Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Social > Politics and News

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-26-2012, 11:00 PM   #26
Doppel
Lifer
 
Doppel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13,313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davmat787 View Post
It won't be too long before there are small enough explosive micro drones that one could fly up his nose or next to his head and press the explode button. Of course that is a targeted assassination of a head of state, but on the other hand would result in the least loss of life.
He is a legit target if in an official war. Perhaps one need be declared on him so that this could happen. His wife will find it particularly hard to go on shopping trips if she is being rushed for safe house to safe house as well.
Doppel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2012, 11:28 PM   #27
JEDIYoda
Lifer
 
JEDIYoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Israeli side
Posts: 21,085
Default

How long until somebody does something about Syria?

oh...about as long as it takes one of Lemon Law`s predictions to come true..lol
__________________
JohnOfSheffield -- That said, Palestine will exist when they understand that Israel exists, it's that blatantly simple!
JEDIYoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 02:50 AM   #28
Karl Agathon
Golden Member
 
Karl Agathon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DucatiMonster696 View Post
Let the UN, Europe and the surrounding Arab nations deal with it. There is no reason why the US should be involved in that mess.
I have to admit, i'm very conflicted on this issue. I do find it very telling how the surrounding Arab nations and the Arab League have been basically useless. The Arab league and UN having been issuing nothing but lip service. Not lifting a finger to help. Boy oh boy though, if the U.S. decided to get involved, you can bet there would be calls for jihad by many in the Arab world and how once again, America would be criticized for being the world police. Red China is supposedly a "rising superpower" why doesnt she do anything?

Last edited by Karl Agathon; 05-27-2012 at 02:58 AM.
Karl Agathon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 07:32 AM   #29
cybrsage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 13,021
Default

Due to the Libyan intervention, we are caught in a catch-22. If we go in, we are trampling on the Russian's ally - that is bad for obvious reasons. However, if we do not go in, we alienate the group which wins the fight (and it will be the rebels eventually).

The rebels already have held up signs saying the world was safer with American Republicans in office and blaming Obama for attributing to the many deaths.



It is pretty telling when Islamic Arabs are wishing Bush was in office still...
cybrsage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 12:37 PM   #30
davmat787
Diamond Member
 
davmat787's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Washington... no, the state!
Posts: 5,007
Default

What I would like to know is just what effort the Obama administration has made to work with the Russians on this problem. Any outside solution will have to involve the Russians, so have we or anyone else even tried yet? Syria is money and land for a military base to Russia, their only base outside Russia's borders in fact.
__________________
- Founding member of the ATOT Aspiring Falconers Association.

- Don't like my comments? Press ALT-F4 to load internet forum ignore tool option.
davmat787 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 01:24 PM   #31
senseamp
Lifer
 
senseamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 22,789
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post
Due to the Libyan intervention, we are caught in a catch-22. If we go in, we are trampling on the Russian's ally - that is bad for obvious reasons. However, if we do not go in, we alienate the group which wins the fight (and it will be the rebels eventually).

The rebels already have held up signs saying the world was safer with American Republicans in office and blaming Obama for attributing to the many deaths.



It is pretty telling when Islamic Arabs are wishing Bush was in office still...
Yeah, it's nice having an American idiot president ready to blow a Trillion dollars to fight on your behalf.
__________________
*Not speaking on behalf of any company*
senseamp is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 03:29 PM   #32
Hacp
Lifer
 
Hacp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,733
Default

Why should we worry about Syria? Why should we help the Syrian rebels? Look at what the Lybian rebels have done? Once they got in power, they started to rape, kill and pillage. If we do end up doing something in Syria, I would suggest just sending 10 nukes to get rid of the damn place. At least it would stop taking so much space and time on the news.
__________________

Hacp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 06:08 PM   #33
cybrsage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 13,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by senseamp View Post
Yeah, it's nice having an American idiot president ready to blow a Trillion dollars to fight on your behalf.
It is pretty sad when Islamic Arabs want Obama LESS than the man who invaded TWO Islamic nations.
cybrsage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 10:13 PM   #34
BoberFett
Lifer
 
