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Old 06-07-2012, 03:33 PM   #26
Throckmorton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exdeath View Post
I guess I'm a solid axle fanboi even though I drive a IRS Cobra.

I buy cars based on real world performance, not on how many bullet points and acronyms on the spec sheet I can compare with others.

Zomg ur car dusnt have irs dohc bt hid or a front facing camera!!!
Does that mean you prefer a suspension that doesn't work as well on bumpy surfaces? Or is real world performance only a lap time around a smooth track?

To me real world performance includes handling... For my money I want the best handling car I can get.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:35 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by exdeath View Post
I guess I'm a solid axle fanboi even though I drive a IRS Cobra.

I buy cars based on real world performance, not on how many bullet points and acronyms on the spec sheet I can compare with others.

Zomg ur car dusnt have irs dohc bt hid or a front facing camera!!!

How is wanting IRS over SRA about anything other than performance? This is something you can't see while looking at the car and most don't even know the difference. You comparing HID and cameras to things that directly affect handling and performance is just bizarre.


There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with the solid rear axle design. Some people simply like the way they feel and I can understand that, but to state that SRA is "just as good" while driving spiritedly on the street is absolutely false, and the people on here trying to twist that line are doing a disservice to our forum.

And yeah, nothing wrong with being a fanboy. It's perfectly normal to like something 'just because'... But to come on here and be crappy to anyone who makes a comment about IRS versus SRA and then quote a bunch of BS fanboyism as fact is just obnoxious.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:35 PM   #28
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The V6 would still be simpler and have zero turbo lag. I guess if 0-60 is all you care about the turbo is just as good
I take it you've never driven a D/I turbo 4cyl. Spool is instantaneous with a rock solid torque curve from 1800-5000. I think ford could pull out 35mpg highway with a turbo 4
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:39 PM   #29
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Some spy photo... it looks exactly like the current model.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:41 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by SpatiallyAware View Post
How is wanting IRS over SRA about anything other than performance? This is something you can't see while looking at the car and most don't even know the difference. You comparing HID and cameras to things that directly affect handling and performance is just bizarre.


There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with the solid rear axle design. Some people simply like the way they feel and I can understand that, but to state that SRA is "just as good" while driving spiritedly on the street is absolutely false, and the people on here trying to twist that line are doing a disservice to our forum.

And yeah, nothing wrong with being a fanboy. It's perfectly normal to like something 'just because'... But to come on here and be crappy to anyone who makes a comment about IRS versus SRA and then quote a bunch of BS fanboyism as fact is just obnoxious.
Bullshit. Spirited driving is perfectly acceptable in a Mustang. In fact, competitive and competent.
Room for improvement? Yes.
It's damn good at holding its own.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:41 PM   #31
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Oh shit. I upset the BMW brigade.
While hops are annoying, I never lost control or came close. It hops and clunks. it's damn disturbing, and not refined.
Sorry mate, sensationalism isn't a great trait.
Maybe we have different levels of tolerances. For me an upset car is something that causes me to over correct and do something stupid.
And yes, I'm pretty damn good at driving at the limits.
I'm sure every car wrapped around a telephone pole on youtube begins with the driver thinking or saying those exact words.

I'm sure with you it's true though.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:42 PM   #32
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Some spy photo... it looks exactly like the current model.
Jules, I thought you would be smarter than that. Read article, perhaps?
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:44 PM   #33
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I'm sure every car wrapped around a telephone pole on youtube begins with the driver thinking or saying those exact words.

I'm sure with you it's true though.
If you read my posts. I don't drive at the limits on public roads. Never have. Never will.
Spirited, and sometimes stupid, yes.
That is the whole point of my post. Spirited vs limits.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:48 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by SpatiallyAware View Post
How is wanting IRS over SRA about anything other than performance? This is something you can't see while looking at the car and most don't even know the difference. You comparing HID and cameras to things that directly affect handling and performance is just bizarre.


