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Old 04-01-2013, 09:08 PM   #1
wyssin
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Default Samsung 840 Pro's in RAID 0

Is Samsung's Magician software necessary to be able to use the Samsung 840 Pro SSDs?
What functionality exactly does the Magician software provide?

I want to set up two 840 Pro drives in RAID 0, along the lines described in Anand's article from August 2012, only using 840s instead of the 830s used in the article.

On the website I see Magician software (version 3.2 or 4.0) and Data Migration Tool (version 1.0 or 1.1), as well as a driver. I don't see any manuals online or clear descriptions of what the Magician functions are.

The Samsung website also warns that after Magician is engaged the SSD will not be recognized if it is part of a RAID array, which would seem to be a reason to NOT want to install the software in my situation.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:54 PM   #2
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What motherboard are you using? I setup my RAID 0 using the mobo's integrated bios software.
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Old 04-01-2013, 10:34 PM   #3
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I have 2 840's (non-pro) in RAID 0 and Magician does not detect them. Instead it detects an Intel array without any knowledge of it consisting of 2 Samsung SSD's. All other SSD utilities see them though. Forget about Magician. What did you want to use it for anyway?
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:16 AM   #4
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Yes Magician cant see drive in raid field,stupid DECISION FROM SAMSUNG.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit'Igor View Post
Yes Magician cant see raid,stupid.

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Are you calling the Magician software "stupid" or the OP?

I'll hold off on any other commentary until I see an explanation.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:13 AM   #6
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has anyone seen those new OP 840 pro's called the SM843 - they have drive light activity
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:43 AM   #7
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I called Samsung decision that making raid invisible in Magician stupid thing to do.I thought it was obvious.
This is something that i wrote about two months ago.
third reply from the bottom of the page,reply from Igor Novak


Edit your original post so as not to be misunderstood further.

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Old 04-02-2013, 01:18 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baked View Post
What motherboard are you using? I setup my RAID 0 using the mobo's integrated bios software.
ASRock OC Formula
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifted View Post
I have 2 840's (non-pro) in RAID 0 and Magician does not detect them. Instead it detects an Intel array without any knowledge of it consisting of 2 Samsung SSD's. All other SSD utilities see them though. Forget about Magician. What did you want to use it for anyway?
Well, I don't know whether I need Magician at all. That's part of my question. Samsung hasn't provided clear info on exactly what all Magician does so that I can make the decision easily. I haven't found any separate manual or guide for download on the website explaining what Magician does. On the CD included with the SSD, there are .exe files, which I have to assume will load/runMagician. Maybe there are help files or manuals that become available from within Magician, but that's a catch-22 -- you have to load the program to be able to see what the program does.

From what I gather reading other forums, Magician is necessary to be able to load firmware updates, which is something I DO want to be able to do though.

I have access to another computer that's running in AHCI. Should I plug the SSDs into that computer in AHCI, run Magician, install the new firmware, then put the SSDs back into my computer and run them in RAID?
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:30 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit'Igor View Post
I called Samsung decision that making raid invisible in Magician stupid thing to do.I thought it was obvious.
This is something that i wrote about two months ago.
third reply from the bottom of the page,reply from Igor Novak


Edit your original post so as not to be misunderstood further.

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That article helps! It looks like just about everything that Magician does can be done through other means. The main question I have is how to update the firmware without using Magician.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyssin View Post
That article helps! It looks like just about everything that Magician does can be done through other means. The main question I have is how to update the firmware without using Magician.
There's an ISO updater too

http://www.samsung.com/global/busine...downloads.html
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:32 PM   #12
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Watch out for all these LSI on motherboard - samsung 840 and 840 pro's are unsupported by LSI. They have removed them from their list and refuse to support them for 92xx controllers. They are however supported by the 3ware which is the same exact controller (hardware identical) with AV/mac pro/uefi support.

lame. Confirmed by many on webhostingtalk and lowendtalk - the only lsi help you will get is to buy the SM843 enterprise drives which are just 840 pro's with more OP and drive light activity and have less cache (!!) and write slower.

So far i've have one 840 pro drop after a week of service, popped it into a pc and it was 100% new and showed no smart errors in magician. Heavy load from ESXi - the replacement rebuilt and has not blipped ever since. Probably shitty firmware as LSI is the king of krappy firmware and drivers imo.

Probably why HP ditched them for PMC-Adaptec.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:40 AM   #13
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I find Magician utterly useless. It serves no point.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:57 PM   #14
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I'd like to back this thread up a bit and ask the OP why you need raid 0?

I had two gen 2 corsair ssd's in raid 0 Benchmarking about 400mb read/write and couldn't tell a difference between my vertex 3 (550mb read/write) and my vertex 4 (500mb read/write). What is it you're trying to load and run that needs to be so fast? Honestly, I don't have an 840 pro (yet) but I imagine simply running from a single drive would be fast enough. However, if you simply want raid 0 because you can... Then I understand. I'm the same way. I demand high performance.
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Old 05-28-2013, 04:12 AM   #15
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I installed magician as it's supposed to 'optimise windows' which I thought might be useful as my clean install has taken 120gb for itself, but like others here I've found that magician can't recognise the raided drives.
Looks like I'm going to have to 'optimise' windows the hard way...
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Old 05-28-2013, 06:47 AM   #16
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Perhaps it can only see and optimize a drive if AHCI is enabled and going to a raid disables it?