BoberFett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 33,201
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig234 View Post
You need to register Democratic Party, Doppel.
Craig the war monger.
__________________
"You had me at Meat Tornado." -- "I was born ready. I'm Ron f***ing Swanson."
BoberFett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2012, 10:40 PM   #35
BoomerD
Lifer
 
BoomerD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Where I hang my hat.
Posts: 44,846
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post
Due to the Libyan intervention, we are caught in a catch-22. If we go in, we are trampling on the Russian's ally - that is bad for obvious reasons. However, if we do not go in, we alienate the group which wins the fight (and it will be the rebels eventually).

The rebels already have held up signs saying the world was safer with American Republicans in office and blaming Obama for attributing to the many deaths.



It is pretty telling when Islamic Arabs are wishing Bush was in office still...
But...if Bush would have decided to help Libya, he'd have invaded Australia.
BoomerD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 01:34 AM   #36
Craig234
Lifer
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 32,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppel View Post
This is a fair point and no I would not go there myself with a rifle. However, as a few UN nations did with Libya they could do here. Assad needs to be told clearly he will be targeted by serious military airpower if he doesn't cease this behavior right now.

I am not talking about boots on the ground.

Fwiw I have n idea at all what overall percentage of the population actually supports him.

The UN IS THE cop of the world and it is doing jack squat here exactly as it did in Libya for far too long.

As much as the West loves oil it was also the west that's pushed for the Libyan no fl zone and although Libya is an oil country there was never any scenario in which oil was benefitted by the ouster of gadhafi. I think western powers supported that--along with the Arab league because it was simply the right thing to do.

There comes a time when by ignoring evil that you could have stopped you have become complicit by your apathy.
Don't blame the UN, blame the people who hold power over the UN who have given it very limited power and support to do anything.

I support the UN having a stronger role; those who attack the UN have no place criticizing it for not doing more when they are the cause (not saying you fit that).

The UN security council is meeting right now about this. Let's hope they decide to take action.
Craig234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 03:11 AM   #37
gevorg
Diamond Member
 
gevorg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,727
Default

Whoever is arming the rebels, needs to stop, they're just adding fuel to fire (I suspect its nearby countries, possibly by third parties that originated from NATO). Rebels will not overpower the Assad by themselves. The Russians have the ball in their court now, they need to heavily press on Assad and tell him that if he doesn't do what we/UN say, with proof, we'll step back and make him another Qaddafi. Continuing to send weapons to Assad is a very bad game on their part.



gevorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 04:19 AM   #38
Harabec
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Israel
Posts: 1,092
Default

Why should anything be done with Syria? Why Syria anyway? Why not Darfur? Or are they worth less than Syrians?

The world is an evil place. People die. You can't save everyone, even if you care about them.
Harabec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 09:50 AM   #39
cybrsage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 13,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harabec View Post
Why should anything be done with Syria? Why Syria anyway? Why not Darfur? Or are they worth less than Syrians?

The world is an evil place. People die. You can't save everyone, even if you care about them.
In the realm of geopolitical importance, Syria is far more important than Darfur. A life is a life, and all are equally important, but to a government, they are both equally unimportant...
cybrsage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 10:24 AM   #40
Doppel
Lifer
 
Doppel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 13,313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig234 View Post
Don't blame the UN, blame the people who hold power over the UN who have given it very limited power and support to do anything.

I support the UN having a stronger role; those who attack the UN have no place criticizing it for not doing more when they are the cause (not saying you fit that).


The UN security council is meeting right now about this. Let's hope they decide to take action.
Actually, I probably do from time to time.

