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Old 03-06-2009, 07:22 AM   #1
Red Irish
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,605
Default Securom on Games

Warning: Long post covering a topic that has been widely addressed in recent months. If you are already fully aware of the threats entailed by Securom, please skip to the end of the post to the section entitled "Proposed Action". I am ware that this has all been said before, but given the response from the companies, or rather lack thereof, I think we have a duty and a commitment to ensure that coverage of this topic is maintained

By now, everyone should be familiar with the issue of Securom and the manner in which it is adversely affecting the pc gaming community in recent months. However, for those of you who have been living under a rock, the situation could be summed up as follows:

1) A number of companies, particularly EA, are using a form of DRM called Securom, devised by Sony, for the alleged purpose of protecting their games against piracy.
2) To the best of my knowledge, no company includes a statement relating to Securom on the EULA. Therefore this software downloads and installs without the user's knowledge and can therefore be classified as malware or a rootkit.
3) Securom can cause conflict with legally purchased software installed on the computer, such as Nero. The software seemingly scans the system to detect programs that it terms as pirate tools and prevents the user from installing the purchased game.
4) There are reports of Securom causing damage to hardware.
5) Securom remains on the computer even after the game is uninstalled.
6) There are various levels of Securom ranging from the draconian install limitations imposed on titles such as EA?s Spore to the seemingly more innocent disk check employed on Bethsheba?s Fallout 3. Securom may or may not force the user to have an Internet connection in order to play the game and may or may not limit the number of times a game can be installed. This raises a question: where Internet is required, what other information relating to our systems is being sent and to whom?
7) Statistics have consistently shown that Securom has no effect on piracy. Indeed, the stated purpose of combating piracy is deliberate misinformation: Securom appears to be an attack on the gaming rental and resale industry or a covert attempt to herd us all towards consoles. Pirated copies of games do not include Securom.
8) Securom makes the user?s pc more vulnerable to external attacks.
9) Despite numerous complaints, campaigns to award low ratings to games that include Securom on sites such as Amazon and moves to commence legal proceedings, major companies continue to use Securom and justify its inclusion as a means of preventing piracy. The CEO of Electronic Arts has actually dismissed customers who complained about Securom on a number of titles as pirates or ignoramuses.
10) Pirates do not complain about Securom as it never reaches their system; ignoramuses do not complain about Securom as they are blissfully unaware that it is on their system.

I have probably omitted a number of points, but I think that the statements above provide a fairly accurate description of Securom, its effects and its purpose. Securom has prevented me from purchasing a number of titles in recent months. I refuse to buy a game that will install software on to my system without my permission . I also refuse to buy a game that requires me to connect to a server for validation: if a game requires Internet connection, then it has been rented rather than purchased from the company. I am bemused by the number of people who justify Securom or who are willing to accept the inclusion of the ?more sedate? versions of Securom on the games they purchase [rent], particularly when we are unaware of the full implications of having this software installed on our systems.

Valve's Steam raises other issues: certain games published by EA retain their Securom on Steam. In any event, Steam requires the user to have an Internet connection and we are dependant on the server remaining in operation in the future. It is unlikely that Steam will suddenly disappear, but it would not be the first time that an on-line service has left its clients out in the cold. Once again, Steam involves leasing a product rather than purchasing it.

Games listed by publisher with securom version.

as of 3/3/09

taken from http://reclaimyourgame.com/index.p [...] &Itemid=11

see also below for other DRM
http://forum.daemon-tools.cc/gamedb.php?letter=all


505 Games
ArmA: Armed Assault (7.33.0005) [v1.14]
Cryostasis: The Sleep of Reason (7.38.0014)
Men of War (7.38.0009)
NecroVisioN (7.39.0004)

Activision
Kung Fu Panda (7.36.0011)
Monsters vs Aliens (7.39.0004)

Aerosoft
Sunrise: The Game (7.35.0007)
World of Subways Volume 1 New York Underground (7.38.0007)

ANACONDA
Overclocked (7.33.0015)

