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Old 09-18-2012, 12:32 AM   #1
Artista
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Default I will say what many Americans are thinking. I am sick of hearing about radical Islam

This will not be politically correct but...

I am SO sick and tired of hearing about all the radical Muslims rioting in the streets, killing people, and doing all kinds of other inhuman/twisted/Evil stuff in the name of "God" or the "Prophet" or whatever.

The USA gets the blame for everything and yes it created some of it's own problems but really lets look at more than that.

Last time I checked it was another Muslim or Arab or at the least someone from the same country that ruled and opressed people from the same country and/or Muslim/Arab country.

All of the dictators in that region, were not US citizens or controlled by the USA. They are/were people from the same country and treated those in the country worse than anyone could imagine. Yet the uneducated and perhaps limited few radicals in the Muslim countries attack and kill the representative of the country that saved their a$$ (Libya). They cry for the "Death of America."

Regarding Muslims/Arabs repressing other Muslims and/or Arabs...

Look at the list below. (dictators, etc)


momar kadafi
saddam hussein
Dr. Bashar al-Assad
Hosni Mubarak
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
Taliban
Saudi Royal Family

The list goes on and on.

Regarding ethnic tensions: Read up on:

Alawis vs Sunni's vs Shia vs Alawis

Hell even among Muslims, there are different tribes, sects, and factions. If they do not agree with each other they all try and kill each other, in the name of religion, and wipe out the other sect, village, different ethnic branch, etc. There are even sub-types of Muslims that think the other is wrong and try and kill each other!

Many times and for many years it has been people from the same middle east country that screw over other people in the same country with the same faith, that kill, oppress, rule over etc. Yet America gets all the blame. Really?

I say we pull out every military member and/or American from every single Arab/Muslim country.

I say we NEVER give another penny to a Arab/Muslim country. (Or any other country for that matter.)

I say we NEVER spill another drop of American blood for a Muslim /anyone else who will turn around and denounce and kill the American who just fought for you.

Let me say also I know plenty of moderate Muslims and have going many years back. Good people! Let all moderates move here to the USA so they can have the life they deserve.

Let the middle east, rise, fall, and whatever without USA interference or intervention.

The bottom line is: America CANNOT fix the middle east and should never have tried.

If you are American, what do you think?

If you are Muslim, what do you think?

Neither, what do you think?

Thoughts?

(If you disagree then fine. Educate yourself then respond with a educated and mature response.)

Please read all the below and much much more, then respond with a educated response.

http://www.differencebetween.net/mis...am-and-muslim/

http://www.differencebetween.net/mis...ims-and-arabs/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawi

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisr...s-Secret-War-/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi%27a...unni_relations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

http://theopinionista.com/2011/05/03...ssing-muslims/

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.com/intra.htm
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:44 AM   #2
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Shall I feed the troll?

Nobody who is serious would put Saddam and Gaddafi in the radical islam camp, but nice try! And bad spelling!
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:46 AM   #3
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Yep, and perhaps the most twisted thing about all the violence, death, hurt feelings, rage, chanting and yelling they do is that it's all based on a religion which we know for a fact isn't true.

Just like all other religions in that regard, although these days with Christianity you can sort of admire certain traits of some of it's adherents from a distance... you can admire the cultural contributions it's had (though many have been bad ones too) the architecture of old churches... the beautiful music, especially at Christmas, etc... Christianity is definitely not true too, but once a religion calms down like that it can be romanticized and enjoyed.

Islam's falsehood seems so much more perverse and dangerous because so many die in the name of it currently.
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Old 09-18-2012, 12:51 AM   #4
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Yeah that never happened with Christianity. Nope.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:35 AM   #5
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Islam doesn't seek to advance the human condition; instead it seeks to make everything more Islamic. Its ideals conflict with those of Western civilization, and I fear we will eventually come to a place where there is no coexistence.
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Old 09-18-2012, 01:36 AM   #6
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I am so sick and tired of Radical Christians and Christianity!

I mean it's not like we didn't just have one who mowed down a whole bunch of kids in Norway, a guy who blew up a federal building in Oklahoma, a bunch of priests raping boys, a bunch of nutters who believe that god is talking to them. a bunch of crazy cross burning guys in white hats, a scout organization who is homophobic, people blowing up abortion clinics, or people who believe the earth is 6000 years old and we lived with Dinosaurs. Yeah we have a fucked up religion too. The main difference is that we don't have nearly 100% unemployment for our youth which gives them a lot more time to act all loony.
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Old 09-18-2012, 03:07 AM   #7
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No, we never heard this crap. Not like that Brevik stuff didnt just happen and more random right wing abortion bombings, gay beatings, police state crackdowns. Yeah, I am so worried about some whackjob in the desert stealing your kids hot dog at some mega mall in kansas or nascar event.

