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Old 08-31-2009, 02:47 PM   #1
jayhawk1
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

I just ordered an Intel 80GB G2 SSD. My motherboard is an old ASUS A8N-SLI Premium without AHCI support. Will I run into trouble getting TRIM to work with Windows 7?
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:56 PM   #2
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

AFAIK yes. TRIM requires AHCI to work.
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Old 08-31-2009, 04:49 PM   #3
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

Wonder if there's any way to run a wiper tool on Intel drives?

http://www.anandtech.com/stora...owdoc.aspx?i=3631&p=13
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:14 PM   #4
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

Quote:
Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
AFAIK yes. TRIM requires AHCI to work.
Why would the command require a certain controller interface type to be implemented? I'm genuinely curious.

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Old 08-31-2009, 09:26 PM   #5
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

Quote:
Originally posted by: zagood
Wonder if there's any way to run a wiper tool on Intel drives?

http://www.anandtech.com/stora...owdoc.aspx?i=3631&p=13
I am assuming you mean on an intel G1?
you would have to custom create one from scratch... and hack the drive firmware as well which I doubt will be doable...
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:43 PM   #6
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

Quote:
Originally posted by: taltamir
I am assuming you mean on an intel G1?
you would have to custom create one from scratch... and hack the drive firmware as well which I doubt will be doable...
I actually meant on a G2 for people that aren't using Win7, or have a non-ahci enabled motherboard like OP.

But, talk about timing...
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2331208&enterthread=y

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Old 09-01-2009, 08:02 AM   #7
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

I really appreciate the responses including some hopeful alternatives. Frankly, this was a bit of a careless lack of research on my part. I know that one choice would be to replace the core parts of my system - motherboard, cpu, memory.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
My motherboard is an old ASUS A8N-SLI Premium without AHCI support.
I've had this board and it supports AHCI.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:57 AM   #9
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

Old Hippie - I don't see anything in the BIOS or manual for AHCI. Did I overlook the answer? I guess it is obvious you are saying I overlooked something for which I am thankful. If you could give me a hint for the basis of your statement that the A8N-SLI Premium motherboard supports AHCI then I would be appreciative.
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:45 AM   #10
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I dunno what to tell ya nor do I recall the BIOS version I was using.

I had an AHCI option in my BIOS but in may have been under the RAID setting.

I also seem to remember having to update the chipset driver first.

I know I had it enabled because drive performance was actually worse with AHCI enabled and I disabled it.

I don't remember going thru all this hassle but I may have used a driver pack from there.

Sorry I can't remember more details but that's been many Buds ago. :beer:

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Old 09-01-2009, 11:47 AM   #11
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

Quote:
I know I had it enabled because drive performance was actually worse with AHCI enabled and I disabled it.
For SINGLE file copy or for multiple concurrent file reads and writes?
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by: taltamir
Quote:
I know I had it enabled because drive performance was actually worse with AHCI enabled and I disabled it.
For SINGLE file copy or for multiple concurrent file reads and writes?
As per whatever the HD testing tools I was using at the time.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:12 PM   #13
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

so that will be the totally irrelevant "MB/s sequential single file only"
aka, the figure according to which jmicron drives are the fastest drives in the world
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by: taltamir
so that will be the totally irrelevant "MB/s sequential single file only"
aka, the figure according to which jmicron drives are the fastest drives in the world
I suppose.

I used 3 different HD utilities and they all showed the same results.

I do remember disabling "NCQ" and getting better test results.

IIRC the NForce4 wasn't the best chipset in the world and I pretty much swore off nvidia for my main MBs.

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Old 09-01-2009, 01:13 PM   #15
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

This is part of an old review at PC Perspective but it shows the difference between IDE and AHCI on a G1. http://www.pcper.com/article.p...=669&type=expert&pid=3 Doesn't help with the trim but some of the articles I have read say that you can probably get by without it for a while.
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:15 PM   #16
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Quote:
so that will be the totally irrelevant "MB/s sequential single file only"
Are you saying I should have left AHCI enabled?
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:30 PM   #17
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i am saying, try resting and paying careful attention to what is being tested.
NCQ should be slower on single file sequential, but faster at multiple concurrent files (sequential or random, especially random)... which are what really matters in the end.