Aspyr Media
Dreamfall: The Longest Journey (7.20.0010)
Gothic 2 (Gold) (7.10.0008)
Gothic 2 - The Night of the Raven (Gold) (7.00.00.0004)
The Guild 2 (7.27.0012)
Guitar Hero III (7.35.0007)
Guitar Hero: Aerosmith (7.37.0014)
Stubbs the Zombie (7.18.xxxx)
Tony Hawk's American Wasteland (7.00.00.0022)
True Crime: New York City (7.00.00.0027)

Atari
Alone in the Dark? (7.37.0012)
Boiling Point: Road to Hell (7.00.00.0022)
Civilization III Complete (7.00.00)
Crashday (7.20.0010)
The Da Vinci Code (7.24.0009)
Deer Hunter Tournament (7.38.0007)
Everlight (7.38.0006)
Fantasy Wars (7.37.0008)
GTR Evolution (7.37.0012)
GTR 2 - FIA GT Racing Game (7.29.0009)
King's Bounty: The Legend? (7.37.0014)
Indigo Propechy (7.12.xxxx)
Legendary (7.38.0011)
The Matrix: Path of Neo (7.12.xxxx)
Neverwinter Nights 2 (7.33.0012)
Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer (7.33.0014)
Neverwinter Nights 2: Storm of Zehir (7.38.0012)
Race 07 (7.38.0013)
Roller Coaster Tycoon 3: Soaked! (7.00.00.0115)
Roller Coaster Tycoon 3: Wild! (7.00.00.0137)
Scorpion: Disfigured (7.39.0005)
STCC: The Game (7.37.0014)
Test Drive Unlimited (7.33.0012)

Bethesda Softworks
Elder Scrolls IV: Shivering Isles (7.30.0015)
Fallout 3 (7.36.0006)

Buena Vista Games
Desperate Housewives: The Game (7.xx.xxxx)

Capcom
Bionic Commando: Rearmed (7.37.0014)
Devil May Cry 3: Dante's Awakening (7.xx.xxxx)
Devil May Cry 4 (7.37.0007)
Lost Planet: Extreme Condition (Colonies Edition) (07.36.0012)
MotoGP 08 (7.38.0009)

cdv Software Entertainment
2weistein - Das Geheimnis des roten Drachen (7.37.0014)
Escape From Paradise City (7.33.0016)
Sacred 2: Fallen Angel? (7.38.0009)
Tarr Chronicles (7.33.0015)

Cenega
UFO: Afterlight (7.30.0014)

Codemasters
Clive Barker's Jericho (7.33.0016)
Leisure Suit Larry: Box Office Bust (7.39.0005)
Maelstrom (7.29.xxxx)
Overlord (7.34.0014)
Race Driver GRID (07.37.0010)
Rise of the Argonauts (7.38.0014)
Sensible Soccer 2006 (7.02.xxxx)
Turning Point: Fall of Liberty (7.36.0006)

Crimson Cow
The Abbey [German] (7.37.0008)
A Vampyre Story (7.38.0013)

D3 Publisher
Puzzle Quest: Galactrix (7.39.0004)

Disney Interactive Studios
Bolt (7.38.0014)
The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian (7.37.0008)
High School Musical 3: Senior Year DANCE! (7.38.0007)
Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (7.32.0012)
Pure (7.37.0014)

dtp entertainment
Drakensang: The Dark Eye (7.38.0012)
Undercover: Operation Wintersun (7.00.00.0025)

Ediciones Sm
Donkey Xote (7.35.0006)

Eidos Interactive
25 to Life (7.xx.xxxx)
Battlestations Midway (7.30.0014)
Bionicle Heroes (7.29.xxxx)
Championship Manager 2006 (7.xx.xxxx)
Championship Manager 2007 (7.xx.xxxx)
Championship Manager 2008 (7.33.0017)
Championship Manager 5 (7.xx.xxxx)
Commandos: Strike Force (7.19.0008)
Conflict: Denied Ops (7.35.0007)
Hitman: Blood Money (7.00.00.0018)
Just Cause (7.xx.xxxx)
Lego Star Wars (7.00.00.0012)
Project Snowblind (7.000.000.32)
Reservoir Dogs (7.26.0005)
Rogue Trooper (7.20.xxxx)
Shellshock 2: Blood Trails (7.38.0009)
Tomb Raider: Anniversary (7.xx.xxxx)
Tomb Raider: Legend (7.21.0012)
Tomb Raider: Underworld (7.38.0012)
Top Trumps: Doctor Who (7.35.0007)
Total Overdose (7.00.00.0067)

