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Old 07-02-2012, 02:14 PM   #1
OutHouse
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Thumbs down here is what you will be fined (TAXED) for not having health insurance

YIPPIIII!!! so my government is going to Tax me just for being alive WHOO!!! HOOOO!!! damn that is just fucking awesome!!! i would love to know what the signers of the Declaration of Independence would say if they saw this shit. oh and if i dont pay that tax my government will sue me!!!

the 4th of July used to represent Americas freedoms and telling England to fuck off. Honestly, im not in much of celebration mood with this crap. Americans are not free anymore. we are slaves to our government masters and we let them do this to us hook line and sinker. we work for them now and this bill/law proves it.

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-m...lty-tax-2012-7

you're looking at penalties of approximately the following at the following income levels:

Less than $9,500 income = $0
$9,500 - $37,000 income = $695
$50,000 income = $1,000
$75,000 income = $1,600
$100,000 income = $2,250
$125,000 income = $2,900
$150,000 income = $3,500
$175,000 income = $4,100
$200,000 income = $4,700
Over $200,000 = The cost of a "bronze" health-insurance plan

The IRS will collect the penalty-tax, a fact that will no doubt further enrage those who hate Obamacare.

But here's some more good news for those folks:

The IRS will not have the power to charge you criminally or seize your assets if you refuse to pay. The IRS will only have the ability to sue you. And the most the IRS can collect from you if it wins the suit is 2X the amount you owe. So if you want to thumb your nose at the penalty-tax, the IRS won't be able to do as much to you as they could if you refused to pay, say, income tax.

By the way, the following folks will be exempt from the penalty-tax:

Those who make less than $9,500
Employees whose employers only offer plans that cost more than 8% of the employee's income
Those with "hardships"
Members of Indian tribes
Members of certain religions that don't pay Social Security tax, such as Amish, Hutterites, or Mennonites
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Last edited by OutHouse; 07-02-2012 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:20 PM   #2
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So who here is going to be paying this tax by 2016? In other words, how many people are choosing to be uninsured now and through 2016?
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:21 PM   #3
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<--- I just converted to being an Amish. How do I get out of social security tax? I suppose there is a form to file.
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:24 PM   #4
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<--- I just converted to being an Amish. How do I get out of social security tax? I suppose there is a form to file.
U don't have insurance now?
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:49 PM   #5
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I assume those are gross figures and per person?

IE: A household of 2 adults and 2 kids without insurance, making $32,000 combined would pay $695*4 ($2,780)?
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Old 07-02-2012, 02:52 PM   #6
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I assume those are gross figures and per person?

IE: A household of 2 adults and 2 kids without insurance, making $32,000 combined would pay $695*4 ($2,780)?
that was my question.

It seems to hit the poor pretty damn high actually.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:00 PM   #7
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From the article:

"However, the penalty can never be more than the cost of a "Bronze" heath insurance plan purchased through one of the state "exchanges" that will be created as part of Obamacare. The CBO estimates that these policies will cost $4,500-$5,000 per person and $12,000-$12,500 per family in 2016, with the costs rising thereafter."

Errrr....so if I don't have insurance in 2016, it's going to cost me either $2780 for the no insurance tax, or $12000 to buy insurance? Lets see...save 4x the money. Then, when my family needs medical care, just show up at the emergency room and we'll be covered.

Who pays the bills for that? Does part of ACA mandate that the medical providers can bill folks that do this all the way through bankruptcy, as the Fed is allowed to do with student loans?

I again am not seeing the downside here to just paying the penalty, as that seems far less cost than buying insurance. Bronze to me denotes the least expensive plans (maybe they'll have tin or something? haha), so I don't see the penalty being close to what a plan will cost.

Anyone know if ACA lets medical providers go after people who show up at the emergency room without insurance?

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Old 07-02-2012, 03:00 PM   #8
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I find this whole bill to really hit the lower middle to middle class more than anybody. The poor will be on medicaid. The people making 45K+ will probably have some form of employer based health care. They are exempt from the tax. Then you start adding on restrictions when it comes to FSAs(cap, what you can purchase with it). That hits the middle class trying to make up for their higher deductible plans due to increases in costs of covering more people. And if you need a medical device that costs more than 100 bucks? Another tax. These are taxes that the middle class will feel more than the poor or upper middle class or rich.

The FSA limits and restrictions really irritate me.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:04 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by waggy View Post
that was my question.

It seems to hit the poor pretty damn high actually.
your crazy to think that poor people make 32k

i come from texas, and here the poor dont even hit the first "teir" so, doesnt cost them anything.

i would consider middle class here to be 25-50k
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:05 PM   #10
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<--- I just converted to being an Amish. How do I get out of social security tax? I suppose there is a form to file.
Too late, you're already excommunicated from the Amish community for using a computer and posting on the Internet.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:09 PM   #11
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The FSA limits and restrictions really irritate me.
2nd. Applies to the HSA too.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:12 PM   #12
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I again am not seeing the downside here to just paying the penalty,
you see no problem and have no issue with our government taxing the fuck out its people simply for being alive???

you do nothing and the government taxes you! no wonder the insurance companies are not bitching, they just got 100 million new customers.

Do you work for a insurance company??
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:15 PM   #13
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:18 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by BrunoPuntzJones View Post
I assume those are gross figures and per person?

