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Old 09-18-2009, 10:05 AM   #1
Raizinman
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

There are various refrigerants on the market to the average Joe. With a relatively new vehicle, say a 2009 Ford product using R134, what could you do to make the A/C blow colder? Here is what some of my car buddies suggested.

1) Use one of the refrigerant additives that advertise 10 degrees colder air temp.
2) Remove R134 and put in R12
3) Remove R134 and put in propane
4) Remove R134 and use a blend with isobutane or isopropane, or Duracool or OZ or something similar that is a blend.
5) Use R152A
6) Use R22 (this was used in cars back in the 50's)

What I am asking is if anyone has any experience in trying to obtain cooler air temperature by changing refrigerant and perhaps oil. The blends seem to be the best bang for the buck.

Obviously, the above question is only theoretical. We all know how well R134 works and why would anyone ever want to tamper with their vehicle and void their warranties.
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Old 09-18-2009, 10:25 AM   #2
bruceb
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

1) Use one of the refrigerant additives that advertise 10 degrees colder air temp. ... it will not work
2) Remove R134 and put in R12 .. R12 is incompatible with materials & pressures of R134 systems, so it won't work.
3) Remove R134 and put in propane .. not suggested for a car, also flammable and again incompatible with existing system equipment.
4) Remove R134 and use a blend with isobutane or isopropane, or Duracool or OZ or something similar that is a blend.
.. Not sure about this, but it would not do much good and I don't think it is safe
5) Use R152A .. This is the newer replacement for R134, but the system must be designed for it to be used.
6) Use R22 (this was used in cars back in the 50's) .. This is only for Home AC units and again, will not work with cars systems equipment.

The only way to make your car get colder, is with a larger capacity condenser, bigger compressor and added freon to match the larger parts.
You can also install electric fans blowing more air thru the condenser, so at low speeds, the ac works more efficiently.
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:48 AM   #3
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

Cup of ice in the AC vent?
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:03 PM   #4
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

7) none of the above, only retarded hillbillies drain the correct refrigerant from their system and fill it with some flammable crap. and incorrect quantities of it, at that.

most of the things you've listed are meant as r12 replacements, anyway, and they're on the market because of cost, not effectiveness.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:43 PM   #5
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

Modern R134 systems blow plenty cold already.

On older cars with converted systems that were originally designed to run R12, you do get reduced cooling relative to the original system, so I think that gave R134 a bad rep for some people. But test drive any new car and I think you'll find the A/C works great and doesn't need any help at all.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:26 PM   #6
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

Move to a colder climate.

The AC system has a maximum change from ambient temperature due to physics.
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Old 09-18-2009, 02:01 PM   #7
LTC8K6
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

A 2009 Ford should have a very capable A/C system. Should be no reason to want it to blow colder. It should be able to get it quite cold enough in there for you even on a hot day.

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Old 09-18-2009, 03:03 PM   #8
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

In my wife's car the recirculate keeps the car cooler and in my truck if you let the outside air in it blows harder and cooler.
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Old 09-20-2009, 01:05 PM   #9
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

Quote:
Originally posted by: bruceb
1) Use one of the refrigerant additives that advertise 10 degrees colder air temp. ... it will not work
Correct.

Quote:
Originally posted by: bruceb
2) Remove R134 and put in R12 .. R12 is incompatible with materials & pressures of R134 systems, so it won't work.
Wrong. The lubricant used for R134a is not miscible in R12, but the lubricant is replaceable. Other than the lubricant, there is no reason that an R134a system would not work with R12. In actual fact, since the R12 lubricant works better and R12 runs lower pressures an R134a system will actually last longer and cool better if R12 is used with the proper lubricant.

Quote:
Originally posted by: bruceb
3) Remove R134 and put in propane .. not suggested for a car, also flammable and again incompatible with existing system equipment.
No more flammable than the large tank of gasoline that you're carrying around all the time. And again, the only incompatibility is the lubricant. Other parts of the system will work just fine.

Quote:
Originally posted by: bruceb
4) Remove R134 and use a blend with isobutane or isopropane, or Duracool or OZ or something similar that is a blend.
.. Not sure about this, but it would not do much good and I don't think it is safe
I have been running Duracool in my 951 since 2005. Works perfectly. Duracool's flame point is actually higher than R134a's (that is, it's easier to ignite R134a than to ignite Duracool). It cools on par with R12.

Quote:
Originally posted by: bruceb
5) Use R152A .. This is the newer replacement for R134, but the system must be designed for it to be used.
No, technically-speaking R152a does not require special systems from a functionality standpoint. The changes for R152a are all around designing emergency purge systems to activate in the event of an accident due to R152a's high flammability and the fact that when R152a is ignited it decomposes into Hydrogen Fluoride which becomes hydrofluoric acid upon contact with the mucous membranes in the human body. R152a is far more dangerous than the hydrocarbon blends like propane or butane.

Quote:
Originally posted by: bruceb
6) Use R22 (this was used in cars back in the 50's) .. This is only for Home AC units and again, will not work with cars systems equipment.
The fact that R22 is typically used with home units is not relevant; it would work just fine in an automotive A/C system. However, R22 requires the use of barrier hoses, which older R12 cars may not have.

