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Old 07-24-2013, 11:43 AM   #1
glenn1
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Default WTFBBQ? Bankrupt Detroit going ahead with $100M+ light rail and getting Fed $ for it

Why in the flying fvck is Detroit being allowed to proceed with building a boondoggle like this when they can't even afford to pay police, answer 911 calls, or pay its current creditors for office supplies much less retirees? And Obama kicking in millions to help?

Whoever decided to greenlight this deserves a swift kick in the nuts, and if the Emergency City Manager doesn't shitcan this instantly then I think the Bankruptcy judge ought to refuse their filing and let the bondholders repossess any and all city assets.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/toyota/2...it-on-the-way/
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Old 07-24-2013, 11:50 AM   #2
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Take all of the unemployed in Detroit and give them jobs patrolling our borders....
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:10 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by glenn1 View Post
Why in the flying fvck is Detroit being allowed to proceed with building a boondoggle like this when they can't even afford to pay police, answer 911 calls, or pay its current creditors for office supplies much less retirees? And Obama kicking in millions to help?

Whoever decided to greenlight this deserves a swift kick in the nuts, and if the Emergency City Manager doesn't shitcan this instantly then I think the Bankruptcy judge ought to refuse their filing and let the bondholders repossess any and all city assets.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/toyota/2...it-on-the-way/

Did you read the article?

All told, private businesses, nonprofits and local government entities committed $100 million to the project.

From this source: http://www.governing.com/blogs/view/...g-forward.html

Quote:
Local businesses like Quicken Loans, Penske, Compuware, Chevrolet, Chrysler, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Michigan, the Detroit Medical Center and the Henry Ford Health System have each pledged $3 million. The Ford Foundation and the W.K. Kellogg Foundation have each pledged $3 million, and the Kresge Foundation has pledged $35.1 million.

The city's $9 million contribution towards the undertaking comes via the Downtown Development Authority, which has a separate revenue stream from the rest of the city government, and Fleisher doesn't expect the rail line to be threatened by dire circumstances affecting the rest of the city.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:17 PM   #4
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3.3 miles of rail. What a frickin joke.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:30 PM   #5
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Did you read the article?

All told, private businesses, nonprofits and local government entities committed $100 million to the project.

From this source: http://www.governing.com/blogs/view/...g-forward.html
From the same article:

Quote:
One thing the Detroit streetcar doesn't do is introduce transit service to an underserved area. Indeed, Woodward is a busy corridor, and at least four bus routes serve the same area that's getting a streetcar. That's caused some grumbling that the service is redundant, and money could be better spent connecting parts of the city that aren't well-connected.

But rail advocates in Detroit and across the country argue that light rail and streetcars are generally more attractive to riders than buses, and thus get more passengers. Importantly, rail is also generally seen as a tool to promote development, since permanent tracks in the ground are seen as an indicator of a strong commitment to transit in an area.
So it's basically spending $100MM plus to do a job already being done by a handful of buses at 1/1,000th the cost. And completely unable to shift routes due to demand like a bus provides.
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Old 07-24-2013, 12:51 PM   #6
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From the same article:



So it's basically spending $100MM plus to do a job already being done by a handful of buses at 1/1,000th the cost. And completely unable to shift routes due to demand like a bus provides.
First of all the article states that it is a $137 million infrastructure project, not 500 million. It is expected to bring in $500 mill of economic development. And it costs the city 9 million dollars.
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:22 PM   #7
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First of all the article states that it is a $137 million infrastructure project, not 500 million. It is expected to bring in $500 mill of economic development. And it costs the city 9 million dollars.
So where is this $9 million dollars going to come from? Is that $500 million of economic development going to help the people whose pension benefits and the bond holders who will get shafted by the bankruptcy?
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:41 PM   #8
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Take all of the unemployed in Detroit and give them jobs patrolling our borders....

That means they have to work and earn their money? You are sooooo rrrrrrrraaaaaaaacccccccciiiiiiissssssssttttt!!!!!!