IE: A household of 2 adults and 2 kids without insurance, making $32,000 combined would pay $695*4 ($2,780)?
From what i understand this is correct. if anybody has a link that explains this in further detail please post it.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutHouse View Post
you see no problem and have no issue with our government taxing the fuck out its people simply for being alive???

you do nothing and the government taxes you! no wonder the insurance companies are not bitching, they just got 100 million new customers.

Do you work for a insurance company??
No I work for something a little less evil, a really large telecomm company.

I have a problem with it Yes, as it's presentely concocted. The thing is, where I live, I see/hear firsthand, day in day out, massive corruption of gov provided services. To the point where, when someone shows me a pretty chart that just so happens to back up their position, and tells me, Oh, your observations are just anecdotal, I can only assume that are a detached from Reality Ftard. There really is no other logical conclusion.

So when laws like these are made up by Politicians and/or Lawyers, two groups of people that are - collectively - scum, I start immediately looking at how these things are going to be played on by the scammers (as the current ones are already done now).

I already have insurance, so I'm not going to be scamming the system. But I sure wonder how this law was written, what's going to happen. My great fear is we're going to add 10's of millions to the healthcare system, and really not get much income at all from them to cover it.

Where does that 10's, or 100's, of Billions come from to cover them?

Chuck
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:31 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky2 View Post
No I work for something a little less evil, a really large telecomm company.

I have a problem with it Yes, as it's presentely concocted. The thing is, where I live, I see/hear firsthand, day in day out, massive corruption of gov provided services. To the point where, when someone shows me a pretty chart that just so happens to back up their position, and tells me, Oh, your observations are just anecdotal, I can only assume that are a detached from Reality Ftard. There really is no other logical conclusion.

So when laws like these are made up by Politicians and/or Lawyers, two groups of people that are - collectively - scum, I start immediately looking at how these things are going to be played on by the scammers (as the current ones are already done now).

I already have insurance, so I'm not going to be scamming the system. But I sure wonder how this law was written, what's going to happen. My great fear is we're going to add 10's of millions to the healthcare system, and really not get much income at all from them to cover it.

Where does that 10's, or 100's, of Billions come from to cover them?

Chuck
Good post, thanks.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chucky2 View Post
From the article:

"However, the penalty can never be more than the cost of a "Bronze" heath insurance plan purchased through one of the state "exchanges" that will be created as part of Obamacare. The CBO estimates that these policies will cost $4,500-$5,000 per person and $12,000-$12,500 per family in 2016, with the costs rising thereafter."

Errrr....so if I don't have insurance in 2016, it's going to cost me either $2780 for the no insurance tax, or $12000 to buy insurance? Lets see...save 4x the money. Then, when my family needs medical care, just show up at the emergency room and we'll be covered.

Who pays the bills for that? Does part of ACA mandate that the medical providers can bill folks that do this all the way through bankruptcy, as the Fed is allowed to do with student loans?

I again am not seeing the downside here to just paying the penalty, as that seems far less cost than buying insurance. Bronze to me denotes the least expensive plans (maybe they'll have tin or something? haha), so I don't see the penalty being close to what a plan will cost.

Anyone know if ACA lets medical providers go after people who show up at the emergency room without insurance?

Chuck
It's a tax, not a penalty, no matter how many times Obama and his team try to spin it.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
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No I work for something a little less evil, a really large telecomm company.

Chuck
Only a little less.......Friend works for ATT wireless and figures the bean counters will see it as a bottom line profit to drop coverage and pay the penalty.

Time will tell.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:36 PM   #19
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So if I already pay for and have health insurance, should I care?
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OutHouse View Post
you see no problem and have no issue with our government taxing the fuck out its people simply for being alive???

you do nothing and the government taxes you! no wonder the insurance companies are not bitching, they just got 100 million new customers.

Do you work for a insurance company??
Well, the insurance companies were instrumental in crafting the bill. "yea sure, we'll cover pre-existing conditions, as long as it swells our customer base, and punish people that don't buy our product mkthanx" You go progressives.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:37 PM   #21
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If it is as cut and dry as that you might as well pay the fine.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:39 PM   #22
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Romney should have a field day with this tax--it is a tax BTW.
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:41 PM   #23
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The government of our founding fathers has been dead for a long time. This mandate is essentially a tax and to me, practically not much different than any other legislation/program
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:47 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by highland145 View Post
Only a little less.......Friend works for ATT wireless and figures the bean counters will see it as a bottom line profit to drop coverage and pay the penalty.

Time will tell.
I'm in IT so no direct bean counter involvement, but, my guess is that's what we'll see except with job/industries that have competitive hiring: It's going to cost them far less to drop coverage and pay the fine, er, tax, than it will be to keep providing it. Perhaps not immediatelly, but, long term, they will be forced to (and will willingly do so anyways, as the Upper Exec crust will love the short term numbers boost from doing so).

Don't worry though: There'll be exchanges and sh1t....
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Old 07-02-2012, 03:48 PM   #25
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I can understand why people are upset that the government is forcing them to buy health insurance. It should be your choice to make whether you want insurance or not. However, considering insurance is essentially an average out of all member expenses, for some people not to buy insurance yet when things come up, the government still have to eventually pay for your medical bills, it becomes difficult to say your actions are not affecting others.

But with that aside, if there truly a way to solve this freedom v. running away health care cost situation in another way that preserves individual rights while keep the health care cost down? If there is, we should propose it in specific detail and test it out in a state program or sample area to see how effective it actually can be. Since this 'everyone must have insurance' approach is already documented in many countries that uses it. The data collected for other approaches can be compared.
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