There is nothing inherently 'wrong' with the solid rear axle design. Some people simply like the way they feel and I can understand that, but to state that SRA is "just as good" while driving spiritedly on the street is absolutely false, and the people on here trying to twist that line are doing a disservice to our forum.

And yeah, nothing wrong with being a fanboy. It's perfectly normal to like something 'just because'... But to come on here and be crappy to anyone who makes a comment about IRS versus SRA and then quote a bunch of BS fanboyism as fact is just obnoxious.
I'm just saying the root of this debate is mostly people who would never know the difference in practice and only want to make sure their car doesn't have "less gadgets" than another car, even if that list of "gadgets" includes IRS and even if they don't even know what it is.

Thats really all it ever is. Average Joe doesn't complain about lack of IRS because he didn't like the ride of solid axle. In fact Average Joe has never driven a solid axle car. He doesnt know why he wants IRS, except for quoting "better handling" because he read it in a magazine. He just knows his friends BMW has something called IRS so he insists he must have it too when its his turn to buy a new car so he doesn't feel inferior or left out. That is the driving car buying decision process for 99% of people and the reason they complain about things they have no clue about.

Enthusiasts buy what meets their needs and performs, but the rest of consumerville just wants to roll around in the longest feature list with the most acronyms.

Last edited by exdeath; 06-07-2012 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:59 PM   #35
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If you read my posts. I don't drive at the limits on public roads. Never have. Never will.
Spirited, and sometimes stupid, yes.
That is the whole point of my post. Spirited vs limits.

Right... And you're driving at 80% of the car's limit until you hit a tight corner with washboard bumps and end up in a ditch because having SRA is what put you at 101%. You're just driving spiritedly, right? Nowhere near the limit, right?

The bottom line is that your argument is always that SRA can "hold its own" to IRS and is "just as good on the street" which is absolutely false.


It might not bother you personally, but SRA is nowhere near as good as IRS on the street while driving spiritedly. As a matter of fact, it's on the street where SRA shows its limitations. Truly your argument about SRA being just fine for the street really shows how little you know about the actual handling differences.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:02 PM   #36
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I'm just saying the root of this debate is mostly people who would never know the difference in practice and only want to make sure their car doesn't have "less gadgets" than another car, even if that list of "gadgets" includes IRS and even if they don't even know what it is.

Thats really all it ever is. Average Joe doesn't complain about lack of IRS because he didn't like the ride of solid axle. In fact Average Joe has never driven a solid axle car. He doesnt know why he wants IRS, except for quoting "better handling" because he read it in a magazine. He just knows his friends BMW has something called IRS so he insists he must have it too when its his turn to buy a new car so he doesn't feel inferior or left out. That is the driving car buying decision process for 99% of people and the reason they complain about things they have no clue about.

IRS is not a "gadget".... And most people on ATG (where we're having this discussion...) know exactly what it is.

If you have never driven IRS or you aren't a car person then you won't notice the difference, which is fine. But the people on here insisting as fact that SRA gives up nothing to IRS are incorrect.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:09 PM   #37
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I'm just saying the root of this debate is mostly people who would never know the difference in practice and only want to make sure their car doesn't have "less gadgets" than another car, even if that list of "gadgets" includes IRS and even if they don't even know what it is.

Thats really all it ever is. Average Joe doesn't complain about lack of IRS because he didn't like the ride of solid axle. In fact Average Joe has never driven a solid axle car. He doesnt know why he wants IRS, except for quoting "better handling" because he read it in a magazine. He just knows his friends BMW has something called IRS so he insists he must have it too when its his turn to buy a new car so he doesn't feel inferior or left out. That is the driving car buying decision process for 99% of people and the reason they complain about things they have no clue about.
The average joe doesn't know what a solid axle is, much less whether a Mustang has one.

Some enthusiasts swear the solid axle is just as good because they read a C&D review that said it's "well engineered" and because a Mustang beat an M3 around a racetrack.

