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Old 01-02-2013, 07:53 PM   #1
SunnyD
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Default DRM:1, Legit Consumer:2, Dev: ∞ - Yet another story. (Updated: Happy endings for all)

Update - 1/11/2013

Last update. "We're all good."

Thanks to Ben @ Runic, it looks like we've managed to resolve the issue. Well, at least in my case, most definitely it has been resolved. I've been able to successfully reactivate my original copy of Torchlight 2.

The experience itself was extremely pleasant. Myself, having a bit of a background in software development (my current position deals with software licensing ironically), it was actually fun to be involved in the process the way I was. Not a lot of companies would be willing to do it that way, but I have a feeling this is pretty much the way Runic has "grown up", and it's probably a better way to do it. The initial issues and delays were just growing pains, and I can't fault them for it. Just as I can't fault them for using a DRM scheme in the first place.

My initial post isn't worded right after rereading it. It sounded a little more condescending for Runic using DRM in the first place, which wasn't quite what I meant. Yes, it did take them a bit longer than it should have to address the issue, despite multiple community threads on it and likely multiple tickets submitted. But the tickets themselves seem to have been initially mishandled, which lead to the issue not getting the attention by the support staff as quickly as it should have (or rather why it seemed to be ignored for so long).

Long and short of it all, Runic is going out of their way to make good on fixing the issue, and they are most definitely trying to take care of their customers (they are giving out Steam keys to those that were affected in the meantime).

Growing pains. Just like any company should have. They have the pedigree, they now have two successful titles, and they plan on being around a long time. Give them the benefit of the doubt.

----------------------------

Update - 1/10/2013

I figured this would be useful for anyone stumbling into this thread thinking this is just a "pile on and bash Runic" thread, cause it's not.

#1 - after an apparent support mixup, my support ticket was finally responded to (took a while, but it was explained to me why)

#2 - Travis Baldree (one of the founders of Runic) actually registered to posted in this thread to address this issue. For what it's worth, I have little doubt that it isn't actually Travis posting there.

#3 - Ben Evans - one of the great support guys at Runic - is the one that initially started handling my ticket, and is also making his presence here in this thread. He is working with me directly to try to resolve this issue.

#4 - I can confirm at this point that they HAVE INDEED given me a Steam key for Torchlight 2 to get me back in the game while they work on fixing this issue with the non-Steam version.

---------------------------

Short and to the point. I preordered Torchlight 2 from Runic/PWI back before it came out. Got my key when it was released, installed it, it worked fine. Played it for a bit, life was good. Set it aside for a while...

Fast forward to the holidays.

Oh look, I get a brand spanking new motherboard, CPU and I'm probably on my 3rd different video card since the last time I've played Torchlight 2. Being lazy, I haven't yet "reinstalled" windows, but that's not a big deal. Anyway, my kids want to see Torchlight 2 (they're huge TL1 fans), so I fire it up. Patch, patch, download, patch, and click play:



Okay, fine. So reactivate it.

Please?

Turns out, there's no way to. It doesn't do it on it's own. Reinstalling it doesn't do it. Uninstalling it doesn't help. In fact, there's a month-old forum thread on Runic's site about this issue, and they provide a downloadable tool to remove the license attached to your system, and even THAT doesn't work.

Runic is all proud of themselves over allowing pretty much as many reactivations as you can eat... the catch is, well, good luck actually figuring out how to reactivate, cause it ain't possible.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:01 PM   #2
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One of the things that makes humans good at adapting is that we can learn from others experiences. Our parents can teach us fire burns and we don't stick our hands in the fire, we trust that they were right and it saves our skin. Even as adults we don't play with it, we can even read and learn and improve our understanding. At least that is how its meant to work.

What I do not understand is why the experiences of others and expert opinions on DRM results in people not learning this lesson. Are gamers just a bit denser than average? Sure seems that way. It seems every last one of you has to get bitten badly enough before you learn the lesson. By the time you all have we will be utterly screwed (we already are). It irks me to say the least.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:02 PM   #3
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Id crack it if I was in your position. You already own a legit copy.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:02 PM   #4
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Was this a Steam deal or directly from them?

I think I've got TL1 from one of the Indie deals but haven't even had time to install it - supposed to be DRM free, don't know about TL2.


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Old 01-02-2013, 08:06 PM   #5
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Its a pain in the neck but you can get the game re-activated. Put a ticket in with runic and they will investigate and check the IP addresses from which you played ETC and as long as it isn't fishy they will up the activations. Ie if you're playing one day in China, the next in the US, next in the EU - obviously that isn't legitimate. If they see a player with that type of pattern, that would raise red flags.