Quote:
Originally posted by: bruceb
The only way to make your car get colder, is with a larger capacity condenser, bigger compressor and added freon to match the larger parts.
You can also install electric fans blowing more air thru the condenser, so at low speeds, the ac works more efficiently.
While all these methods do work, changing from R134a to R12 or to Duracool absolutely will reduce vent temperatures and is perfectly safe provided that the proper lubricants are used.

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Old 09-20-2009, 03:21 PM   #10
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

I wouldn't want to use propane because it is an AC system not a fuel system. Having something flammable in a system not designed for a flammable gas is asking for trouble.

For me, to get colder AC, I'd need a new compressor as mine is just about shot
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:16 PM   #11
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

Quote:
Originally posted by: rdp6
Maybe there is a simpler solution:

Take your 2009 Ford product back to the dealer to have the AC inspected. They just might find some way to make it colder for you.

Worked for me with a 2007 VW product. Nice and easy.
This - If you have a 2009 anything and the A/C doesn't cool down properly make the dealer fix it.
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:16 PM   #12
rdp6
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

Maybe there is a simpler solution:

Take your 2009 Ford product back to the dealer to have the AC inspected. They just might find some way to make it colder for you.

Worked for me with a 2007 VW product. Nice and easy.
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:52 PM   #13
Raizinman
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

Wow, finally the intelligent answer I was waiting for, instead of all the goofball myths from the Goobers and Gomers.
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:56 PM   #14
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

Quote:
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Quote:
Originally posted by: bruceb
5) Use R152A .. This is the newer replacement for R134, but the system must be designed for it to be used.
No, technically-speaking R152a does not require special systems from a functionality standpoint. The changes for R152a are all around designing emergency purge systems to activate in the event of an accident due to R152a's high flammability and the fact that when R152a is ignited it decomposes into Hydrogen Fluoride which becomes hydrofluoric acid upon contact with the mucous membranes in the human body. R152a is far more dangerous than the hydrocarbon blends like propane or butane.
Wait...seriously? What kind of gibbering idiot thought that this would be a good idea?
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:58 PM   #15
Raizinman
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

The problem with taking it back to the dealer is that there is no problem with the R134 system as it came from the factory. The dealership is limited to only making factory repairs to a factory system. They cannot alter the system or change refrigerants expecially on a vehicle under warranty. Nobody said the factory A/C was not performing up to par. It is. Due to a medical condition, it is necessary that the inside temperature of the vehicle to be as cold as possible. Its understood that alterations of the factory AC would void the factory warranty, but a persons comfort and life is a bit more important.

The point of this thread was to find out if anyone had any experience with alternative refrigerants/lubricants to obtain a colder inside temperature. It appears Zemmervolt the Garage Moderator was the only person here who is knowledgable with this question. Thank you.



Quote:
Originally posted by: rdp6
Maybe there is a simpler solution:

Take your 2009 Ford product back to the dealer to have the AC inspected. They just might find some way to make it colder for you.

Worked for me with a 2007 VW product. Nice and easy.
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Old 09-20-2009, 05:52 PM   #16
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

Quote:
Originally posted by: jagec
Quote:
Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
Quote:
Originally posted by: bruceb
5) Use R152A .. This is the newer replacement for R134, but the system must be designed for it to be used.
No, technically-speaking R152a does not require special systems from a functionality standpoint. The changes for R152a are all around designing emergency purge systems to activate in the event of an accident due to R152a's high flammability and the fact that when R152a is ignited it decomposes into Hydrogen Fluoride which becomes hydrofluoric acid upon contact with the mucous membranes in the human body. R152a is far more dangerous than the hydrocarbon blends like propane or butane.
Wait...seriously? What kind of gibbering idiot thought that this would be a good idea?
Flash fire is not the only concern with R-152a. If ignited, R-152a decomposes into hydrogen fluoride which can be deadly toxic to the human body...

Upon contact with moisture, including tissue, hydrogen fluoride immediately converts to hydrofluoric acid, which is highly corrosive and toxic, and requires immediate medical attention.

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Old 09-21-2009, 09:31 AM   #17
LTC8K6
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Default How to make your A/C Colder?

Quote:
Originally posted by: Raizinman
The problem with taking it back to the dealer is that there is no problem with the R134 system as it came from the factory. The dealership is limited to only making factory repairs to a factory system. They cannot alter the system or change refrigerants expecially on a vehicle under warranty. Nobody said the factory A/C was not performing up to par. It is. Due to a medical condition, it is necessary that the inside temperature of the vehicle to be as cold as possible. Its understood that alterations of the factory AC would void the factory warranty, but a persons comfort and life is a bit more important.

The point of this thread was to find out if anyone had any experience with alternative refrigerants/lubricants to obtain a colder inside temperature. It appears Zemmervolt the Garage Moderator was the only person here who is knowledgable with this question. Thank you.
That info would have been helpful earlier if you wanted better responses.
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