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Old 09-17-2013, 07:53 PM   #26
frozentundra123456
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Actually it shows as "no longer available" as well as out of stock, whatever that means.

Looks nice for the price, but I would prefer a smaller formfactor, something like an 11.6 inch for portability.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:23 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstercameron View Post
the performance seems similar to the i3-3217u
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekb...baseline=65994
Ahh... NO.

i3 dominates in singlethread performance. Nearly 60% advantage. i3 ahead in singlethread integer performance, slightly behind in multicore, FP advantage for the i3, i3 dominates memory performance. Main reason why kabini comes out so close is the lead in AES.

But for a netbook/subnotebook device the 60% singlethread advantage is hard to stand against.

Its a nice CPU, perfect for a cheap netbook but the i3 has much better CPU performance (singlethread) and similar GPU performance.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:27 PM   #28
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I think, actually, this is a pretty nice product for the price. I don't know what dell charges for i3 or i5 models, though. With regard to to the i3, since i'm guessing the 5200 is a quad core part maybe that balances things out a bit - the i3 is a dual. It wouldn't help in games most likely, but I don't buy portables to game on really. I could see this thing having it's niche even though I wouldn't buy it - I prefer high end ultrabooks/macbooks.

Last edited by blackened23; 09-17-2013 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozentundra123456 View Post
Actually it shows as "no longer available" as well as out of stock, whatever that means.

Looks nice for the price, but I would prefer a smaller formfactor, something like an 11.6 inch for portability.
Personally, I would prefer 13.3 inch (11.6 is a bit too small IMO) but I agree that it's a nice laptop with very good price.

I do not understand why Best Buy can't get next batch of it (if it selling well)?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Enigmoid View Post
Its a nice CPU, perfect for a cheap netbook but the i3 has much better CPU performance (singlethread) and similar GPU performance.
If Kabini could have dual MC like Ivy Bridge, most probably HD 8400 end up faster than HD 4000.
In terms of single thread performance, yes, IB is more than significantly better, especially with similar clock.

Last edited by rainy; 09-17-2013 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:38 AM   #30
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We have here Lenovo G505 59376837 with AMD A4 5000 1.5GHz (QuadCore, TDP 15 W) + AMD Radeon HD 8570M 1GB DDR3 dGPU:
384 SPs
ROPs/TMUs 8/24
6 CUs
28nm GCN

vs. (your)

AMD Radeon HD 8400 iGPU (AMD A6-5200 2.0GHz)
128 SPs
ROPs/TMUs 4/8
2 CUs
28nm GCN
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:02 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozentundra123456 View Post
Actually it shows as "no longer available" as well as out of stock, whatever that means.

Looks nice for the price, but I would prefer a smaller formfactor, something like an 11.6 inch for portability.
Price is low, but so is CPU performance, in fact, it's slower than a 2006 Conroe in ST workloads (the CPU performance can challenge a Conroe @ 2.9 Ghz, but only in MT workloads). Sorry, but two faster cores are always better than 4 slower ones. You get what you pay for, I would avoid this.

Unless, you must use those newer instructions at a bargain price (e.g. you program a lot). I would not, however, exchange those for lower legacy code performance (SSE/SSE2/SSE3), which is about 90% of apps we still use today, and that's unlikely to change in the near future, partially because Intel doesn't make them as standard features for their lower end parts, and partially because not 100% of code can take advantage of them (e.g. you have to have good skills to begin with). Niche cases yes, world wide spread? Not yet. So no point to buy this low-end part in the first place today. Put money on deposit, and come back later (if it burns your pocket).

Last edited by Magic Carpet; 09-19-2013 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:35 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Magic Carpet View Post
Price is low, but so is CPU performance, in fact, it's slower than a 2006 Conroe in ST workloads (the CPU performance can challenge a Conroe @ 2.9 Ghz, but only in MT workloads). Sorry, but two faster cores are always better than 4 slower ones. You get what you pay for, I would avoid this.

Unless, you must use those newer instructions at a bargain price (e.g. you program a lot). I would not, however, exchange those for lower legacy code performance (SSE/SSE2/SSE3), which is about 90% of apps we still use today, and that's unlikely to change in the near future, partially because Intel doesn't make them as standard features for their lower end parts, and partially because not 100% of code can take advantage of them (e.g. you have to have good skills to begin with). Niche cases yes, world wide spread? Not yet. So no point to buy this low-end part in the first place today. Put money on deposit, and come back later (if it burns your pocket).
Well, that is partly why I would only buy it in a small form factor like an 11.6 in for very light usage. I work in a research environment at a university, and travel between several different labs on two adjacent campuses. I bought a tablet for browsing and e-mail usage in this environment, but it is basically worthless because the wi-fi cannot connect half the time and when it does it is painfully slow and very hard to use with the 7inch screen and no keyboard or mouse. So a small laptop/netbook would be perfect for this scenario.

