei panel is still lacking in a couple of areas when its compared to, say, a 2007WFP, so i don't think the 20" will be obsolete anytime soon. That, and there are some people who don't want that big (22") of a panel, for whatever reason.
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Old 11-13-2006, 07:14 AM   #24
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Quote:
Originally posted by: Hyperlite
the Chi Mei panel is still lacking in a couple of areas when its compared to, say, a 2007WFP, so i don't think the 20" will be obsolete anytime soon. That, and there are some people who don't want that big (22") of a panel, for whatever reason.
Yes, the Chi Mei panel is not top of the line. But it is to be expected that, for competitive reasons, all manufacturers will soon have 22-inch monitors and some of them will feature better panels. This will be the largest size available at the 1680x1050 resolution. When a potential buyer will be able to get 22 inches for just a little more than 20 inches, most of them will choose the larger size.

A similar situation exists today with the 17-inch vs 19-inch LCD monitors at 1280x1024 resolution. The price difference has become so small between those two sizes that it is hard to justify getting a 17-inch model...Except for thoses who enjoy practicing their microscipic vision
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Old 11-13-2006, 07:20 AM   #25
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Default *The Official 22? Chi Mei 6-bit TN Panel Thread*

Quote:
Originally posted by: BernardP
Quote:
Originally posted by: Hyperlite
the Chi Mei panel is still lacking in a couple of areas when its compared to, say, a 2007WFP, so i don't think the 20" will be obsolete anytime soon. That, and there are some people who don't want that big (22") of a panel, for whatever reason.
Yes, the Chi Mei panel is not top of the line. But it is to be expected that, for competitive reasons, all manufacturers will soon have 22-inch monitors and some of them will feature better panels. This will be the largest size available at the 1680x1050 resolution. When a potential buyer will be able to get 22 inches for just a little more than 20 inches, most of them will choose the larger size.

A similar situation exists today with the 17-inch vs 19-inch LCD monitors at 1280x1024 resolution. The price difference has become so small between those two sizes that it is hard to justify getting a 17-inch model...Except for thoses who enjoy practicing their microscipic vision
right, i was just saying the Chi mei wouldn't be making 20" obsolete. Though i stand by my statement, i think there will always be a place for 20" LCD's. adding the 22" category just gives the consumer a bit more flexibility in their purchases.
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