Anyway, This happens a lot with SecuROM games as well, and if you email the publisher of the game - they have the ability to increase the activation limit.

Its a pain in the neck and I generally hate securom, but if you contact the publisher (or in your case, runic) they will fix you up.

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Old 01-02-2013, 08:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderer27 View Post
Was this a Steam deal or directly from them?

I think I've got TL1 from one of the Indie deals but haven't even had time to install it - supposed to be DRM free, don't know about TL2.


.
TL1/2 have never been DRM free. It has a 10 activation limit similar to SecuROM. If you pass that (or if the game detects significant changes) you need to put a ticket in with runic and they will reactivate it for you.

It's a PITA, but it isn't the end of the world. Just contact them and they will straighten it out.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:11 PM   #7
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I'd get in touch with Runic. If they care at all about their customers, they should make it up to you somehow.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by blackened23 View Post
TL1/2 have never been DRM free. It has a 10 activation limit similar to SecuROM. If you pass that (or if the game detects significant changes) you need to put a ticket in with runic and they will reactivate it for you.

It's a PITA, but it isn't the end of the world. Just contact them and they will straighten it out.
I'll have to check, but I thought I got it in a Humble Bundle deal (could be another though), and they're always DRM free.

I also seem to have a copy of it on GOG which is definitely DRM free (probably one of the recent bundle sales).



EDIT:

Yeah, just checked - Humble Bundle #6 had Torchlight in it.




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Old 01-02-2013, 08:29 PM   #9
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I'll have to check, but I thought I got it in a Humble Bundle deal (could be another though), and they're always DRM free.

I also seem to have a copy of it on GOG which is definitely DRM free (probably one of the recent bundle sales).



EDIT:

Yeah, just checked - Humble Bundle #6 had Torchlight in it.




.
Ah, I see My mistake then, thanks for clarifying.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:39 PM   #10
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So there is at least a DRM free version, if anyone else is considering getting this game?
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:41 PM   #11
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I got Torchlight 1, and it was DRM free, but Torchlight 2 has this crap ?
No sale.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:52 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by blackened23 View Post
Its a pain in the neck but you can get the game re-activated. Put a ticket in with runic and they will investigate and check the IP addresses from which you played ETC and as long as it isn't fishy they will up the activations. Ie if you're playing one day in China, the next in the US, next in the EU - obviously that isn't legitimate. If they see a player with that type of pattern, that would raise red flags.

Anyway, This happens a lot with SecuROM games as well, and if you email the publisher of the game - they have the ability to increase the activation limit.

Its a pain in the neck and I generally hate securom, but if you contact the publisher (or in your case, runic) they will fix you up.
It's not a case of "activation limits". It's a case that their reactivation system simply doesn't work. There's a couple threads on the Runic forums about this - there simply is no way to reactivate it. No button to press, no file to delete, no uninstall/reinstall... nothing. They DO have a tool to download (which you only find out about after putting in a support ticket) which is supposed to remove whatever license file they put hide on your machine, but even that doesn't work (I've tried it, and I still get the exact same message - as do many on the forums). Runic is dumbfounded and has basically gone silent on the issue over the last couple weeks.

Trust me - this has nothing to do with activation limits/counts at all.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:06 PM   #13
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It's not a case of "activation limits". It's a case that their reactivation system simply doesn't work. There's a couple threads on the Runic forums about this - there simply is no way to reactivate it. No button to press, no file to delete, no uninstall/reinstall... nothing. They DO have a tool to download (which you only find out about after putting in a support ticket) which is supposed to remove whatever license file they put hide on your machine, but even that doesn't work (I've tried it, and I still get the exact same message - as do many on the forums). Runic is dumbfounded and has basically gone silent on the issue over the last couple weeks.

Trust me - this has nothing to do with activation limits/counts at all.
Here's the problem - you're trying to automate this completely by reinstalling the game, pressing buttons, and doing stuff on your end. If their server doesn't let you reactivate, there is nothing you can do except to contact them -- You can't automate this. You need to contact a human being to fix it. You're not doing the right things to fix the situation. Email them, open a ticket. Include a screenshot of your receipt, which is easily accessible through your steam account.