Electronic Arts
Battlefield 2142 (7.37.0007)
Burnout Paradise: The Ultimate Box? (7.38.0015)
Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3? (7.38.0014)
Command & Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath (7.37.0012)
Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars (7.37.0017)
Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars [Kane Edition] (7.33.0014)
Crysis (7.36.0007)
Crysis Warhead? (7.37.0014)
Crysis Wars? (7.37.0014)
Dead Space? (7.38.0007)
FIFA 08 / FIFA Soccer 2008 (7.xx.xxxx)
FIFA 09 / FIFA Soccer 2009? (7.37.0012)
FIFA Manager 09? (7.38.0009)
The Godfather II? (7.38.0015)
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (7.33.0005)
Hellgate: London (7.34.0014)
Littlest Pet Shop (7.xx.xxxx)
Lord of the Rings: Conquest? (7.38.0014)
Madden NFL 08 (7.33.0011)
Mass Effect? (7.37.0012)
Medal of Honor: Airborne (7.36.0007)
Mercenaries 2: World in Flames? (7.38.0006)
Mirror's Edge? (7.38.0015)
MySims (7.37.0012)
NBA Live 08 (7.xx.xxxx)
Need For Speed: Pro Street (7.34.0017)
Need For Speed: Undercover? (7.38.0012)
NHL 08 (7.xx.xxxx)
NHL 09? (7.37.0012)
Rail Simulator (7.35.0007)
SimCity Societies (7.35.0008)
The Sims Carnival: BumperBlast (7.35.0007)
The Sims Carnival: SnapCity (7.35.0006)
The Sims Castaway Stories (7.35.0007)
The Sims Pet Stories (7.33.0004)
The Sims 2 Apartment Life (7.37.0012)
The Sims 2 Bon Voyage (7.33.0014)
The Sims 2 Deluxe (7.32.0010)
The Sims 2 Double Deluxe (7.36.0010)
The Sims 2 FreeTime (7.37.0007)
The Sims 2 H&M Fashion Stuff (7.00.00.0311)
The Sims 2 IKEA Home Stuff (7.37.0007)
The Sims 2 Kitchen and Bath Interior Design Stuff (7.36.0010)
The Sims 2 Mansion and Garden Stuff (7.38.0011)
The Sims 2 Teen Style Stuff (7.xx.xxxx)
Spore? (7.37.0014)
Spore Creature Creator? (7.36.0012)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 08 (7.xx.xxxx)
UEFA Euro 2008 (7.36.0007)

Empire Interactive
FlatOut: Ultimate Carnage (7.37.0008)
Ford Racing: Off Road (7.36.0007)
International Cricket Captain 2008 (7.37.0008)

Encore Software
Hoyle Card games 2008 (7.xx.xxxx)

Enlight Software
Bad Day L.A. (7.xx.xxxx)
Monopoly Here And Now (7.30.0014)

Gamecock Media Group
Stronghold: Crusader Extreme (7.37.0007)

Konami
Crime Life: Gang Wars (7.00.00.0008)
Marvel Trading Card Game (7.30.0015)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 (7.xx.xxxx)
Pro Evolution Soccer 2009 (7.38.0013)
Pro Evolution Soccer 5 (7.xx.xxxx)
Pro Evolution Soccer 6 (7.27.0007)
The Regiment (7.xx.xxxx)

Lighthouse Interactive
Avencast: Rise of the Mage (7.35.0006) [v1.04]

