Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[HomerJS]

Originally Posted by karmypolitics

we've already gone over it. The ONLY witness who is crying foul is Mary Cutcher and it is my belief that she is mistaken. I've explained it before, but her statement to the press has logical contradictions and is full of speculation about things that she cannot know.

I do believe that the 911 calls prove it wasn't a case of racial profiling since a) he was not calling 911 b/c Martin was black but because of how he was walking and b) there are so many black residents of the neighborhood that a black guy walking on the street would be normal.

that leaves the drug test which IMO is a minor oversight since they could likely detect if he was on drugs at the scene and the events leading up including which he was safely operating a vehicle point to his sobriety.

Drug/alcohol test is a big fucking deal if it shows Z was impaired in any way. If the police were even handed in the investigation why did they test T? Were they looking for something on him only???

ANSWER THAT!!!!!!!

[Capt Caveman]

Originally Posted by spidey07

People need to stop saying "chased him down" or chasing him. There is ZERO evidence of that happening. It's all part of the story they have made up in their head, fueled by the media/mob lynching.

His 911 call. He gets out of his car to pursue Martin who is running away from him. Stop posting crap.

[HomerJS]

Originally Posted by badb0y

So he was shot next to the car?

and I guess that heavy breathing means he wasen't running after T, chasing him???

[micrometers]

Originally Posted by WHAMPOM

That is spidey claiming Zimmerman was savagely beaten.

the whole point of self-defense is to stop a potential savage beating.

[WHAMPOM]

Originally Posted by spidey07

People need to stop saying "chased him down" or chasing him. There is ZERO evidence of that happening. It's all part of the story they have made up in their head, fueled by the media/mob lynching.

A dead teenager with Zimmerman standing nearby in a backyard as reported by those lying cops?

[micrometers]

Originally Posted by HomerJS

Drug/alcohol test is a big fucking deal if it shows Z was impaired in any way. If the police were even handed in the investigation why did they test T? Were they looking for something on him only???

ANSWER THAT!!!!!!!

events leading up show that he likely was not impaired.

They did ballistics tests. LIkely tried to calculate entry wounds and number of shots fired. That is substantially most important.

[HomerJS]

Originally Posted by karmypolitics

the whole point of self-defense is to stop a potential savage beating.

The point of self defense is preventing harm whether a beeating or being stalked by a creepy stranger.

[Pens1566]

Originally Posted by karmypolitics

summary.

1. 911 call not profiling because a) he was suspicious of movement patterns b) unsure of subject's race until a third through the call and c) high percentage of black residents mean that being black in and of itself is not out of place.

2. he follows trayvon which is not a criminal act in and of itself.

1) I didn't mention profiling at all. Just that all the pro-Zimmerman posters were certain that he couldn't possibly be able to tell that Martin was black. Proven false by 911 call.

2) Didn't suggest it was criminal at all. Just that all the pro-Zimmerman posters were certain that he didn't follow him on foot and even went so far as to suggest he was pulled from the car by Martin. Proven false by 911 call.

[spidey07]

Originally Posted by Capt Caveman

His 911 call. He gets out of his car to pursue Martin who is running away from him. Stop posting crap.

Follow or keep an eye on does not equal chase. Stop posting lies.

[micrometers]

Originally Posted by Capt Caveman

His 911 call. He gets out of his car to pursue Martin who is running away from him. Stop posting crap.

well, the question is this: is such an act a crime? The answer AFAIKT is no.

at that point:

He did not threaten Trayvon with deadly force (i.e. point a gun at him)

did not yell anything threatening to Trayvon (i.e. I"m going to kill you)

[waggy]

Originally Posted by HomerJS

Drug/alcohol test is a big fucking deal if it shows Z was impaired in any way. If the police were even handed in the investigation why did they test T? Were they looking for something on him only???

ANSWER THAT!!!!!!!

from what i read its standard procedure to test if someone has died. BUT it is not procedure to test the shooter unless they are arrested.

personally i don't mind if both parties are tested.

[micrometers]

Originally Posted by HomerJS

The point of self defense is preventing harm whether a beeating or being stalked by a creepy stranger.

this is about an earlier point of someone asking why Zimmerman didn't have more serious injuries.

I agree that if T had managed to get the gun out of Z's hands and shoot him, he would have been justified.

[micrometers]

Originally Posted by Pens1566

1) I didn't mention profiling at all. Just that all the pro-Zimmerman posters were certain that he couldn't possibly be able to tell that Martin was black. Proven false by 911 call.