If there is a reactivation issue with games like this you have to contact the publisher or developer (which is easy enough) to reactivate the game. I've had this issue with Batman: AC, exceeded the limit due to hardware/windows reinstallations. Runic doesn't use securom but the concept is the same - contact customer service for resolution. You can't press a button or re-install anything when their activation server says you can't activate.

Again to fix this:

Contact them and they will fix it. Include a screenshot of your key / receipt from steam. Go to the button on the right of your steam window that says "username" account. Click the drop down. Go to account details. SCREENSHOT THAT, it includes records of all legitimate purchases you've made through steam or steamworks, and then screenshot your game key. Email it to runic. They will fix it. I know others who have had to do this.

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Old 01-02-2013, 11:14 PM   #14
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And i'm not defending their DRM or whatever, I think it's pretty silly and this is why I usually stick to only steamworks games. I agree with you that DRM is more of an annoyance to legitimate customers than anything else.

But...(broken record mode) they will fix it for you
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:22 PM   #15
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He already filed a ticket and their solution didn't work. He's said that multiple times in this thread.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:06 AM   #16
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he already filed a ticket and their solution didn't work. He's said that multiple times in this thread.
THEY WILL FIX IT IF HE CONTACTS THEM!!!

sheesh
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:11 AM   #17
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THEY WILL FIX IT IF HE CONTACTS THEM!!!

sheesh
He shouldn't have to. It's ridiculous.
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:15 AM   #18
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Did you activate the game on Steam yet? If it works then just download the Steam version, no? Or maybe not I donno... there has to be a way to bypass the reactivation....
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Old 01-03-2013, 12:42 AM   #19
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He already filed a ticket and their solution didn't work. He's said that multiple times in this thread.
Are you sure about that? I read his post again and from what I understand he has tried automated tools to fix the problem, and I could be wrong - but what I read is that he tried to re-install the game, use an automated tool, and browsed their forums. The key being , automation won't fix the issue -- you have to contact a human being a relic to fix the issue. This is what he mentioned:

Quote:
No button to press, no file to delete, no uninstall/reinstall... nothing. They DO have a tool to download (which you only find out about after putting in a support ticket) which is supposed to remove whatever license file they put hide on your machine, but even that doesn't work
That would suggest that only automated fixes were attempted. Apologies if I misunderstood, but I know that relic will fix the issue if you have a legitimate copy of the game. All you have to do is contact their support or email them with proof of purchase. It doesn't matter if it's your 20th activation - If you do that, they will not say no.

Again -- i'm not trying to defend their DRM. It's definitely a hassle to go through this type of thing and I can sympathize with the frustration. I had similar situations with a couple of SecuROM games (Crysis and Batman: AC) but after emailing the respective publishers with proof of purchase they upped my secuROM activation limits. I also agree with the poster above who stated he shouldn't have to do such a thing.

This is why I usually try to stick with steamworks games, you never have to deal with activation limits, secuROM, or GFWL. It sucks, hopefully developers will learn that stuff like this steers customers away.

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Old 01-03-2013, 01:05 AM   #20
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Have actually considered, I don't know, contacting them?
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:28 AM   #21
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Is this on Steam?
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:34 AM   #22
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Is this on Steam?
Yes. It's 50% off at the moment too.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:38 AM   #23
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Yes. It's 50% off at the moment too.
No, I meant this activation issue. I already own TL2, I pre-ordered that sucker before it was released.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:17 AM   #24
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Runic is known for excellent devs with great customer service. They'll absolutely help fix this issue.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:59 AM   #25
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*sigh*

Since it's apparently not plainly obvious, here's the cliffs version:

- DRM says no after hardware upgrades
- I try several self-help options to no avail
- I CONTACT SUPPORT WHICH DIRECTS ME TO TOOL WHICH DOES NOT WORK
- I (like many others) now sit patiently waiting for a now silent (dumbfounded?) support followup to the continuing issue

Most of the people that have had this issue encountered it when doing upgrades to Windows 8 (obviously idiots who didn't wipe and reinstall from scratch). Mine was due to hardware changes. The long and the short of it is whatever the case Torchlight 2's reactivation system simply doesn't work, nor does Runic's tool to fix it.

And no, mine is not the steam version, which was plainly mentioned in the second sentence of the OP. Though it wouldn't surprise me one bit given steam often doesn't forego developer DRM, but simply runs alongside it, that the steam versions would end up having the exact same problem in the long run.

That said, I'm not saying to boycott Runic, nor am I upset for them choosing to use a DRM scheme in the first place. I'm just pointing out yet another failure in the implementation and execution of DRM. After all, it could be far worse.
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