Meteorites kill people too. Shit is real man. Aren't you scared?


1420 BC Israel - Fatal meteorite impact.
588 AD China - 10 deaths; siege towers destroyed.
1321-68 China - People & animals killed; homes ruined.
1369 Ho-t'ao China - Soldier injured; fire.
02/03/1490 Shansi, China - 10,000 deaths.
09/14/1511 Cremona, Italy - Monk, birds, & sheep killed.
1633-64 Milono, Italy - Monk killed.
1639 China - Tens of deaths; 10 homes destroyed.
1647-54 Indian Ocean - 2 sailors killed aboard a ship.
07/24/1790 France - Farmer killed; home destroyed; cattle killed.
01/16/1825 Oriang, India - Man killed; woman injured.
02/27/1827 Mhow, India - Man injured.
12/11/1836 Macao, Brazil - Oxen killed; homes damaged.
07/14/1847 Braunau, Bohemia - Home struck by 371 lb meteorite.
01/23/1870 Nedagolla, India - Man stunned by meteorite.
06/30/1874 Ming Tung li, China - Cottage crushed, child killed.
01/14/1879 Newtown, Indiana, USA - Man killed in bed.
01/31/1879 Dun-Lepoelier, France - Farmer killed by meteorite.
11/19/1881 Grossliebenthal, Russia - Man injured.
03/11/1897 West Virginia, USA - Walls pierced, horse killed, man injured.
09/05/1907 Weng-li, China - Whole family crushed to death.
06/30/1908 Tunguska, Siberia - Fire, 2 people killed. (referenced throughout paper)
04/28/1927 Aba, Japan - Girl injured by meteorite.
12/08/1929 Zvezvan, Yugoslavia - Meteorite hit bridal party, 1 killed.
05/16/1946 Santa Ana, Mexico - Houses destroyed, 28 injured.
11/30/1946 Colford, UK - Telephones knocked out, boy injured.
11/28/1954 Sylacauga, Alabama, USA - 4 kg meteorite struck home, lady injured.
08/14/1992 Mbole, Uganda - 48 stones fell, roofs damaged, boy injured.

That's about as much of concern as I have for Muslim extremists also. Grow a spine people.

But seriously though, those pesky Shira law communist obama pharoh DNA infused metorites are the real problems facing America!

Must be a weird trip being a contemporary conservative in the USA nowadays. And you guys say WE are the ones high out of our gourds.

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Old 09-18-2012, 06:00 AM   #8
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As I said before we all know what needs to be done:
Get off oil-develope USA made power & better efficiencies
Become an anti terrorism state, not one with troops everywhere
Close most middleast bases, currently we can't afford them & are not wanted
send secure internet (satellite) devices to people in oppressed countries
Hold leaders accountable
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:24 AM   #9
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Wow op, your a class act.

Who overthrew a democratically elected government in Iran.

Who supported Saddam?

Who blew up an Iranian airliner filled with civilians?

Who put harsh sanctions on tons of already poor ME countries because they didn't do what we say?

Who invaded a country killing over a hundred thousand civilians indirectly with zero justification?

That awesome list of dictators you put up was great because most had some ties to the US in the beginning.

Why is America hated in the world as opposed to Australia, Norway, Iceland, Canada, etc?

Because we keep fucking with them and terrorism is the only way possible they can fight back.
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Old 09-18-2012, 06:39 AM   #10
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People fall all over themselves trying to make it sound like Christianity and Islam and Judaism and Hinduism and Buddhism and Jainism are all completely equivalent.

Oh they all have their crazies! Why keep picking on Islam?

I'll tell you why. It's a fundamentally different situation with Islam.

Different in many ways. I'll use Christianity as the counter example since it may be in second place for craziness currently.

1.) The raw number of crazies in Islam is way, way fucking higher. WAY fucking higher.

2.) The ratio of crazies to non-crazies in Islam is waaaay out of proportion, Christianity in 2012 in the western world produces the occasional nut, Islam produces a high quantity of violent nuts who are organized and have solidarity.

3.) The nuts within Islam enjoy a LOT more support from the less crazy portions of Islam than the nuts in Christianity do. The nuts in Christianity are shunned for the most part by Christianity at large. Even if the only support the less crazy Muslims give the really crazy ones is looking the other way, keeping their mouth shut, etc... they do give them support.