If I were getting a 14 or 15 inch true laptop I would for sure want better cpu performance. I would also wait to see what the next gen atom brings to the table in terms of performance and battery life compared to this. My feeling is that atom will have similar cpu performance, good enough graphics, and better battery life. In that case it would come down to price.
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Old 09-19-2013, 09:33 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Carpet View Post
Price is low, but so is CPU performance, in fact, it's slower than a 2006 Conroe in ST workloads (the CPU performance can challenge a Conroe @ 2.9 Ghz, but only in MT workloads). Sorry, but two faster cores are always better than 4 slower ones. You get what you pay for, I would avoid this.

Unless, you must use those newer instructions at a bargain price (e.g. you program a lot). I would not, however, exchange those for lower legacy code performance (SSE/SSE2/SSE3), which is about 90% of apps we still use today, and that's unlikely to change in the near future, partially because Intel doesn't make them as standard features for their lower end parts, and partially because not 100% of code can take advantage of them (e.g. you have to have good skills to begin with). Niche cases yes, world wide spread? Not yet. So no point to buy this low-end part in the first place today. Put money on deposit, and come back later (if it burns your pocket).
so a near 1Ghz higer clock, much great power consumption, less graphics performance makes a great comparison with a ulv cpu? just priceless.

the i3-3217u scores 0.72 single and 1.81 multi
the a6-5200 scores 0.50 single and 1.90 multi

yes, it is slower in single threaded workloads[though not by much], but it probably has a similar power draw with better gpu performance.

also how is competing with desktop parts a bad thing?
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/d...aded,2407.html
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Carpet View Post
Price is low, but so is CPU performance, in fact, it's slower than a 2006 Conroe in ST workloads (the CPU performance can challenge a Conroe @ 2.9 Ghz, but only in MT workloads). Sorry, but two faster cores are always better than 4 slower ones. You get what you pay for, I would avoid this.
Honestly, I can't understand your complaining - Kabini is a mobile low-end chip equipped with a quite strong iGPU.
According to PassMark results, Core2 Duo E6400 (2,13 GHz) is slightly faster in singlethread (824 vs 786) and much slower in multithread (1279 vs 2435) than A6-5200.
Unfortunately, we can't compare GPU performance.
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...2.13GHz&id=939
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...00+APU&id=1975

Btw, if you want significant higher ST performace (and also much faster iGPU), you have A10-5750M or similar class APU.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:08 PM   #35
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Love the ST perf evangelists, they always up for some good ol' threadcrapping.

By the way, would you be so kind to do tests with League of Legends? Pretty much the only game i would play on a laptop these days.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:46 PM   #36
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AMD found a good niche. Too cheap for Haswell to compete in price, too high power for Bay Trail to compete in performance. For $300 you'd be hard pressed to find a better performing laptop.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:19 PM   #37
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I dont have way to measure that, is there a cheap killawatt-esque device I can purchase?
What about dx.com ?
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:29 PM   #38
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I have this exact laptop. I wanted something dirt cheap and it was the best option at the time.

It was a little sluggish at first, but I swapped in an Intel SSD instead of the spindle hard drive and it is amazingly fast. Running Windows 8.1 on it working perfectly, though I had to work a little bit to get the proper drivers.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:30 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by monstercameron View Post

the i3-3217u scores 0.72 single and 1.81 multi
the a6-5200 scores 0.50 single and 1.90 multi

yes, it is slower in single threaded workloads[though not by much], but it probably has a similar power draw with better gpu performance.
50 to 72 is a big difference, the MT performance difference is much smaller.

about the GPU, on the gaming tests comparing ulv HD 4000 with dual channel vs kabini IGP the HD 4000 was always doing well, the clock increase should put both closer but...

the ULV IB i3 looks like a superior CPU/GPU in general... it would be up to price and power usage (battery life actually)
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:20 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magic Carpet View Post
Price is low, but so is CPU performance, in fact, it's slower than a 2006 Conroe in ST workloads (the CPU performance can challenge a Conroe @ 2.9 Ghz, but only in MT workloads). Sorry, but two faster cores are always better than 4 slower ones. You get what you pay for, I would avoid this.

