Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Social > Off Topic

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2013
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #76
dullard
Elite Member
 
dullard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Location
Posts: 19,294
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Repost of decades old arguments. You don't fix flawed social laws by being unhealthy or killing people.
dullard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #77
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: dullard
Repost of decades old arguments. You don't fix flawed laws by being unhealthy or killing people.
It is NOT a repost, It is an article that includes that study AND others.

Sorry for your mistake.
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #78
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: dullard
You don't fix flawed social laws by being unhealthy or killing people.
What?
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #79
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
 
JulesMaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego (aka Literbike, CA)
Posts: 66,760
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

This just in, not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle costs society less money than those who wear them. Let's repeal seatbelt laws too while we're at it! Because when more people die, we all win!
__________________
I see conservative commentator Glenn Beck as "Satan's mentally challenged younger brother." -Stephen King

"I felt so awesome and important, even though I was just a homeschooled shut-in loser. These days I have a much higher post count." -Hamburgerboy
JulesMaximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #80
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
This just in, not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle costs society less money than those who wear them. Let's repeal seatbelt laws too while we're at it! Because when more people die, we all win!
Why is it YOUR business to protect others from themselves? Who appointed you mother?
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #81
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Quote:
Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents.
Yeah, that's because the country taxes the shit out of cigs now. Before the major shift and a pack was dirt cheap, that sentence would read something like "the country has a net cost of...".
"Willard Manning, a professor of health economics and policy at the University of Chicago's Harris School of Public Policy Studies, was lead author on a paper published two decades ago in the Journal of the American Medical Association that found that, taking into account tobacco taxes in effect at the time, smokers were not a financial burden to society. "
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #82
dullard
Elite Member
 
dullard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Location
Posts: 19,294
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
It is NOT a repost
Lets look at what was posted yesterday:

Quote:
Originally posted by: TheBloodguard
A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.
And what was posted today:

Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.
You even bolded the exact same words. At least you could have put that in the original thread if you have an article with a bit more text.

Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Sorry for your mistake.
I hereby nominate Amuse for the 2009 self-ownage of the year award.
dullard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #83
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: dullard
Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
It is NOT a repost
Lets look at what was posted yesterday:

Quote:
Originally posted by: TheBloodguard
A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.
And what was posted today:

Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.
You even bolded the exact same words. At least you could have put that in the original thread if you have an article with a bit more text.

Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Sorry for your mistake.
I hereby nominate Amuse for the 2009 self-ownage of the year award.
Oops, I thought it was a year old article on the dutch study alone.

My mistake.
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #84
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Quote:
Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents.
Yeah, that's because the country taxes the shit out of cigs now. Before the major shift and a pack was dirt cheap, that sentence would read something like "the country has a net cost of...".

Quote:
A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.

The reason: The thin, healthy people lived much longer.
Their conclusion is flawed. Thin and healthy people lived much longer and thus were more productive through their entire lifetime, therefore providing more benefit (financial?) to themselves, the economy, etc. The number they state would/should be offset by this factor, making this argument severely flawed.
We are talking about post retirement years. Not productive pre-retirement years.

That's where your argument falls apart. The last ten years of life are a drain when someone is chronically aged, less so when someone is productive until a catastrophic smoking illness takes their lives.
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #85
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
 
JulesMaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego (aka Literbike, CA)
Posts: 66,760
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
This just in, not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle costs society less money than those who wear them. Let's repeal seatbelt laws too while we're at it! Because when more people die, we all win!
Why is it YOUR business to protect others from themselves? Who appointed you mother?
Look, it's no secret that a vast majority of our society wants to eliminate smoking cigarettes. I have no problem with that so I don't oppose laws and taxes on smoking that will discourage smoking. I sure as fuck don't want my son to start smoking when he is in his teens. I know how difficult it is to quit smoking because I started smoking when I was in my teens.

Nobody appointed me mother. I just don't have a problem with any of these laws. I'm all for them!
__________________
I see conservative commentator Glenn Beck as "Satan's mentally challenged younger brother." -Stephen King

"I felt so awesome and important, even though I was just a homeschooled shut-in loser. These days I have a much higher post count." -Hamburgerboy
JulesMaximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #86
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
 
JulesMaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego (aka Literbike, CA)
Posts: 66,760
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Quote:
Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents.
Yeah, that's because the country taxes the shit out of cigs now. Before the major shift and a pack was dirt cheap, that sentence would read something like "the country has a net cost of...".