LucasArts
Lego Indiana Jones (7.37.0008)
Lego Star Wars 2 (7.26.0009)
Sam and Max: Season 1 (7.xx.xxxx)
Sam and Max: Season 2 (7.37.0008)
Star Wars: Battlefront 2 (7.12.0013)
Star Wars: Empire at War (7.15.0005)
Star Wars: Empire at War: Forces of Corruption (7.28.0011)
Thrillville: Off the Rails (7.xx.xxxx)

Majesco
Advent Rising (7.12.0013)
BloodRayne 2 (7.00.00.0001)
Psychonauts (7.00.00.0009)

Microids
Dracula 3 - The Path of the Dragon (7.37.0014)

Midway
Happy Feet (7.27.0016)
Stranglehold (7.33.0014)
The Wheelman (7.39.0005)

Morphicon
Officers: World War II (7.38.0014)

Myelin Media
Immortal Cities: Children of the Nile (Enhanced Edition) (7.37.0012)
Stacked with Daniel Negreanu (7.00.00.0010)

Nobilis
Destination: Treasure Island (7.00.00.0001)
Fenimore Fillmore's Revenge (7.37.0014)
Hotel Giant 2 (7.38.0011)
Mountain Bike Adrenaline (07.36.0012)

Paradox Interactive
Combat Mission: Shock Force (7.33.0011)
Lost Empire (7.36.0006)
Penumbra: Black Plague (7.36.0007)

Red Mile Entertainment
El Matador (7.26.0007)

Rockstar Games
Grand Theft Auto IV? (7.38.0014)
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (7.11.0009)

RTL
Petanque 1907-2007 (7.33.0005)

Sega
Beijing 2008 (7.37.0012)
Football Manager 2008 (7.33.0017)
Medieval II Total War: Kingdoms (7.33.0014)
Outrun 2006: Coast 2 Coast (7.00.00.0016)

Sierra Entertainment
Caesar IV (7.27.0007)
Empire Earth III (7.34.0016)
F.E.A.R. Perseus Mandate (7.33.0016)

SouthPeak Games
Monster Madness: Battle for Suburbia (7.33.0004)

Take-Two Interactive
BioShock? (7.34.0007)
CivCity: Rome (7.24.0009)
Civilization IV: Colonization (7.37.0013)
The Da Vinci Code (7.xx.xxxx)
Dungeon Siege II: Broken World (7.24.0008)
Jade Empire: Special Edition (7.30.0015)
Major League Baseball 2K9 (7.xx.xxxx)
Pet Vet 3 Animal Hospital (7.27.0014)
Pet Vet 3 Animal Hospital Down Under (7.35.0007)
Pet Vet 3 My Animal Centre in Africa (7.xx.xxxx)
Pet Vet 3 Wild Animal Hospital (7.xx.xxxx)
Prey (7.27.0007) [v1.4]
Serious Sam 2 (7.21.0009)
Shattered Union (7.xx.xxxx)
Sid Meier's Railroads (7.30.0012)
Stronghold 2 (7.00.00.0021)
Stronghold Legends (7.27.0012)
Torino 2006 (7.00.00.0004)
Vietcong 2 (7.00.00.0043)

THQ
Broken Sword: The Angel Of Death (7.26.0007)
Company of Heroes? (7.33.0014)
Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts (7.33.0014)
Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor (7.xx.xxxx)
Constantine (7.01.xxxx)
Evil Dead: Regeneration (7.xx.xxxx)
Frontlines: Fuel of War (7.36.0007)
Full Spectrum Warrior: Ten Hammers (7.xx.xxxx)
The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer (7.xx.xxxx)
Juiced (7.00.00.0037)
Juiced 2: Hot Import Nights (7.33.0017)
MotoGP URT 3 (7.11.0009)
S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl (7.33.0014)
Supreme Commander (7.30.0014) [v3220]
Titan Quest (7.xx.xxxx)
WALL-E (7.37.0008)
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War: Soulstorm (7.21.0009)
Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War: Winter Assault (7.00.00.0074) [v1.5]

Touchstone
Turok (2008) (7.36.0012)