I have always hated the veto votes in the un security council and it's likely Russia or China would use it again this time to ensure nobody can do anything.
Quote:
Why should anything be done with Syria? Why Syria anyway? Why not Darfur? Or are they worth less than Syrians?
MAYBE this could be a quicker way to stop killing. If the buck stops with one guy and you take him out he falls apart. Africa seems to mired in war like it's an entrenched part of the psyche of many there, as if there really is nothing to ever be done about it.
Doppel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #41
Craig234
Lifer
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 32,625
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppel View Post
Actually, I probably do from time to time.

I have always hated the veto votes in the un security council and it's likely Russia or China would use it again this time to ensure nobody can do anything.
Actually, I think criticizing the vetoes is supporting a stronger UN. There are practical issues about what to do if the vetoes are removed, and the UN passes a measure a major power disagrees with and the major power refuses to go along with it - the UN is not really going to say 'ok, let's start a war with the major power to force them to do what the majority wants'.

Not sure how to solve that - one issue is how the UN needs to ask for everything for each mission that's approved.

Should the UN have funding and a large force established in advance it can use?

That is politically unlikely - countries seem to much prefer spending on their own defense forces to contributing to the UN's, the US more than most.

So, it's not so much the UN that's broken on this, as the countries' politics for peace.

It doesn't seem like we can get around the problem issues - even if nationalism leads to oppression and war, countries prefer it - and a strong UN still can have 'corrupt' votes, because it's nations voting their interests that are not necessarily 'justice'. Instead it's not clear how to mainly have it be useful, on security issues, for more than smaller bad countries with a broad consensus having measures taken - a Libya, Iraq, Syria. And even there, there are veto issues as it stands.

And the US isn't perfect on this - while Russia and China protect wrongdoing countries, the US has done the same - and is almost guaranteed not to vote against Israel.

So, it's useful for those weaker countries that don't have a veto power country allied.

Save234
Craig234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 06:22 PM   #42
dawheat
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post
It is pretty sad when Islamic Arabs want Obama LESS than the man who invaded TWO Islamic nations.
And thank God for that
dawheat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 10:24 PM   #43
Freshgeardude
Diamond Member
 
Freshgeardude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post
Two main reasons we are not involved in Syria.

1. No oil - Libya has lots of oil, so we got involved.
2. Russian bases in Syria - Libya had no Russian bases to worry about.
Forgot one:

3. Syria is in the axis power with Iran.

Attack Syria, piss off Iran, much bigger conflict.




Syria is a clear example of how the UN got the nickname Useless Nations. This type of situation is what the UN should be solving, together as the world.

The blowback from Iran will be less severe if a UN joint mission stopped the violence vs just the US doing it alone.

Iran isnt dumb enough to attack everyone.
__________________
I sometimes post on my phone so please excuse any mistakes I may make.
Freshgeardude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 10:30 PM   #44
cybrsage
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 13,021
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshgeardude View Post
Forgot one:

3. Syria is in the axis power with Iran.

Attack Syria, piss off Iran, much bigger conflict.
Interestingly enough, right now that might be a bad thing for Iran. Since it appears many want to war with Iran, if we can force their hand via Syria we get what we want and they are the cause.




Quote:
Syria is a clear example of how the UN got the nickname Useless Nations. This type of situation is what the UN should be solving, together as the world.

The blowback from Iran will be less severe if a UN joint mission stopped the violence vs just the US doing it alone.

Iran isnt dumb enough to attack everyone.
I agree with all of this.
cybrsage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 10:37 PM   #45
randomrogue
Diamond Member
 
randomrogue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,462
Default

Total deaths: ~14,000

That's about the same as those who died in Mexico during the last half of last year.

Total Deaths in Mexico during the last 5 years due to Drug Violence: ~50,000

It's really hard for me to justify spending a trillion dollars sending a couple hundred thousand soldiers overseas (or whatever ridiculous shit we'd come up with) when we have our own problems here at our own border.
randomrogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-28-2012, 11:29 PM   #46
davmat787
Diamond Member
 
davmat787's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Washington... no, the state!
Posts: 5,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshgeardude View Post
Syria is a clear example of how the UN got the nickname Useless Nations. This type of situation is what the UN should be solving, together as the world.