Quote:
A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.

The reason: The thin, healthy people lived much longer.
Their conclusion is flawed. Thin and healthy people lived much longer and thus were more productive through their entire lifetime, therefore providing more benefit (financial?) to themselves, the economy, etc. The number they state would/should be offset by this factor, making this argument severely flawed.
We are talking about post retirement years. Not productive pre-retirement years.

That's where your argument falls apart. The last ten years of life are a drain when someone is chronically aged, less so when someone is productive until a catastrophic smoking illness takes their lives.
So, your solution is to give them cigarettes and have them smoke themselves to death? Why not just march the elderly into detention centers before they reach that point and make soylent green burgers out of them?
__________________
I see conservative commentator Glenn Beck as "Satan's mentally challenged younger brother." -Stephen King

"I felt so awesome and important, even though I was just a homeschooled shut-in loser. These days I have a much higher post count." -Hamburgerboy
JulesMaximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #87
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Quote:
Vanderbilt University economist Kip Viscusi studied the net costs of smoking-related spending and savings and found that for every pack of cigarettes smoked, the country reaps a net cost savings of 32 cents.
Yeah, that's because the country taxes the shit out of cigs now. Before the major shift and a pack was dirt cheap, that sentence would read something like "the country has a net cost of...".

Quote:
A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.

The reason: The thin, healthy people lived much longer.
Their conclusion is flawed. Thin and healthy people lived much longer and thus were more productive through their entire lifetime, therefore providing more benefit (financial?) to themselves, the economy, etc. The number they state would/should be offset by this factor, making this argument severely flawed.
We are talking about post retirement years. Not productive pre-retirement years.

That's where your argument falls apart. The last ten years of life are a drain when someone is chronically aged, less so when someone is productive until a catastrophic smoking illness takes their lives.
So, your solution is to give them cigarettes and have them smoke themselves to death? Why not just march the elderly into detention centers before they reach that point and make soylent green burgers out of them?
Who said it was a "solution" to anything?

It is my argument against bans/limits/taxes" It is my argument against authoritarian laws.

Sorry the idea of freedom and letting people do what they want with their own bodies is so alien to you that you equate that idea with Nazi death camps and sci-fi atrocities.
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #88
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: Homerboy
Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
This just in, not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle costs society less money than those who wear them. Let's repeal seatbelt laws too while we're at it! Because when more people die, we all win!
Why is it YOUR business to protect others from themselves? Who appointed you mother?
It's MY business becuase your smoking in public places affects my enjoyment of those places by tainting them with disgusting smells and dangerous smoke to my lungs.

It's MY business because countless smokers decided the world was their ashtray and toss their butts onto public sidewalks, gutters and parkways.

Smoking is simply a disgusting habit that people pick up for the simple fact to "look cool" with not a simple redeeming quality behind it.

I am SOOO happy they jacked up the taxes again. Keep them coming.
You know what happens when the people get to tax and ban things they don't like? Pretty soon, something you favor will fall under their axe.

What will you do when it's your bull getting gored?
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #89
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: Paperdoc
Using costs gets us to all kinds of odd conclusions. For example, capital punishment is a much cheaper way to handle murderers than long-term incarceration. In fact, considering the recidivism rate among most criminals, a major expansion of using the death penalty would really reduce our prison costs!

All the arguments above illustrate that, while costs are a useful type of information in making decisions, they also are quite unreliable. So why do we do it all the time? In part, because it has become a cultural norm in a supposedly business-oriented free market society to consider dollar numbers as really important. And in part because we're lazy. It is pretty easy to quantify most things in terms of dollars spent and earned, wasted or saved. Gets you an number quickly. But how do you put a number on the value of the existence (vs. death = non existence) of a person, to other people or to the greater society? How do you quantify "quality of life" for a sick or an elderly person with disorders that affect their daily lifestyle? You probably can't assign those numbers, and we are so dependent on hard numbers to justify decisions that cannot be challenged, that we will use the numbers available, no matter how questionable, and we will ignore other types of non-quantifiable information.
"Cost to society" is the driving forced behind the extreme taxation and much of the laws on tobacco use.