Ubisoft
Brothers in Arms: Hell's Highway (7.38.0006)
Call of Juarez (7.26.0005)
CSI: 3 Dimensions of Murder (7.00.00.011)
Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (7.28.0011)
Devil May Cry 3 (7.00.00.0006)
Driver: Parallel Lines (7.00.00.0047)
Faces of War (7.26.xxxx)
Far Cry 2? (7.38.0009)
Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter (7.27.0014)
Heroes of Might & Magic V (7.xx.xxxx) [v1.6]
Heroes of Might & Magic V: Hammers of Fate (7.26.0047)
Heroes of the Pacific (7.00.00.0022)
Myst V - End of Ages (7.00.00.0029)
Onimusha 3: Demon Siege (7.xx.xxxx)
Rayman Raving Rabids (7.29.0012)
Rugby Challenge 2006 (7.xx.xxxx)
The Settlers II: 10th Anniversary Edition (7.26.xxxx)
The Settlers II: 10th Anniversary Edition - The Vikings (7.30.0015)
The Settlers: Rise of an Empire [German] (7.37.0014)
Silent Hunter - Wolves of the Pacific (7.32.0010)
Surf's Up (7.32.0013)
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six: Vegas (7.30.0013)
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Conviction (7.xx.xxxx)
Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell: Double Agent (7.27.0014)
World in Conflict (7.34.0017) [010]

Vivendi

Empire Earth 2: The Art of Supremacy (7.12.xxxx)
F.E.A.R. (7.00.00.0128)
F.E.A.R. Extraction Point (7.27.xxxx)
Scarface: The World Is Yours (7.27.0006)

Warner Interactive
1 Ritter [German] (7.38.0014)
Wanted: Weapons of Fate (7.39.0005)



Proposed Action

What can we do? Obviously threads such as this have very little impact on the great scheme of things. However, collectively, I believe we could achieve something:

1) We should put pressure on the sites like Andantech to take an active role in denouncing the practice of including Securom.
2) We can inundate the companies that include Securom on their games with complaints. I urge everybody to send an e-mail to each of the companies listed above, particularly Electronic Arts, which is by far the worst offender, or write a forum post on the company's web site requesting, in the nicest possible terms, that they refrain from including malware in the form of Securom on their products
3) We can refrain from buying the game (I know that this is difficult as many of the games that include Securom are essential titles: the companies know this as well, hence their lack of response).
4) We can take legal action. The games do not make any reference to Securom on the EULA.

The entire issue requires some explanation. Given that Securom is ineffective in fighting piracy, what is its real purpose: steering the gaming community towards consoles, cracking down on second-hand sales? What is Sony getting out of this while it operates in the shadows? It all stinks.

Companies respond to demands and also shape demands. However, in recent months I think there has been a significant shift towards "shaping" and less emphasis on "responding". I long for a time whem I can simply buy a game, insert the disk and play it, without having to worry about what it will install on my system. Wishful thinking?

Cheers




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Old 03-06-2009, 07:31 AM   #2
Aberforth
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Default Securom on Games

Nothing you do will make them change their minds- copy protection existed several years ago and will continue to exist, just stop pirating the software- to do that you need to educate people, definitely not like this.
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:37 AM   #3
Red Irish
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Default Securom on Games

I am not pirating the software, or advocating that others do so. Securom does not combat piracy and the so-called "copy protection" you refer to appears to affect legitimate customers far more than pirates. What do you suggest?
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:42 AM   #4
Aberforth
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Default Securom on Games

Quote:
Originally posted by: Red Irish
I am not pirating the software, or advocating that others do so. Securom does not combat piracy and the so-called "copy protection" you refer to appears to affect legitimate customers far more than pirates. What do you suggest?
I suggest liberal copy protection schemes like deactivation, revoke tools or removal of protection wrappers after some time via software update.
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:44 AM   #5
nosfe
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Default Securom on Games

Quote:
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Nothing you do will make them change their minds- copy protection existed several years ago and will continue to exist, just stop pirating the software- to do that you need to educate people, definitely not like this.
you do realize that those dirty pirates are actually very smart and have figures out how to crack securom protection (very fast) so while legitimate users whine about installation limits those using pirated versions will say "what's that?"
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:49 AM   #6
Red Irish
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Default Securom on Games