2) Didn't suggest it was criminal at all. Just that all the pro-Zimmerman posters were certain that he didn't follow him on foot and even went so far as to suggest he was pulled from the car by Martin. Proven false by 911 call.

Not me. And that was early on before all the facts were out.

[HomerJS]

Originally Posted by karmypolitics

events leading up show that he likely was not impaired.

They did ballistics tests. LIkely tried to calculate entry wounds and number of shots fired. That is substantially most important.

Then why was T tested and not Z? What events lead police to believe T was impaired??

If Z was impaired it would make its importance comparable to the ballistics test. If Z was impaired it could have made him paranoid about a completely innocent person walking down the street.

[Pens1566]

Originally Posted by spidey07

Follow or keep an eye on does not equal chase. Stop posting lies.

Holy shit. He admitted it on the call. Heavy breathing. Stop being dense. It only fuels the caricature.

[spidey07]

Originally Posted by HomerJS

The point of self defense is preventing harm whether a beeating or being stalked by a creepy stranger.

You don't get to use force on somebody not committing a crime like being followed by a NW who has every legal reason to be there.

You do get to use force when somebody is assaulting you (martin assaulting zimmerman is a felony).

[Pens1566]

Originally Posted by karmypolitics

Not me. And that was early on before all the facts were out.

Great, good for you. The point stands then. Once these two points were dismissed as incorrect, the goalposts moved. Like I pointed out originally.

[HomerJS]

Originally Posted by spidey07

You don't get to use force on somebody not committing a crime like being followed by a NW who has every legal reason to be there.

You do get to use force when somebody is assaulting you (martin assaulting zimmerman is a felony).

stalking is against the law. T felt his life was in danger and had the right to self defense. Phone call to girlfriend confirms.

Stalking is a term commonly used to refer to unwanted and obsessive attention by an individual or group to another person. Stalking behaviors are related to harassment and intimidation and may include following the victim in person and/or monitoring them

[Pens1566]

Originally Posted by spidey07

You don't get to use force on somebody not committing a crime like being followed by a NW who has every legal reason to be there.

You do get to use force when somebody is assaulting you (martin assaulting zimmerman is a felony).

I bet I (and most posters here) know why you won't apply that logic to the parties in reverse.

[micrometers]

Originally Posted by Pens1566

Holy shit. He admitted it on the call. Heavy breathing. Stop being dense. It only fuels the caricature.

a chase is not a criminal act under the law. ONly a provable criminal act leading up to the shooting can be grounds for invalidating "stand your ground"

[Londo_Jowo]

Originally Posted by HomerJS

Then why was T tested and not Z? What events lead police to believe T was impaired??

If Z was impaired it would make its importance comparable to the ballistics test. If Z was impaired it could have made him paranoid about a completely innocent person walking down the street.

I'm going to post this one more time..

http://communities.washingtontimes.c...legal-experts/

Mr. Zimmerman was not tested for drugs or alcohol. Trayvon Martin was.
Except for DUIs, police cannot test suspects for drugs or alcohol, unless the accused demands or consents to it, or they get a warrant. Trayvon Martin was tested for drugs and alcohol because it is the normal procedure of autopsies to determine the exact cause of death or contributing factors of death. The so-called law enforcement and legal experts who claim Zimmerman should have been tested demonstrate they have no expertise.

[Capt Caveman]

Originally Posted by spidey07

You don't get to use force on somebody not committing a crime like being followed by a NW who has every legal reason to be there.

You do get to use force when somebody is assaulting you (martin assaulting zimmerman is a felony).

Zimmerman grabbing Martin to stop him from running. Assault.

[Pens1566]

Originally Posted by karmypolitics

a chase is not a criminal act under the law. ONly a provable criminal act leading up to the shooting can be grounds for invalidating "stand your ground"

Again with the "criminal act" strawman. I'm not claiming that it was. Merely that Zimmerman did in fact get out of his own car and chase Martin.

[micrometers]

Originally Posted by Pens1566

Great, good for you. The point stands then. Once these two points were dismissed as incorrect, the goalposts moved. Like I pointed out originally.

I'm not talking about pro-Z posters. I'm talking about the Sanford PD's credibility. pay attention.

[Pens1566]

Originally Posted by karmypolitics

I'm not talking about pro-Z posters. I'm talking about the Sanford PD's credibility. pay attention.

Are you suggesting they didn't have access to their own 911 tape?