4.) A halfway decent argument can be made by Christians that the violent nuts are disobeying the Bible, it's not a great case because the Bible contains lots of brutality and PRESCRIBES a lot of brutality, no doubt... but there is a lot of stuff, at least in the New Testament, to be pointed at in opposition to this. In Islam, it is much harder to make the case that these nuts are not following the Koran, because they are following it more closely than anyone. They are in the right, from a textual standpoint.

5.) Christianity has been beaten back and watered down and it's nuts clipped off with a scissors by the march of cultural development in most places it is common. The wind has been taken out of it's sails. Under the right circumstances and at the right time, Christianity has the potential to be as bad as Islam, or nearly so, and indeed it was at times in the past. However, Islam has all of it's vigor still, all the furious intensity of powerful ignorance and stupidity.

It's not equivalent, even though I know my former fellow liberals desire so very much that every single thing in this world be a complete toss up, a total wash, half a dozen of this, 6 of that... not everything is equal. It just isn't. Sorry.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:12 AM   #11
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We're experiencing the end result of policies towards the ME that were doomed to failure. Decades of intelligence gathering was ignored in an attempt to make friends with those that will seemingly forever be our enemies because we don't worship their god and live under their rule of law. If someone else sees a positive in a united ME with nukes (and more on the way) please share it with us

The public at large that is paying attention now knows why some of the policies that we had adopted over the years were put in place even though public opinion was against them. There are people in this world that are light years behind in their modes of thinking and in how they act. They are not our friends, they are to be controlled to the degree required to ensure the safety of the rest of the world. We are experiencing what happens when the constraints are taken off. We, the U.S., were the bad guy before, and we are still the bad guy. What was accomplished?

The grand experiment has failed. "We will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist" was a heart swelling statement but as a policy it failed because those it was directed at have a mindset stuck in the middle ages. It's failure was no surprise to those that are savvy to the world around us. The unicorn and rainbow fellowship bought into it wholly because it just sounded so darn dreamy.

The people that can reign in the radical faction of Islam are the non-radical Islamists. They seem unwilling to do so. Is it laziness, a lack of interest, the knowledge that it is a futile gesture or a form of hopeful acquiescence on their part? I don't know.

A united ME with nukes and starving Europe of oil will certainly make for an interesting time to live in. Thank you Barack Hussein Obama.

I'm sick of radical Muslims.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:14 AM   #12
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We are taking the first steps into 1,000 years of Darkness.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:37 AM   #13
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Geo: excellent post. Every time something happens that once again reminds us of the crazies and their penchant for violence, we hear the false equivalence trying to place it on the same level as other groups. Simply not true.
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Old 09-18-2012, 07:57 AM   #14
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Our corporate masters won't let us leave, they make too much money in these countries and they need protection...

Also, christians also have a pretty dark past...

bu in all i agree with all your suggestions...lets get the hell out and let them stew in thier own mess...
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:01 AM   #15
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We are taking the first steps into 1,000 years of Darkness.
It's been a pretty good ride.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:25 AM   #16
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Quote:
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We are taking the first steps into 1,000 years of Darkness.
they say it only took 8 minutes for the lights around the world to go dark.......
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:31 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomrogue View Post
I am so sick and tired of Radical Christians and Christianity!

I mean it's not like we didn't just have one who mowed down a whole bunch of kids in Norway, a guy who blew up a federal building in Oklahoma, a bunch of priests raping boys, a bunch of nutters who believe that god is talking to them. a bunch of crazy cross burning guys in white hats, a scout organization who is homophobic, people blowing up abortion clinics, or people who believe the earth is 6000 years old and we lived with Dinosaurs. Yeah we have a fucked up religion too. The main difference is that we don't have nearly 100% unemployment for our youth which gives them a lot more time to act all loony.
Except they didn't do it in the name of Christianity.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:36 AM   #18
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2.) The ratio of crazies to non-crazies in Islam is waaaay out of proportion, Christianity in 2012 in the western world produces the occasional nut, Islam produces a high quantity of violent nuts who are organized and have solidarity.
This is the biggest issue I have with the whole Islam scare thing. You know the problem with it, because you identified it right in what you are saying. You caveat the Christianity portion but not the Islam portion.

The ratio of crazies to non-crazies in Islam is not way out of proportion in NA. The ratio of crazies to non-crazies in Christianity is way out of proportion in Africa. In Europe it definitely tips Islams favour in terms of crazies, but from what I understand most of those people are immigrating from the ME.