Quote:
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Quote:
Originally posted by: Red Irish
I am not pirating the software, or advocating that others do so. Securom does not combat piracy and the so-called "copy protection" you refer to appears to affect legitimate customers far more than pirates. What do you suggest?
I suggest liberal copy protection schemes like deactivation, revoke tools or removal of protection wrappers after some time via software update.
I would urge companies to release patches to retroactively remove Securom from all previous releases. Let's be clear here, I am not suggesting that games should be released without copy protection. I am stating that installing potentially harmful software on our machines without our consent or knowledge is unquestionably wrong, moreso when the software in question fails to accomplish its stated intended purpose. Securom has nothing whatsoever to do with piracy: it is an attempt to play Big Brother and a clear infringment of a number of basic human rights.
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:51 AM   #7
Aberforth
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Default Securom on Games

Quote:
Originally posted by: nosfe
Quote:
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Nothing you do will make them change their minds- copy protection existed several years ago and will continue to exist, just stop pirating the software- to do that you need to educate people, definitely not like this.
you do realize that those dirty pirates are actually very smart and have figures out how to crack securom protection (very fast) so while legitimate users whine about installation limits those using pirated versions will say "what's that?"
They aren't very smart, windows architecture is virtually open and quite dumb, memory isn't encrypted- it's like finding diamonds in a coal mine. I write biometric code protection for federal agencies, it's quite difficult to crack I must say - no debugger can even sniff my code headers.
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:57 AM   #8
Red Irish
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Default Securom on Games

Here's a novel idea: if companies knocked a third of the price off their games I believe they would witness higher sales, more profit, less piracy and, most importantly, happier customers.
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Old 03-06-2009, 07:58 AM   #9
nosfe
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Default Securom on Games

famous last words?
The thing is, there hasn't been any protection on the market that hasn't been cracked, including starforce. The thing is, securom gets cracked in under a day, the day a game hits retail so do the pirated versions hit the torrents so what's the point of securom? aside from stopping casual piracy and the sale of used games there's no point to it, but is it really worth it? Ubisoft started experimenting with releasing games without copy protection and so far it's working just fine for them(the second expansion of heroes5 and more recently the new Prince of Persia)
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Old 03-06-2009, 08:17 AM   #10
Red Irish
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Default Securom on Games

Quote:
Originally posted by: nosfe
famous last words?
The thing is, there hasn't been any protection on the market that hasn't been cracked, including starforce. The thing is, securom gets cracked in under a day, the day a game hits retail so do the pirated versions hit the torrents so what's the point of securom? aside from stopping casual piracy and the sale of used games there's no point to it, but is it really worth it? Ubisoft started experimenting with releasing games without copy protection and so far it's working just fine for them(the second expansion of heroes5 and more recently the new Prince of Persia)
The companies are aware that Securom is ineffective in terms of combatting piracy. Therefore, the continued use of Securom must entail other objectives. Moreover, when we begin to discuss piracy I feel that we are moving away from the real issue and playing into their hands.
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Old 03-06-2009, 11:13 AM   #11
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Default Securom on Games

You just don't know how Securom really works
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:31 PM   #12
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Default Securom on Games

Quote:
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Quote:
Originally posted by: Red Irish
I am not pirating the software, or advocating that others do so. Securom does not combat piracy and the so-called "copy protection" you refer to appears to affect legitimate customers far more than pirates. What do you suggest?
I suggest liberal copy protection schemes like deactivation, revoke tools or removal of protection wrappers after some time via software update.
Um. You can revoke/deactivate SecuROM installs, depending on publisher/implementation.
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Here's a novel idea: if companies knocked a third of the price off their games I believe they would witness higher sales, more profit, less piracy and, most importantly, happier customers.
You could've cut out all the FUD and misinformation in your OP by clearly stating this agenda instead.
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Old 03-06-2009, 12:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Quote:
Originally posted by: nosfe
famous last words?
The thing is, there hasn't been any protection on the market that hasn't been cracked, including starforce. The thing is, securom gets cracked in under a day, the day a game hits retail so do the pirated versions hit the torrents so what's the point of securom? aside from stopping casual piracy and the sale of used games there's no point to it, but is it really worth it? Ubisoft started experimenting with releasing games without copy protection and so far it's working just fine for them(the second expansion of heroes5 and more recently the new Prince of Persia)
The companies are aware that Securom is ineffective in terms of combatting piracy. Therefore, the continued use of Securom must entail other objectives. Moreover, when we begin to discuss piracy I feel that we are moving away from the real issue and playing into their hands.
Bingo. But what could it be?