<sarcastic>

Back to topic, I don't know if people even know the word "priority" means anymore. <shaking head>
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:56 PM   #9
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Old 07-24-2013, 01:58 PM   #10
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Take all of the unemployed in Detroit and give them jobs patrolling our borders....
If it's all of them, just have them stand side by side and lock arms, that should cover the entire border.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:01 PM   #11
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Oh, the rage.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:05 PM   #12
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If it's all of them, just have them stand side by side and lock arms, that should cover the entire border.
That will work fine until some mexican rolls one of these past the line:

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Old 07-24-2013, 02:08 PM   #13
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That will work fine until some mexican rolls one of these past the line:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mC5P234Fs8s
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:44 PM   #14
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So where is this $9 million dollars going to come from? Is that $500 million of economic development going to help the people whose pension benefits and the bond holders who will get shafted by the bankruptcy?
Bro, you're just not getting it. It's not like Detroit has a crime problem that drives away business. What they really need is light rail. The city has so much commerce and industry that the roads are gridlocked 24/7 and the buses are packed and adding more buses won't help because the gridlock prevents the buses from moving and they can't set up designated bus lanes because that would be racist because the bus driver might be white whereas the city is 90% black which means the white drivers get special lanes that black people can't use, just like those drinking fountains from the 1950s that were for whites only.

If the feds really want to help, they should help demolish abandoned buildings. Abandoned buildings are generally bad because they often turn into meth shacks or criminal hangouts.
(study about abandoned buildings vs crime)
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publicatio...aspx?id=145937
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For case blocks, all vacant houses on the block were inspected for security and evidence of illegal uses. The study found that 41 percent of abandoned buildings could be entered without use of force. Of these open buildings, 83 percent showed evidence of illegal use by prostitutes, drug dealers, property criminals, and others. Crime rates on blocks with open abandoned buildings were twice as high as on matched blocks without open buildings. Even if 90 percent of the crimes prevented are displaced to the surrounding area, the securing of abandoned buildings is apparently a cost- effective crime-control tactic for distressed neighborhoods.
Funding police is great, but this helps too. Abandoned buildings need to be destroyed.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:51 PM   #15
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Bro, you're just not getting it. It's not like Detroit has a crime problem that drives away business. What they really need is light rail. The city has so much commerce and industry that the roads are gridlocked 24/7 and the buses are packed and adding more buses won't help because the gridlock prevents the buses from moving and they can't set up designated bus lanes because that would be racist because the bus driver might be white whereas the city is 90% black which means the white drivers get special lanes that black people can't use, just like those drinking fountains from the 1950s that were for whites only.

If the feds really want to help, they should help demolish abandoned buildings. Abandoned buildings are generally bad because they often turn into meth shacks or criminal hangouts.
(study about abandoned buildings vs crime)
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publicatio...aspx?id=145937


Funding police is great, but this helps too. Abandoned buildings need to be destroyed.
1. The poor of Detroit generally can't afford cars. Light rail and bus transportation is what gets them to and from their jobs. In some cases those buses travel to outlieing suburbs where many of them work.

2. The feds have approved $100,000,000 for Detroit to help tear down buildings. Of course, with 40,000 buildings to tear down, it's going to take decades to do the job.
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:52 PM   #16
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So where is this $9 million dollars going to come from? Is that $500 million of economic development going to help the people whose pension benefits and the bond holders who will get shafted by the bankruptcy?
Please go read where the $9 million isn't coming from the city revenue stream.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:05 PM   #17
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1. The poor of Detroit generally can't afford cars. Light rail and bus transportation is what gets them to and from their jobs. In some cases those buses travel to outlieing suburbs where many of them work.
I can't remember which documentary it was, but one of the ones I saw about Detroit included a part where bus service was severely cut due to budget problems. Detroit has money for trains but it can't even keep buses running? Keep in mind that people use buses to connect to the train. Every day for work, I take a bus to the train station then I take the train downtown. Without a proper bus sytem, I can't take the train. Does Detroit expect people to walk through dangerous parts of town to get to the train station?

Quote:
2. The feds have approved $100,000,000 for Detroit to help tear down buildings. Of course, with 40,000 buildings to tear down, it's going to take decades to do the job.
Doing a proper job of demolition + cleanup might take decades. I'm thinking they should just knock things down so you can't go inside them. Just get one of those big wrecking balls. A couple good swings should knock the house down. Next house. Smash. Next house. Smash. The big piles of rubble would be ugly, but at least criminals can't use the rubble piles for anything.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:24 PM   #18
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3.3 miles of rail. What a frickin joke.
And if its successful, they will expand it. The goal here is to bring people from the outlying communities into Downtown which equals $$$. If people had an easier time getting downtown without paying $12 to park, that would be great. 3.3 miles isn't that far to start, but thats just the tip of the iceberg. It will get bigger.

They have already been working on tearing down abandoned projects and dilapidated houses in order to build much nicer family homes. My mom grew up in a project called "The Herman Gardens" and it has been closed for a few decades. Its was a HUGE swath of land that Kwame and his goons refused to demolish. Now, its gone and there are beautiful homes there.