I have my OS on a 840 pro and use the magician software to optimize the drive and OS, it also has a nice benchmark program and a temp file cleaner I find handy.
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Old 05-30-2013, 01:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socio View Post
Perhaps it can only see and optimize a drive if AHCI is enabled and going to a raid disables it?
Something like that, certainly no AHCI for raided drives.

As to the RAID itself, maybe it's to early to say as I haven't run apps seriously yet but it is taking 3.5mins (yes that's THREE AND A HALF MINUTES) to start window 7.

This isn't as bad as it sounds as it's pretty quick once your in there's a surprising amount of other stuff you can get done in 3.5 mins
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:34 AM   #18
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I have this in raid 0 and magician does nto detect it either.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:29 AM   #19
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dont R0 unless u need the space.

Too many things are lost when you R0, like Trim, for speed you wont notice.

Now if u R0 to double your storage space... well, i have no comment about that.


But doing R0 for speed on a SSD, well... under most normal conditions u wont notice jack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unit'Igor View Post
Yes Magician cant see drive in raid field,stupid DECISION FROM SAMSUNG.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its not samsung's fault.

If you guys dont know what Raid exactly is and what it does with SSD's.. DONT RAID.

What happens is the ICH takes both SSD's and converts it into a logical drive.
Then the logical drive is mounted as a physical drive in bios.
This mount causes TRIM, and other SSD functions to NOT work, because the software would need to pass the code down though the ICH, which the ICH wont do.
And Trim on R0's on the new intel Z87 chipset has shown more problems then gains....

Sure u can see u have 2 SSD's, however u cant access them, you cant do anything, because they are locked in the logical drive config.
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Last edited by aigomorla; 08-27-2013 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 08-27-2013, 11:49 AM   #20
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What about on the x79?
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:13 PM   #21
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You can mount a SSD's on Intel SATA 3 Controller either in AHCI or RAID Mode as Set in BIOS. In a RAID Mode SSD Mount where you have HDD's in RAID Array and the SSD is NOT a Member, Samsung's Magician software will NOT recognize the SSD. Samsung's Software only responds to AHCI Mounting of their SSD's. Note that TRIM is functional on SSD's mounted in RAID Mode as long as the SSD is NOT a Member of an Array.

To check that TRIM is functioning when the SSD is mounted in RAID Mode on the Intel SATA 3 Controller, you must install the latest Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) RAID Driver for the TRIM Check Tool to recognize the SSD.

It would be interesting if TRIM does work when SSD's are Members of a RAID Array by using the TRIM Check Tool but as aigomorla points out SSD's in RAID Array loose TRIM Function.

TRIM Check Tool can be found here: http://files.thecybershadow.net/trimcheck/

Last edited by Z15CAM; 08-27-2013 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 08-29-2013, 04:09 AM   #22
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Thanks, will turn off raid when I reinstlal
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Old 08-29-2013, 11:33 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z15CAM View Post
It would be interesting if TRIM does work when SSD's are Members of a RAID Array by using the TRIM Check Tool but as aigomorla points out SSD's in RAID Array loose TRIM Function.

TRIM Check Tool can be found here: http://files.thecybershadow.net/trimcheck/
Z87 Chipset.
http://www.eteknix.com/intel-haswell...pset-detailed/

Quote:
Another nice addition is TRIM support in RAID 0 storage configurations along with Rapid Storage Technology 12 and RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 capabilities.
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Old 11-27-2013, 03:10 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by aigomorla View Post
I'm confused - you're quoting an article that says TRIM is supported in RAID, but then above you said it is not.

Do you mean it is supposed in RAID mode, but not on members OF a RAID? Or were you changing your mind?

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Old 11-27-2013, 05:05 AM   #25
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Note that TRIM is functional on SSD's mounted in RAID Mode as long as the SSD is NOT a Member of an Array.
You are wrong. The TRIM command passes the Intel 7-Series and 8-Series SATA RAID Controllers into any Intel RAID0 array, if the BIOS contains an Intel RAID ROM resp. Intel EFI RAID module v11.x.x.xxxx or higher and an Intel RAID driver v11.x.x.xxxx or higher is running. TRIM in RAID0 works even with older Intel Chipsets from 4-Series up, if the BIOS contains an especially modified Intel RAID ROM/SataDriver (look >here<).
Quote:
To check that TRIM is functioning when the SSD is mounted in RAID Mode on the Intel SATA 3 Controller, you must install the latest Intel® Rapid Storage Technology (Intel® RST) RAID Driver for the TRIM Check Tool to recognize the SSD.
The detection of the SSD by the TRIM Check Tool has nothing to do with the version of the in-use Intel RAID driver.
Quote:
It would be interesting if TRIM does work when SSD's are Members of a RAID Array by using the TRIM Check Tool but as aigomorla points out SSD's in RAID Array loose TRIM Function.
TRIM is working fine with SSDs, which are members of a RAID0 array. For details you may look >here< and >here<.
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