NCQ performance also greatly varies depending on the quality of the firmware in the drive that you use
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Old 09-01-2009, 03:36 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by: taltamir
i am saying, try resting and paying careful attention to what is being tested.
NCQ should be slower on single file sequential, but faster at multiple concurrent files (sequential or random, especially random)... which are what really matters in the end.

NCQ performance also greatly varies depending on the quality of the firmware in the drive that you use
So you're saying that the HD testing utilities avaliable for the consumer aren't any good for real world desktop use?
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Old 09-01-2009, 05:38 PM   #19
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

tests that exclusively (or heavily, even) use sequential reads are pretty worthless as a desktop benchmark, yes.
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:07 PM   #20
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Default SSD Implications without AHCI

Quote:
Originally posted by: Old Hippie
Quote:
Originally posted by: taltamir
i am saying, try resting and paying careful attention to what is being tested.
NCQ should be slower on single file sequential, but faster at multiple concurrent files (sequential or random, especially random)... which are what really matters in the end.

NCQ performance also greatly varies depending on the quality of the firmware in the drive that you use
So you're saying that the HD testing utilities avaliable for the consumer aren't any good for real world desktop use?
that is EXACTLY what I am saying... and I got that bit from anandtechs recent article about SSDs...
http://www.anandtech.com/stora...howdoc.aspx?i=3631&p=1

Not on this page... somewhere in there it said that (IIRC)
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Old 09-01-2009, 08:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by: taltamir
Quote:
Originally posted by: Old Hippie
Quote:
Originally posted by: taltamir
i am saying, try resting and paying careful attention to what is being tested.
NCQ should be slower on single file sequential, but faster at multiple concurrent files (sequential or random, especially random)... which are what really matters in the end.

NCQ performance also greatly varies depending on the quality of the firmware in the drive that you use
So you're saying that the HD testing utilities avaliable for the consumer aren't any good for real world desktop use?
that is EXACTLY what I am saying... and I got that bit from anandtechs recent article about SSDs...
http://www.anandtech.com/stora...howdoc.aspx?i=3631&p=1

Not on this page... somewhere in there it said that (IIRC)
OK.

What test(s) would you suggest to simulate a desktop environment and why should your suggestion negate every current test result?

This should include all the test results that you have quoted in the past for your exalted G2.

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Old 09-01-2009, 08:27 PM   #22
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follow the testing methology used by anand, or pcper, or someone else who knows their stuff.
When exactly have i exalted the G2 based on canned benchmarks from "testing suites"?

The G2 gets great results from the testings done by reviewers... and it gets great results from my real world usage, it is the best PC upgrade i have made in a long time. Not based on any "score", but based on my empirical observations. Of course, its amazing performance as reported by the professionals is why I bought it in the first place.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:17 PM   #23
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Quote:
follow the testing methology used by anand, or pcper, or someone else who knows their stuff.
Let's hear a suggestion for the average consumer so we can compare with the "Big Boys", who BTW, use the same tests as I did.

Are we gonna compare apples and oranges here?

Quote:
When exactly have i exalted the G2 based on canned benchmarks from "testing suites"?
Gimme a break....

Here's you and Our tests are a good mix of synthetic and real-world benchmarks. PCMark, IOMeter, HDTach, HDTune, PC Respective on July 22nd, before your purchase.

It's clear to anyone that's been here awhile and read your posts that an Intel drive was your choice from reading reviews based on the same tests that I used to confirm that a nvidia4 chipset was slower in AHCI mode than IDE.

My origional question...
Quote:
So you're saying that the HD testing utilities avaliable for the consumer aren't any good for real world desktop use?
has been answered by a resounding "NO".

If that's the case, all HD tests by any review site including this one that use consumer based tests, are suspect and should not be trusted?



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Old 09-01-2009, 10:02 PM   #24
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Quote:
When exactly have i exalted the G2 based on canned benchmarks from "testing suites"?
Quote:
It's clear to anyone that's been here awhile and read your posts that an Intel drive was your choice from reading reviews
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Old 09-01-2009, 10:10 PM   #25
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This needs further explanation.

The perfect disk benchmark is the one that is exactly identical to your user workload.
There is no such thing, so we try to emulate one by using a benchmark tool.
If you regularly copy multi-GB files around or edit uncompressed 2X video, then yes a seq write benchmark closely characterizes your workload. However, normal desktop workloads in offices, in computer games... In most activities is better represented as concurrent random IOs. NCQ improves concurrent random IOs at the expense of seq transfer operations.
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