Let's face facts, the majority could care less if people die from smoking. It's the idea that they are paying more for their care that makes the majority want to punish the minority here.
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #90
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
 
JulesMaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego (aka Literbike, CA)
Posts: 66,760
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: nakedfrog

I think his solution is to let people make their own damned decisions.
Well, when it comes to seatbelts, motorcycle helmets and smoking people often make the wrong decisions.

Again, I have no problem making smoking seem like a bad decision through legislation and higher taxes. I have no problem with cops writing tickets to people not wearing seatbelts or helmets. Society is trying to change people's habits and guess what? It's working!
__________________
I see conservative commentator Glenn Beck as "Satan's mentally challenged younger brother." -Stephen King

"I felt so awesome and important, even though I was just a homeschooled shut-in loser. These days I have a much higher post count." -Hamburgerboy
JulesMaximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #91
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Quote:
Originally posted by: nakedfrog

I think his solution is to let people make their own damned decisions.
Well, when it comes to seatbelts, motorcycle helmets and smoking people often make the wrong decisions.

Again, I have no problem making smoking seem like a bad decision through legislation and higher taxes. I have no problem with cops writing tickets to people not wearing seatbelts or helmets. Society is trying to change people's habits and guess what? It's working!
Wrong according to YOU. Who are you to dictate what others do with their bodies?
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #92
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
 
JulesMaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego (aka Literbike, CA)
Posts: 66,760
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: Homerboy
Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
This just in, not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle costs society less money than those who wear them. Let's repeal seatbelt laws too while we're at it! Because when more people die, we all win!
Why is it YOUR business to protect others from themselves? Who appointed you mother?
It's MY business becuase your smoking in public places affects my enjoyment of those places by tainting them with disgusting smells and dangerous smoke to my lungs.

It's MY business because countless smokers decided the world was their ashtray and toss their butts onto public sidewalks, gutters and parkways.

Smoking is simply a disgusting habit that people pick up for the simple fact to "look cool" with not a simple redeeming quality behind it.

I am SOOO happy they jacked up the taxes again. Keep them coming.
You know what happens when the people get to tax and ban things they don't like? Pretty soon, something you favor will fall under their axe.

What will you do when it's your bull getting gored?
Ah, the slippery slope argument...right on schedule too.
__________________
I see conservative commentator Glenn Beck as "Satan's mentally challenged younger brother." -Stephen King

"I felt so awesome and important, even though I was just a homeschooled shut-in loser. These days I have a much higher post count." -Hamburgerboy
JulesMaximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #93
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
 
JulesMaximus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: San Diego (aka Literbike, CA)
Posts: 66,760
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Quote:
Originally posted by: nakedfrog

I think his solution is to let people make their own damned decisions.
Well, when it comes to seatbelts, motorcycle helmets and smoking people often make the wrong decisions.

Again, I have no problem making smoking seem like a bad decision through legislation and higher taxes. I have no problem with cops writing tickets to people not wearing seatbelts or helmets. Society is trying to change people's habits and guess what? It's working!
Wrong according to YOU. Who are you to dictate what others do with their bodies?
Psst, let me let you in on a little secret, it's not ME. I just said I don't oppose it, and I really don't.
__________________
I see conservative commentator Glenn Beck as "Satan's mentally challenged younger brother." -Stephen King

"I felt so awesome and important, even though I was just a homeschooled shut-in loser. These days I have a much higher post count." -Hamburgerboy
JulesMaximus is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #94
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: Homerboy
Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
This just in, not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle costs society less money than those who wear them. Let's repeal seatbelt laws too while we're at it! Because when more people die, we all win!
Why is it YOUR business to protect others from themselves? Who appointed you mother?
It's MY business becuase your smoking in public places affects my enjoyment of those places by tainting them with disgusting smells and dangerous smoke to my lungs.

It's MY business because countless smokers decided the world was their ashtray and toss their butts onto public sidewalks, gutters and parkways.