This is all part of an initiative to push poorer people away from the Downtown area (not actually downtown...but in the vicinity) in into a more isolated (and controllable, I guess) area.

There are also some amazing places downtown but parking down there is so scarce and the parking authority will ticket you faster than you can snap your fingers if you decide to try and park somewhere you aren't supposed to.

Now that Whole Foods is open, Detroit is seeing an increase in traffic into the city, but even the Whole Foods lot is packed and people can't park.

If Detroit wants to come back, Downtown is definitely where its going to happen. Its definitely happening.

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I can't remember which documentary it was, but one of the ones I saw about Detroit included a part where bus service was severely cut due to budget problems. Detroit has money for trains but it can't even keep buses running? Keep in mind that people use buses to connect to the train. Every day for work, I take a bus to the train station then I take the train downtown. Without a proper bus sytem, I can't take the train. Does Detroit expect people to walk through dangerous parts of town to get to the train station?
Yes, some bus routes were cut from Detroit's bus system due to lack of funds. I don't know if I would use the word "severely" because they still have many routes that run. They either cut out routes that didn't have as many passengers or they reduced those routes. Detroit is not that big of a city, so do not think of New York or DC when talking about how people are going to get to the new trains. There are still buses that will take you Downtown and to all the major areas in Detroit. I don't think the goal with the rail is to pick up Detroiters....I believe the goal is to pick up people who don't live in Detroit.

For a long time, people complained about not having an easier way to get to the Downtown areas. Here is the solution. Its only a 3.3 mile ride, I doubt they are going to have many stops inside the city. If they do, there are plenty of areas to put these places.

I am not sure what you mean by people having to walk through "dangerous" areas to get on the train. I'm sure the TV told you that everywhere in Detroit is dangerous. Common sense would tell you that these places would be in much nicer areas that have the space. I can think of a few areas off the top of my head that they could put these stations. Again, they don't need that many stops for a 3 mile trip.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:29 PM   #19
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The only way that Detroit can meet it's obligations & become a vibrant city once again is through employment & redevelopment. Light rail is part of that.

Righties just want somebody to kick while they're down, so having Detroit stand back up would be a major blow to their Mayberry egos. It doesn't hurt their feelings one bit that Detroit has a large black population, and kicking them always feels good judging from some of the empty racist "contributions" to this thread.

They just don't seem to have the enthusiasm for beating down the dying small towns of White America- you know, the ones with no jobs, no services, no opportunities- just old people living on SS, Medicare, disability & food stamps.

Funny how that works.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:35 PM   #20
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oh yes that 130 + million dollars spent on 3 miles of track sure is going to turn Detroit around.

yup. 3 miles of light rail. That's the missing piece.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:44 PM   #21
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oh yes that 130 + million dollars spent on 3 miles of track sure is going to turn Detroit around.

yup. 3 miles of light rail. That's the missing piece.
It's a start in the right direction, particularly given the support from the business community.

Funny how Righties can try to bite their own leg off when they object to something that business endorses- you know, those adorable Capitalists. I mean, Business is always right, except when they try to lift up somebody you're trying to keep down.

What does it mean, Mr Wizard?

It means what my previous post says it means, and posts like the one I quoted here just reinforce that.

Congratulations, Michal, on showing us just what blind partisan bullshit can do to a person's mind.
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Old 07-24-2013, 09:56 PM   #22
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It's a start in the right direction, particularly given the support from the business community.

Funny how Righties can try to bite their own leg off when they object to something that business endorses- you know, those adorable Capitalists. I mean, Business is always right, except when they try to lift up somebody you're trying to keep down.

What does it mean, Mr Wizard?

It means what my previous post says it means, and posts like the one I quoted here just reinforce that.

Congratulations, Michal, on showing us just what blind partisan bullshit can do to a person's mind.
whats the bet that this will fail?
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:05 PM   #23
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whats the bet that this will fail?
Heh. And that matters how, exactly?

The point is that legit attempts are being made, backed by the business community.

Apparently, you desperately want it to fail to satisfy your faith in some rather emotional & empty headed ideology.

Naysayers on the Right are always full of derision, devoid of pretty much anything else. You qualify.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:11 PM   #24
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Negative Nancys don't want to see anything positive happening in Detroit because they will have to find another city to talk shit about. Unlike some of you, there are corporations and individuals out there who have ideas on how to change things. Rather than talking about them, they are springing into action. All you folks have is your keyboard.
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Old 07-24-2013, 10:17 PM   #25
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Given the economically depressed condition of Detroit and the fact that major funding for the project is coming from elsewhere, this strikes me as a good idea.
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