It has been suggested many times before that publishers are trying to weed out pc gaming using this tactic. The reason would have to be to save money. (you have to support thousands of different hardware combinations and face it, pc gamers want more out of their games than console gamers) For instance, we want to mod games, we want more open endedness and non-linear storylines. A pc game usually needs patched over several years as well. Why is this?

But how does that make sense? Why wouldn't they just stop making games for pc instead of continuing to spend money to 'convert' pc gamers to console to later save money?

I have read before that most retailers won't put pc games on their shelves without some type of copy protection on it. Could this be the case? Maybe they are just trying to satisfy retailers?

I think their best choice would be to try eliminating the first 'rush' of downloads when the game is first released. (Brand new game, everybody wants it, it's $50... download!) Perhaps a 1 month 3x install limit that automatically removes itself after that month is up would solve most of the problem? (instead of the permanent install limit they are providing now)
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:14 PM   #15
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Well, in my principled stance against intrusive DRM, I can safely say that I only own ONE game on that list, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, and that's only b/c it came with my 8800GTS 640. I actively peruse lists of games with intrusive DRM and don't purchase them. It's pretty easy for me, since a lot of the games the general public likes, and thus games likely to be pirated and likely to have DRM, I think are utter crap.
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Old 03-06-2009, 01:18 PM   #16
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Good post, OP. I had problems with Securom with Star Wars: Empire At War and Star Wars: Empire At War: Forces of Corruption, and it took me a week's worth of back and forth emails with their tech support to get a working game. I am never buying Securom again. I may miss out on some great games, but it's worth it to me to not support malware and crappy customer service.

Anyway, I think most DRM these days is just to kill the secondary market, not to stop piracy. Look at Steam. Didn't they once promise that they'd work on a way to let you sell your used games? Now they don't talk about it anymore.
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Old 03-09-2009, 03:52 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by: chizow
Quote:
Originally posted by: Red Irish
Here's a novel idea: if companies knocked a third of the price off their games I believe they would witness higher sales, more profit, less piracy and, most importantly, happier customers.
You could've cut out all the FUD and misinformation in your OP by clearly stating this agenda instead.
Misinformation? Can you give an example of that? I can accept FUD, but I would state the following:

My only agenda is to make people aware of Securom, attempt to moblize people against this abuse and urge companies to release cheaper games. What's your agenda?
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:13 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Quote:
Originally posted by: nosfe
Quote:
Originally posted by: Aberforth
Nothing you do will make them change their minds- copy protection existed several years ago and will continue to exist, just stop pirating the software- to do that you need to educate people, definitely not like this.
you do realize that those dirty pirates are actually very smart and have figures out how to crack securom protection (very fast) so while legitimate users whine about installation limits those using pirated versions will say "what's that?"
They aren't very smart, windows architecture is virtually open and quite dumb, memory isn't encrypted- it's like finding diamonds in a coal mine. I write biometric code protection for federal agencies, it's quite difficult to crack I must say - no debugger can even sniff my code headers.
You've never gone up against organized piracy. Non-Windows systems have been readily cracked in the name of piracy as well (blue-ray and game consoles at the least).
Of course, everything before the Xbox might not even qualify as having an OS, and the Xbox and Xbox 360 are microsoft products...
Well, there's PS3, has that been cracked yet?