Now, both the ME and Africa are full of third world countries. Do you think maybe it has nothing to do with the specific religion, and more to do with the economic situation of the region in which that religion resides? Do you honestly believe that if suddenly these people decided to follow Christianity instead that they wouldn't just turn around and use that as the basis to act in basically the same manner?
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:45 AM   #19
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Now, both the ME and Africa are full of third world countries. Do you think maybe it has nothing to do with the specific religion, and more to do with the economic situation of the region in which that religion resides? Do you honestly believe that if suddenly these people decided to follow Christianity instead that they wouldn't just turn around and use that as the basis to act in basically the same manner?
There is also easy access to weapons of war, power vacumms in these countries filled by radical leaders...just imagine life in the US if some radical christian groups got thier way? i.e. death camps for homesexuals, blaspheme laws, etc.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:47 AM   #20
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Yeah I'm so totally annoyed by this minority of people, they're so overwhelming me with their agenda on Fox News.
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:49 AM   #21
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Quote:
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There is also easy access to weapons of war, power vacumms in these countries filled by radical leaders...just imagine life in the US if some radical christian groups got thier way? i.e. death camps for homesexuals, blaspheme laws, etc.
The problem is your example is not based on anything remotely based on reality....
just imagine....
just imagine....
just imagine....
just imagine....
just imagine....
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:17 AM   #22
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Now, both the ME and Africa are full of third world countries. Do you think maybe it has nothing to do with the specific religion, and more to do with the economic situation of the region in which that religion resides? Do you honestly believe that if suddenly these people decided to follow Christianity instead that they wouldn't just turn around and use that as the basis to act in basically the same manner?
I think the miserable conditions of these third world countries are a result of the culture, not the other way around.

I think there is a whole history of cultural refinement, agricultural development, invention, enlightenment, etc that the western world went through which the people in the regions you mention do not have a connection with, were not part of, and I think the idea that they can be brought on board with it within a few generations, when they immigrate in vast quantities and aren't forced to assimilate in European countries, etc, is naive and being proven spectacularly wrong.

Again, I believe the conditions are the result of the culture and the religion, and the history there. Not the other way around as you imply.

I am not advocating Christianity for them, I am a lifelong atheist who, until a few years ago, did what most atheists do and targeted Christianity for my ire almost exclusively. I've now pulled my head out of my ass and stopped swatting a declawed tiger which is chained down to the ground, and recognized that there is a fully clawed, fully mobile lion running right for me.

Many of my fellow atheists refuse to acknowledge Islam as the biggest problem. Christianity is nothing by comparison... Christians in fact, would be better taken as allies in this conflict. Western atheists and western Christians can go back to squabbling when the threat of Islam has been addressed.

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Old 09-18-2012, 09:27 AM   #23
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"The day I'm inaugurated muslim hostility will ease"
~Barack Obama 2007



oops
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:42 AM   #24
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Well said OP, you are a true Freedom Fighter who speaks the truth against PC idiots and supporters of radical Islam. Well Done!
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Old 09-18-2012, 09:43 AM   #25
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Quote:
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I think the miserable conditions of these third world countries are a result of the culture, not the other way around.

I think there is a whole history of cultural refinement, agricultural development, invention, enlightenment, etc that the western world went through which the people in the regions you mention do not have a connection with, were not part of, and I think the idea that they can be brought on board with it within a few generations, when they immigrate in vast quantities and aren't forced to assimilate in European countries, etc, is naive and being proven spectacularly wrong.

Again, I believe the conditions are the result of the culture and the religion, and the history there. Not the other way around as you imply.

I am not advocating Christianity for them, I am a lifelong atheist who, until a few years ago, did what most atheists do and targeted Christianity for my ire almost exclusively. I've now pulled my head out of my ass and stopped swatting a declawed tiger which is chained down to the ground, and recognized that there is a fully clawed, fully mobile lion running right for me.

Many of my fellow atheists refuse to acknowledge Islam as the biggest problem. Christianity is nothing by comparison... Christians in fact, would be better taken as allies in this conflict. Western atheists and western Christians can go back to squabbling when the threat of Islam has been addressed.

You may believe that, but I don't think the data shows it. Specifically, in the same regions of the world where Islam isn't the dominating religion the conditions are still shitty. There are also many other parts of the world which are terrible which Islam doesn't dominate in South American and Asia.

In addition, culture and religion are not necessarily absolute. I know quite a few Muslims and none of them live the same culture as Muslims in the ME. Religion influences culture, but it is not the sole determinant.

I can't speak for all atheists, but for myself the reason I 'refuse to acknowledge Islam as the biggest problem' is because it is not the biggest problem in my day to day life (and the day to day life of my countrymen). Christianity affects (and will continue to affect for at least the near future) how my neighbours and I are allowed to live.
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