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Old 03-21-2012, 11:40 AM   #3501
HomerJS
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Originally Posted by karmypolitics View Post
we've already gone over it. The ONLY witness who is crying foul is Mary Cutcher and it is my belief that she is mistaken. I've explained it before, but her statement to the press has logical contradictions and is full of speculation about things that she cannot know.

I do believe that the 911 calls prove it wasn't a case of racial profiling since a) he was not calling 911 b/c Martin was black but because of how he was walking and b) there are so many black residents of the neighborhood that a black guy walking on the street would be normal.

that leaves the drug test which IMO is a minor oversight since they could likely detect if he was on drugs at the scene and the events leading up including which he was safely operating a vehicle point to his sobriety.
Drug/alcohol test is a big fucking deal if it shows Z was impaired in any way. If the police were even handed in the investigation why did they test T? Were they looking for something on him only???

ANSWER THAT!!!!!!!
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:41 AM   #3502
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People need to stop saying "chased him down" or chasing him. There is ZERO evidence of that happening. It's all part of the story they have made up in their head, fueled by the media/mob lynching.
His 911 call. He gets out of his car to pursue Martin who is running away from him. Stop posting crap.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:42 AM   #3503
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So he was shot next to the car?
and I guess that heavy breathing means he wasen't running after T, chasing him???
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:43 AM   #3504
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That is spidey claiming Zimmerman was savagely beaten.
the whole point of self-defense is to stop a potential savage beating.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:44 AM   #3505
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People need to stop saying "chased him down" or chasing him. There is ZERO evidence of that happening. It's all part of the story they have made up in their head, fueled by the media/mob lynching.
A dead teenager with Zimmerman standing nearby in a backyard as reported by those lying cops?
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:45 AM   #3506
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Drug/alcohol test is a big fucking deal if it shows Z was impaired in any way. If the police were even handed in the investigation why did they test T? Were they looking for something on him only???

ANSWER THAT!!!!!!!
events leading up show that he likely was not impaired.

They did ballistics tests. LIkely tried to calculate entry wounds and number of shots fired. That is substantially most important.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:45 AM   #3507
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Originally Posted by karmypolitics View Post
the whole point of self-defense is to stop a potential savage beating.
The point of self defense is preventing harm whether a beeating or being stalked by a creepy stranger.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:46 AM   #3508
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Originally Posted by karmypolitics View Post
summary.

1. 911 call not profiling because a) he was suspicious of movement patterns b) unsure of subject's race until a third through the call and c) high percentage of black residents mean that being black in and of itself is not out of place.

2. he follows trayvon which is not a criminal act in and of itself.
1) I didn't mention profiling at all. Just that all the pro-Zimmerman posters were certain that he couldn't possibly be able to tell that Martin was black. Proven false by 911 call.

2) Didn't suggest it was criminal at all. Just that all the pro-Zimmerman posters were certain that he didn't follow him on foot and even went so far as to suggest he was pulled from the car by Martin. Proven false by 911 call.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:46 AM   #3509
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Originally Posted by Capt Caveman View Post
His 911 call. He gets out of his car to pursue Martin who is running away from him. Stop posting crap.
Follow or keep an eye on does not equal chase. Stop posting lies.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:46 AM   #3510
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His 911 call. He gets out of his car to pursue Martin who is running away from him. Stop posting crap.
well, the question is this: is such an act a crime? The answer AFAIKT is no.

at that point:

He did not threaten Trayvon with deadly force (i.e. point a gun at him)

did not yell anything threatening to Trayvon (i.e. I"m going to kill you)
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:47 AM   #3511
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Drug/alcohol test is a big fucking deal if it shows Z was impaired in any way. If the police were even handed in the investigation why did they test T? Were they looking for something on him only???

ANSWER THAT!!!!!!!
from what i read its standard procedure to test if someone has died. BUT it is not procedure to test the shooter unless they are arrested.

personally i don't mind if both parties are tested.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:48 AM   #3512
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The point of self defense is preventing harm whether a beeating or being stalked by a creepy stranger.
this is about an earlier point of someone asking why Zimmerman didn't have more serious injuries.

I agree that if T had managed to get the gun out of Z's hands and shoot him, he would have been justified.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:49 AM   #3513
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1) I didn't mention profiling at all. Just that all the pro-Zimmerman posters were certain that he couldn't possibly be able to tell that Martin was black. Proven false by 911 call.