BTW, anti-piracy stuff is effective at stopping the game from being leaked prior to release. A lot of people just want games as soon as possible, regardless of cost or not. (part of the reason digital distribution will eventually win out over brick and mortar) If a game isn't cracked until 2 weeks after release, that probably helps sales a lot.
Then again, Bethesda's games have had crap in the way of copy protection and sell quite well anyway
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Old 03-09-2009, 07:30 AM   #19
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the ps3 has kinda been off limits to pirates but not because of the copy protection but because it just costs too much and pirates aren't known to buy expensive stuff like a PS3 AND a blu-ray burner. Also, copy protection doesn't help against leaks and it doesn't prevent pirated games from coming out on the games release date as any copy protection the games might have gets cracked in under a day
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:09 AM   #20
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I've stated before that copy protection is NOT MEANT TO COMBAT ORGANIZED PIRACY. Those people are going to steal the game anyway. Those people are going to encourage others to steal the game regardless of what the publishers do. There's no way around that, and the publishers know this.

Copy protection is meant to discourage CASUAL piracy. The kid who gets a game for Christmas and makes copies for all his friends to play. Publishers want all those kids' parents to buy the game too, and by all rights, they should. Hence: copy protection. The same is true for every other piece of software that requires activation. Microsoft, Adobe, etc, all require activation to keep casual pirates for indiscriminately distributing the latest "cool app" to all their friends. People who are going to steal a program or game are going to do it regardless of what the developer does to try to stop them.
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:16 AM   #21
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funny that you mention Adobe. Here's an idea, those in developing countries or in third world countries don't have the money for adobe software or for training to learn said software but here comes piracy "to the rescue". The thing is, they learn to use the program, get a job using those skills and then there's a good chance that they'll buy the software using the salary obtained through piracy. This is one of the ideas used by those that like piracy for whatever reason. I don't know if I'm gonna buy it 100% but it is an interesting idea
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Old 03-09-2009, 09:44 AM   #22
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This post is designed to increase awareness of Securom and denounce the practice of using Securom on games. It is not an apology for piracy. We need to be careful here, criticising Securom is not the same thing as advocating piracy, as apologists of Securom are all too eager to have us believe. The companies are using the excuse of piracy to ship Securom with their games. They are aware that Securom, or indeed any other form of copy protection, is ineffective, or effective only to the extent that it may reduce casual piracy, as has been stated above. However, Securom is not their only option and given that they insist on using Securom in the face of harsh criticism from the gaming community, it seems that they are using piracy as a pretext to follow their own agenda. By forcing Securom upon us they are, at the very least, guilty of blatantly ignoring the wishes of a large section of their clients. Put simply, games should install software related to the game and no other software. At the very least, the EULA should include a statement relating to any third-party software that will be installed along with the game thereby allowing us to choose whether or not we wish to install this software. The companies know that Securom is unpopular, but rather than abandon the use of this malware, they are trying to convince us that its not as bad as it seems. The question is, should we believe them?
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:09 AM   #23
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Red Irish, Securom is not in and of itself a bad thing. In fact, the very practices of people like you have inspired developers to look for ways of curbing casual piracy. If the problem didn't exist, perceived or otherwise, Securom wouldn't exist. It's as simple as that.

You would not begrudge a furniture craftsman the money he spent building a chair, so why do you complain when game publishers work to protect their work?
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:12 AM   #24
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i really don't get why people think that those that don't like copy protection are pirates. I mean, why would someone who doesn't even deal with copy protection bother to complain about it? It's not them that actually crack the games and those that do consider stronger copy protection schemes as a challenge, the harder it is to crack the more they like it
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Old 03-09-2009, 10:16 AM   #25
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Anything that installs on my system without my knowledge is, in and of itself, a bad thing. The fact that Securom may conflict with legally purchased software/hardware on my system only exacerbates the issue. Moreover, Securom remains on my system even when the game is uninstalled. Why?

When you say the "very practices of people like you", what practices are you referring to? Other than posting here, I am not aware that I have engaged or stated that I am engaged in any practices.

Securom does not protect their work, it just ruins the day of not a few paying customers.
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