Smoking is simply a disgusting habit that people pick up for the simple fact to "look cool" with not a simple redeeming quality behind it.

I am SOOO happy they jacked up the taxes again. Keep them coming.
You know what happens when the people get to tax and ban things they don't like? Pretty soon, something you favor will fall under their axe.

What will you do when it's your bull getting gored?
Ah, the slippery slope argument...right on schedule too.
An extremely valid argument, especially when it comes to authoritarian laws.
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #95
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Amused, congrats for creating yet another heated debate thread. Your reputation for this is nothing short of legendary.
I know.

Hey, it's better than mindless neffing, right?
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #96
Genx87
Lifer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 35,982
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: NFS4
So, smokers are still disgusting and they smell like shit
So do bums, should be ban them as well??????
__________________
"Communism can be defined as the longest route from capitalism to capitalism."
"Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth. Socialism is the equal distribution of poverty"
"Because you can trust freedom when it is not in your hand. When everybody is fighting for their promised land"
Genx87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #97
Genx87
Lifer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 35,982
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: SunnyD

Their conclusion is flawed. Thin and healthy people lived much longer and thus were more productive through their entire (longer) lifetime, therefore providing more benefit (financial?) to themselves, the economy, etc. The number they state would/should be offset by this factor, making this argument severely flawed.
I think that is a leap. Are you assuming these people work past retirement? If not they are a drain on the system each year they are living past being a "productive" member of society.
__________________
"Communism can be defined as the longest route from capitalism to capitalism."
"Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth. Socialism is the equal distribution of poverty"
"Because you can trust freedom when it is not in your hand. When everybody is fighting for their promised land"
Genx87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #98
mugs
Lifer
 
mugs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 48,795
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: dullard
Repost of decades old arguments. You don't fix flawed laws by being unhealthy or killing people.
It is NOT a repost, It is an article that includes that study AND others.

Sorry for your mistake.
Then hit reply and post in the other thread. I don't care what your mother told you, you're not special.
__________________
"Eli doesn't have what it takes to beat the Patriots in the big show. This game will be over by halftime." - PaulNEPats a.k.a. Reckoner; Super Bowl XLII

"Giants are the luckiest team I've ever seen in my entire life" - Reckoner; Super Bowl XLVI
mugs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #99
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Quote:
Originally posted by: Amused
Quote:
Originally posted by: SunnyD
Quote:
A Dutch study published last year in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal said that health care costs for smokers were about $326,000 from age 20 on, compared to about $417,000 for thin and healthy people.

The reason: The thin, healthy people lived much longer.
Their conclusion is flawed. Thin and healthy people lived much longer and thus were more productive through their entire lifetime, therefore providing more benefit (financial?) to themselves, the economy, etc. The number they state would/should be offset by this factor, making this argument severely flawed.
We are talking about post retirement years. Not productive pre-retirement years.

That's where your argument falls apart. The last ten years of life are a drain when someone is chronically aged, less so when someone is productive until a catastrophic smoking illness takes their lives.
Are we? Really? God, I'd love to have retired at age 20. :roll:
LOL!!! You're misreading his point.

His point is LIFETIME medical costs as an ADULT.

Smoking kills people late. On average, the life expectancy of a smoker is 10 years less than a non-smoker.
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2009, 09:53 AM   #100
Amused
Elite Member
 
Amused's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Torrance CA
Posts: 48,911
Default Fact Check: Smokers May Not Cost Society Lots of Money After All

Quote:
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Here's a huge gaping hole in that study:

People who stay healthier and live longer are more productive members of society. They provide more benefit to the economy than a smoker in a hospital bed dying prematurely of cancer.

Furthermore, it doesn't even address second-hand smoke.

Why else do you think the word "MAY" was used so prominently in the title.
Should have read the thread.

Especially the part where people pointed out those living longer do so POST retirement and in the Medicare/Social Security ages thus costing more, and producing nothing.
__________________
President and Ambivalent Dictator for Life of The Amused Fsck Off and Die Club

Join Now!!!

Everything I post is, by default, NSFW. There's your warning! Now stop wasting your boss' money and get back to work!
Amused is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.