Unless, you must use those newer instructions at a bargain price (e.g. you program a lot). I would not, however, exchange those for lower legacy code performance (SSE/SSE2/SSE3), which is about 90% of apps we still use today, and that's unlikely to change in the near future, partially because Intel doesn't make them as standard features for their lower end parts, and partially because not 100% of code can take advantage of them (e.g. you have to have good skills to begin with). Niche cases yes, world wide spread? Not yet. So no point to buy this low-end part in the first place today. Put money on deposit, and come back later (if it burns your pocket).
At this price point it's mainly competing against things like the Celeron 1007U and Pentiums.
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Old 09-19-2013, 05:48 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by PPB View Post
Love the ST perf evangelists, they always up for some good ol' threadcrapping.

By the way, would you be so kind to do tests with League of Legends? Pretty much the only game i would play on a laptop these days.
Wow, a new definition of "thread crapping": anyone who cares about single threaded performance.

Guess I learn something new every day.
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:11 PM   #42
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Point of my post >>>> that way. No problem tho, not like I expected you to understand it.


Leaving the trolls aside for a moment, did you happen to play with the bios/uefi of that thing? Always pondered about OC/UV capabilities of the cat line of chips.
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by monstercameron View Post
so a near 1Ghz higer clock, much great power consumption, less graphics performance makes a great comparison with a ulv cpu? just priceless.

the i3-3217u scores 0.72 single and 1.81 multi
the a6-5200 scores 0.50 single and 1.90 multi

yes, it is slower in single threaded workloads[though not by much], but it probably has a similar power draw with better gpu performance.
Actually no.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ew,3518-7.html

I dont think the 5200 will be much diferent.

For the 123480th time, Kabini is CPU and memory limited, mainly memory on Quads. But is true about power.

But ill like to see how the Celeron 2955U performs in comparison, specially on single channel, i see the 2955U more as a direct competition to Kabini.

Last edited by Shivansps; 09-19-2013 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:26 PM   #44
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Single channel memory is definitely holding it back. But I can see why they didn't include dual channel. At its price point the odds of an OEM putting 2 RAM sticks in a device are small.
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:29 PM   #45
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Single channel memory is definitely holding it back. But I can see why they didn't include dual channel. At its price point the odds of an OEM putting 2 RAM sticks in a device are small.
Thats a excuse, I had dual channel memory on my MSI U230 with AMD Neo x2 L335+780G, most devices with Neo procesors had dual channel and that was a 3 chip solution!
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:34 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Chiropteran View Post
I have this exact laptop. I wanted something dirt cheap and it was the best option at the time.

It was a little sluggish at first, but I swapped in an Intel SSD instead of the spindle hard drive and it is amazingly fast. Running Windows 8.1 on it working perfectly, though I had to work a little bit to get the proper drivers.
Maybe you could make some additional tests?
It's not possible for monstercameron (at least for now) because he's not owner of that laptop.

Btw, what drivers you're using for it?
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:38 PM   #47
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MSI actually shows more care in their designs than a lot of the large OEMs. I'd have liked to see dual channel in the A4-5000 and A6-5200 but it was a pretty safe area for AMD to cut some costs.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:27 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Shivansps View Post
Actually no.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ew,3518-7.html

I dont think the 5200 will be much diferent.

For the 123480th time, Kabini is CPU and memory limited, mainly memory on Quads. But is true about power.

But ill like to see how the Celeron 2955U performs in comparison, specially on single channel, i see the 2955U more as a direct competition to Kabini.
maybe I overstated the gpu capabilities but as soon as I can I will post more results.
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Old 09-20-2013, 03:46 AM   #49
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Still, for competition like the I3-I5 Haswell-U parts, the only way it can compete there is price, offering a % of the performance at a cheaper price, and maybe, maybe with more battery, there is just no way it can catch a I3 Haswell-U in neither cpu or gpu.

BUT, Celerons-U are a diferent thing, is likely that a 5000/5200 to be faster in CPU than a 2955U/2980U and end up similar on GPU, thats one hell of a fight ill like to see benchmarks taking everything intro consideration.

Last edited by Shivansps; 09-20-2013 at 03:53 AM.
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Old 09-20-2013, 11:56 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainy View Post
Maybe you could make some additional tests?
Such as? I don't want to mess up the current install, I'd consider any benchmark I can easily run under win 8.1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainy View Post
Btw, what drivers you're using for it?
Windows 8.1 detected almost everything. I just had to install the AMD Catalyst beta for Windows 8.1 driver, a card reader driver, and lenovo power management app/driver. The issue I ran into was that windows wouldn't reboot after installing the catalyst driver at first. I found out it's something with the AMD sata driver, it might only have been a problem because I switched to an SSD. In any case I unchecked the sata driver and all is well, the windows detected default sata driver works fine.

I was curious about trying the new 13.9 drivers, but the laptop installer doesn't work for the G505, or maybe it just doesn't work on Windows 8.1, either way it doesn't work for me.
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