2) Didn't suggest it was criminal at all. Just that all the pro-Zimmerman posters were certain that he didn't follow him on foot and even went so far as to suggest he was pulled from the car by Martin. Proven false by 911 call.
Not me. And that was early on before all the facts were out.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:49 AM   #3514
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Originally Posted by karmypolitics View Post
events leading up show that he likely was not impaired.

They did ballistics tests. LIkely tried to calculate entry wounds and number of shots fired. That is substantially most important.
Then why was T tested and not Z? What events lead police to believe T was impaired??

If Z was impaired it would make its importance comparable to the ballistics test. If Z was impaired it could have made him paranoid about a completely innocent person walking down the street.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:49 AM   #3515
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Follow or keep an eye on does not equal chase. Stop posting lies.
Holy shit. He admitted it on the call. Heavy breathing. Stop being dense. It only fuels the caricature.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:50 AM   #3516
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The point of self defense is preventing harm whether a beeating or being stalked by a creepy stranger.
You don't get to use force on somebody not committing a crime like being followed by a NW who has every legal reason to be there.

You do get to use force when somebody is assaulting you (martin assaulting zimmerman is a felony).
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:52 AM   #3517
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Not me. And that was early on before all the facts were out.
Great, good for you. The point stands then. Once these two points were dismissed as incorrect, the goalposts moved. Like I pointed out originally.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:52 AM   #3518
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Originally Posted by spidey07 View Post
You don't get to use force on somebody not committing a crime like being followed by a NW who has every legal reason to be there.

You do get to use force when somebody is assaulting you (martin assaulting zimmerman is a felony).
stalking is against the law. T felt his life was in danger and had the right to self defense. Phone call to girlfriend confirms.

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Stalking is a term commonly used to refer to unwanted and obsessive attention by an individual or group to another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person and/or monitoring them
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:53 AM   #3519
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Originally Posted by spidey07 View Post
You don't get to use force on somebody not committing a crime like being followed by a NW who has every legal reason to be there.

You do get to use force when somebody is assaulting you (martin assaulting zimmerman is a felony).
I bet I (and most posters here) know why you won't apply that logic to the parties in reverse.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:53 AM   #3520
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Holy shit. He admitted it on the call. Heavy breathing. Stop being dense. It only fuels the caricature.
a chase is not a criminal act under the law. ONly a provable criminal act leading up to the shooting can be grounds for invalidating "stand your ground"
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:54 AM   #3521
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Then why was T tested and not Z? What events lead police to believe T was impaired??

If Z was impaired it would make its importance comparable to the ballistics test. If Z was impaired it could have made him paranoid about a completely innocent person walking down the street.
I'm going to post this one more time..

http://communities.washingtontimes.c...legal-experts/

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Mr. Zimmerman was not tested for drugs or alcohol. Trayvon Martin was.
Except for DUIs, police cannot test suspects for drugs or alcohol, unless the accused demands or consents to it, or they get a warrant. Trayvon Martin was tested for drugs and alcohol because it is the normal procedure of autopsies to determine the exact cause of death or contributing factors of death. The so-called law enforcement and legal experts who claim Zimmerman should have been tested demonstrate they have no expertise.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:54 AM   #3522
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Originally Posted by spidey07 View Post
You don't get to use force on somebody not committing a crime like being followed by a NW who has every legal reason to be there.

You do get to use force when somebody is assaulting you (martin assaulting zimmerman is a felony).
Zimmerman grabbing Martin to stop him from running. Assault.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:54 AM   #3523
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a chase is not a criminal act under the law. ONly a provable criminal act leading up to the shooting can be grounds for invalidating "stand your ground"
Again with the "criminal act" strawman. I'm not claiming that it was. Merely that Zimmerman did in fact get out of his own car and chase Martin.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:54 AM   #3524
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Great, good for you. The point stands then. Once these two points were dismissed as incorrect, the goalposts moved. Like I pointed out originally.
I'm not talking about pro-Z posters. I'm talking about the Sanford PD's credibility. pay attention.
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Old 03-21-2012, 11:55 AM   #3525
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I'm not talking about pro-Z posters. I'm talking about the Sanford PD's credibility. pay attention.
Are you suggesting they didn't have access to their own 911 tape?
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