Some recognize the handling benefits of IRS and see no reason why a Mustang shouldn't handle as well as a BRZ, Miata, or BMW.

Some enthusiasts prefer the solid axle because you get less wheel hop with 900 hp at the drag strip. Fine by me, I respect their preference based on actual performance that benefits them.

I've driven solid axle cars and IRS cars and I can tell the difference under pretty much any driving conditions. I chose my current and previous vehicles (Cherokee and Grand Cherokee) specifically because they have solid axles.

Try going to a Jeep forum and telling them there's no difference and that they only want solid axles because it's a gadget.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:11 PM   #38
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Right... And you're driving at 80% of the car's limit until you hit a tight corner with washboard bumps and end up in a ditch because having SRA is what put you at 101%. You're just driving spiritedly, right? Nowhere near the limit, right?

The bottom line is that your argument is always that SRA can "hold its own" to IRS and is "just as good on the street" which is absolutely false.


It might not bother you personally, but SRA is nowhere near as good as IRS on the street while driving spiritedly. As a matter of fact, it's on the street where SRA shows its limitations. Truly your argument about SRA being just fine for the street really shows how little you know about the actual handling differences.
Are you rally car driving now. Please.
You are resorting to sensationalist statements yet again. Washboards wiping out Mustangs all day long. Oh the humanity. When will it end?

Are you really ready to lump every Mustang driver as beneath you because they don't care about the difference?
Are we going to start generalizing?
Well fuck, you must be like team Rahal or something.

All this time, a Mustang's live axle could have killed me. Who knew my life was in peril.
Oh Bavaria, send your people to save me from Dearborn's iron wrath.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:17 PM   #39
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Are you people really arguing IRS vs live axle again? REALLY?
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:18 PM   #40
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Are you rally car driving now. Please.
You are resorting to sensationalist statements yet again. Washboards wiping out Mustangs all day long. Oh the humanity. When will it end?

Are you really ready to lump every Mustang driver as beneath you because they don't care about the difference?
Are we going to start generalizing?
Well fuck, you must be like team Rahal or something.

All this time, a Mustang's live axle could have killed me. Who knew my life was in peril.
Oh Bavaria, send your people to save me from Dearborn's iron wrath.
Your sig says you drive a FWD V6. Do you also have a Mustang?
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:20 PM   #41
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Are you rally car driving now. Please.
You are resorting to sensationalist statements yet again. Washboards wiping out Mustangs all day long. Oh the humanity. When will it end?

Are you really ready to lump every Mustang driver as beneath you because they don't care about the difference?
Are we going to start generalizing?
Well fuck, you must be like team Rahal or something.

All this time, a Mustang's live axle could have killed me. Who knew my life was in peril.
Oh Bavaria, send your people to save me from Dearborn's iron wrath.
What in the world... You continually twist things into this alternate reality... I have made it really clear that there's nothing inherently wrong with SRA nor the people that like it. I'm not lumping mustang drivers into any category either...? And talk about sensationalizing, how about you sit down and reread your own posts.


It clearly bothers you immensely, but the fact is that IRS handles better than SRA in every single real world 'on the street' situation. If you have SRA then you can't power through a bumpy corner without drastically upsetting the rear suspension, I consider that a huge limitation on a spiritedly driven sports car.

This doesn't mean it's a bad design, or that you shouldn't get SRA, or that there aren't people who prefer the feel of an SRA setup.... But it doesn't change the fact that it's inferior to IRS in every measure except price.

And don't misread me, I am not 'downing' SRA or the people who have them, merely directly replying to your complete falsehoods about how SRA is 'just as good' as IRS.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:21 PM   #42
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IRS is not a "gadget".... And most people on ATG (where we're having this discussion...) know exactly what it is.