The blowback from Iran will be less severe if a UN joint mission stopped the violence vs just the US doing it alone.
Very good point about the UN, or rather its failure to handle this situation. This article about the UN and Syria was just posted, thought a link would be in order. Unfortunately, I expect Assad is quite aware of the UN's impotence and unwillingness to engage in any sort of the type of action this situation needs.

UN envoy Kofi Annan set to meet Syria's Bashar al-Assad

Quote:
Kofi Annan has travelled to Damascus for talks with the Syrian leader Bashar al Assad.

Mr Annan's plan to end the country's conflict has been overshadowed by international revulsion at Friday's massacre in the Houla region.

Mr Annan called the massacre "an appalling moment with profound consequences".

Survivors have told the BBC of their shock and fear as regime forces entered their homes and killed their families.

Mr Annan said the Syrian government has to take "bold steps" to show it is serious about peace.
__________________
- Founding member of the ATOT Aspiring Falconers Association.

- Don't like my comments? Press ALT-F4 to load internet forum ignore tool option.
davmat787 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:32 AM   #47
rchiu
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3,850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freshgeardude View Post
Forgot one:

3. Syria is in the axis power with Iran.

Attack Syria, piss off Iran, much bigger conflict.




Syria is a clear example of how the UN got the nickname Useless Nations. This type of situation is what the UN should be solving, together as the world.

The blowback from Iran will be less severe if a UN joint mission stopped the violence vs just the US doing it alone.

Iran isnt dumb enough to attack everyone.

UN is working as intended. It give world powers veto to prevent anyone force the issue and create conflict. If Russia feel strong enough to veto in UN, it will feel strong enough to supply Syria arm, or even engage in the conflict if US and allies go at it without UN.

UN simulates world politics, except that it let the politics work itself out in the conference room and not war zones.

Nobody care about Iran, nobody is doing anything about Syria because of Russia, plain and simple. Syria is at the heart of central asia, Russia's play ground and is Russia's strategic partners. Russia want to exert control and establish their influence in this region, much like the US want to do in few other countries. You don't want to start engaging Syria rebels unless you want to start a proxy fight with Russia.
__________________
Main Rig: i7-3820@4.3Ghz/gigabyte x79-UD3/4x4 Patriot Sector 7@1600MHz/Corsair H100/ASUS GeForce GTX 680 ASUS DirectCU II TOP/Thermaltake Armor Revo
rchiu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 08:30 AM   #48
piasabird
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 15,030
Default

Why dont you strap on a back pack buy a gun and head that direction? Why ask someone else to fight the war? You dont expect Europeans to sign up to die for syrians do you?
__________________
Asus Memo Pad 7 HD. Quad Core Tablet.
piasabird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 08:33 AM   #49
eskimospy
Lifer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 32,701
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by davmat787 View Post
What I would like to know is just what effort the Obama administration has made to work with the Russians on this problem. Any outside solution will have to involve the Russians, so have we or anyone else even tried yet? Syria is money and land for a military base to Russia, their only base outside Russia's borders in fact.
Of course we've tried. We have been trying for about a year now. There have been massive diplomatic efforts at all levels to try and get the Russians to stop their support for the Syrian government.
eskimospy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 08:34 AM   #50
eskimospy
Lifer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 32,701
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by randomrogue View Post
Total deaths: ~14,000

That's about the same as those who died in Mexico during the last half of last year.

Total Deaths in Mexico during the last 5 years due to Drug Violence: ~50,000

It's really hard for me to justify spending a trillion dollars sending a couple hundred thousand soldiers overseas (or whatever ridiculous shit we'd come up with) when we have our own problems here at our own border.
I sincerely doubt we would be sending any significant amounts of troops to Syria. We would be looking more towards the Libyan model.
eskimospy is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.