If you have never driven IRS or you aren't a car person then you won't notice the difference, which is fine. But the people on here insisting as fact that SRA gives up nothing to IRS are incorrect.
NOBODY IS ARGUING SRA GIVES UP NOTHING TO IRS.
We are saying its perfectly streetble, oh gee and great on a track.
And we are mocking you for thinking that every Mustang driver feels the need to burn a de Ferran-esque hot lap making them on the knives edge of disaster....on public streets.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:24 PM   #43
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Your sig says you drive a FWD V6. Do you also have a Mustang?
Do I have to OWN one to qualify in your entrance exam? Does reading MT make me part of your club? That's what qualifies you right? Or is it owning Jeeps?
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:28 PM   #44
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Do I have to OWN one to qualify in your entrance exam? Does reading MT make me part of your club? That's what qualifies you right? Or is it owning Jeeps?

Wait, so the leader of the historical "SRA = IRA" brigade doesn't even own an SRA setup...


This debate with you has existed long before this thread btw.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:30 PM   #45
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NOBODY IS ARGUING SRA GIVES UP NOTHING TO IRS.
We are saying its perfectly streetble, oh gee and great on a track.
And we are mocking you for thinking that every Mustang driver feels the need to burn a de Ferran-esque hot lap making them on the knives edge of disaster....on public streets.

This has been your continual argument for a long time. While you may not directly stated that in this particular thread, you have said that on the street it makes no difference which is my biggest issue.

If someone was buying a track car then it might not make as much of a difference, but on the street is where you truly need the rear to stay planted on imperfect roads.

And either way, the fact that ford waited until 2015 to give every mustang IRS is surprising. Why do you think they finally made the switch?
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:38 PM   #46
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all this new car talk makes me want to ditch the WRX, drive a 90's sports car on the weekend and get new tech in my daily with todays awesome new power/mpg/tech loaded interiors
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This thread is udderly ridiculous
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:43 PM   #47
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NOBODY IS ARGUING SRA GIVES UP NOTHING TO IRS.
We are saying its perfectly streetble, oh gee and great on a track.
And we are mocking you for thinking that every Mustang driver feels the need to burn a de Ferran-esque hot lap making them on the knives edge of disaster....on public streets.
You said your life has been in peril from a Mustang's SRA
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:00 PM   #48
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Wait, so the leader of the historical "SRA = IRA" brigade doesn't even own an SRA setup...


This debate with you has existed long before this thread btw.
Lolololol.
I used to own several.
But, I guess I'm put out of the spatially aware club. Oh, how will I ever go on?

Lets just say I'm very blessed in the fact I get to drive cars I can't afford doing silly things in a variety of environments.
I'm a professional driver? No.

I know my limits, and are comfortable with them.
I also know enough that owining a car and taking it to a few times to track doesn't make me an expert.
And I sure as hell won't try to assess anyone's else's potential on the same fashion you currently do.
So let's start a pissing contest.
-I have driven an Indy Car before. Vintage now. An old Lola. I've done over 190 in it.
-I've done hundreds of miles in a SCORE trophy class truck. Err vehicle.
-I've done dozens upon dozens of laps in GT3 class cars. Wait was it GT3. Fuck that was a blur. Let me verify that.
-IMSA defunct cars. Yep.
-currently my only privilege is being able to help a few buddies that happen to own vintage racing cars. Mostly, Porsches.
I can't wait to get a crack at that. If they ever let me do so.

At best out of all them, the most I got was a "you've got a good natural talent".
I'm not a pro, never will pretend.
I've been to one Bondurant weekend eons ago.
And I'll never go on about being an expert.

However I've been immersed enough in the world to know who does know what they are doing.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:01 PM   #49
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You said your life has been in peril from a Mustang's SRA
Is your sarcasm meter broken. Are you just pure trolling now.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:01 PM   #50
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all this new car talk makes me want to ditch the WRX, drive a 90's sports car on the weekend and get new tech in my daily with todays awesome new power/mpg/tech loaded interiors
You and I think alike.
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