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Old 03-22-2012, 09:22 PM   #1326
Jhhnn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
If the legal system can throw dads who can't afford their kids in prison, they can find an appropriate solution for women who can't afford their kids.
It's called welfare.
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:23 PM   #1327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RampantAndroid View Post
Serious question: Why do you feel the need to post stuff like this in here? Do you think it'll get a reaction?
It just did.

This means you lose an internet.
Dec(RampantAndroid.Interenet);

Also, responding twice in a row instead of editing your post... Classy.



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The fundamental ethos of Christianity is tolerance, turning the other cheek, caring for those in need, etc., but that is not what today's Christianity is about. We can say we're about loving our neighbor until we're blue in the face, but unless our actions start matching our words, it's meaningless.
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:07 PM   #1328
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If you're against this then I really feel sorry for you. You're obviously of much lesser intelligence than the average human being.
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You act like the government knows more than anyone else. Our government is full of retards that know nothing.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:13 AM   #1329
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Originally Posted by Jhhnn View Post
It's called welfare.
That's a great non-solution. I was referring to a sensible approach instead of letting females free-load off the money of others.
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Old 03-23-2012, 03:13 AM   #1330
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Originally Posted by PhoKingGuy View Post
If you're against this then I really feel sorry for you. You're obviously of much lesser intelligence than the average human being.
I'm super slow and I'm against it.

So that's points for your side.

No idea what "it" is
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Old 03-23-2012, 05:50 AM   #1331
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Sry,

beating off to internet porn.

i'll get back to you tomorrow.
You murderer.
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:05 AM   #1332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Munky View Post
That's a great non-solution. I was referring to a sensible approach instead of letting females free-load off the money of others.
You referenced nothing other than misogyny & vaguely defined Libertopian fantasy. You have no reasonable alternative, which is why you propose none. While less frequent, women have been known to run off, abandon their children to the care of their father, who are every bit as eligible for welfare as women in the same situation.
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:40 PM   #1333
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Originally Posted by Jhhnn View Post
You referenced nothing other than misogyny & vaguely defined Libertopian fantasy. You have no reasonable alternative, which is why you propose none. While less frequent, women have been known to run off, abandon their children to the care of their father, who are every bit as eligible for welfare as women in the same situation.
I'm not getting paid to provide ideas for lazy politicians, but here's just a few alternatives they could consider:

1. The cost of the pregnancy can be divided between the male and the female responsible for it. In fact, she can already sue the male for child support, but somehow that's not good enough

2. If she's a minor, the cost of abortion can be covered by her parents.

3. If she's temporarily low on money, she could be provided a loan to cover the cost of abortion.

4. If she's a complete deadbeat with no job and no idea who the daddy is, she can have the Unplanned Parenthood abortion and do community service to pay back her debt to society.
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Old 03-23-2012, 09:18 PM   #1334
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Originally Posted by Munky View Post
I'm not getting paid to provide ideas for lazy politicians, but here's just a few alternatives they could consider:

1. The cost of the pregnancy can be divided between the male and the female responsible for it. In fact, she can already sue the male for child support, but somehow that's not good enough

2. If she's a minor, the cost of abortion can be covered by her parents.

3. If she's temporarily low on money, she could be provided a loan to cover the cost of abortion.

4. If she's a complete deadbeat with no job and no idea who the daddy is, she can have the Unplanned Parenthood abortion and do community service to pay back her debt to society.
So we can just go for forced abortions, right? Brilliant, in a jack booted authoritarian sort of way.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:07 PM   #1335
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My brother own three pharmacies and makes gross $6 on birth control.. barley worth doing with labels and staff. He makes $220 on ea Rush's Oxy prescription. I think we shouldnt pay for oxy. Sooo overpriced. But none is talking about that.
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Old 03-23-2012, 11:11 PM   #1336
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So we can just go for forced abortions, right? Brilliant, in a jack booted authoritarian sort of way.
Good idea, it should be an addendum to the forced healthcare payments. It is for the good of society, right? That means the fed gov should have the power to force people do engage in it.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:29 AM   #1337
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So we can just go for forced abortions, right? Brilliant, in a jack booted authoritarian sort of way.
In case you missed the PP numbers I linked to earlier, the majority of those unwanted pregnancies will be aborted anyways, by choice of the mother. None of my proposed solutions mandate abortions, but provide a way in which the mother can have one without being a burden on society.
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Old 03-24-2012, 03:42 AM   #1338
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Not having a child is a burden to society. Children are full of creative potential and not having them destroys such potential.
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The fundamental ethos of Christianity is tolerance, turning the other cheek, caring for those in need, etc., but that is not what today's Christianity is about. We can say we're about loving our neighbor until we're blue in the face, but unless our actions start matching our words, it's meaningless.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:22 AM   #1339
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In case you missed the PP numbers I linked to earlier, the majority of those unwanted pregnancies will be aborted anyways, by choice of the mother. ...
That is factually untrue, no many how many times you repeat it. Your emotional beliefs are trumped by actual data.
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:49 PM   #1340
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That is factually untrue, no many how many times you repeat it. Your emotional beliefs are trumped by actual data.
I'm still waiting for you to back up your so-called facts with evidence.
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Old 03-24-2012, 02:45 PM   #1341
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I'm still waiting for you to back up your so-called facts with evidence.
Excuse me sonny, but that's not how it works. You don't get to pull random claims out of your butt, based on what you feel should be true, and then demand we refute them. You made the claim. You back it up ... or man up and admit you were wrong.

You started with one actual piece of data: Planned Parenthood performed 330K abortions. You then assumed that must also be somewhere near the number of planned pregnancies, apparently based on your feelings about what should be true. You then declared, as fact, that "That means the overwhelming majority of pregnancies the provider covers are planned pregnancies ..." Here's the problem: you were wrong. You grossly under-guessed the number of unplanned pregnancies each year. That destroyed your whole argument, your feelings notwithstanding.

An intelligent, reasoning person would see this data, recognize it didn't match his emotional beliefs, and adjust them accordingly. Not you. You just dug in and kept pushing the same nonsense, twisting and spinning frantically to try to hide your errors. Sorry, didn't work. You're still wrong.

So, all that said, I know you're not about to look into the actual data around pregnancies and abortion. You want to believe what you feel must be, and the last thing you want is data that challenges you. Tough. Here's that data you wish weren't true:
Quote:
Of the 6.4 million pregnancies in the United States in 2001, 4.0 million resulted in births, 1.3 million in abortions and 1.1 million in fetal losses. The proportions of pregnancies that were intended (51%) and unintended (49%) were almost identical (Figure 1). Of the 3.1 million unintended pregnancies, 44% ended in births, 42% in abortions and 14% in fetal losses; these accounted for 22%, 20% and 7% of all pregnancies, respectively. Of the 3.3 million intended pregnancies, 80% (representing 41% of all pregnancies) resulted in births; the remainder resulted in fetal losses.
From the CDC at: http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealt...tats/index.htm

Pulled from this report, linked at the CDC site: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3809006.pdf

This is where you should admit you erred and walk away.
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Old 03-24-2012, 05:11 PM   #1342
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Excuse me sonny, but that's not how it works. You don't get to pull random claims out of your butt, based on what you feel should be true, and then demand we refute them. You made the claim. You back it up ... or man up and admit you were wrong.

You started with one actual piece of data: Planned Parenthood performed 330K abortions. You then assumed that must also be somewhere near the number of planned pregnancies, apparently based on your feelings about what should be true. You then declared, as fact, that "That means the overwhelming majority of pregnancies the provider covers are planned pregnancies ..." Here's the problem: you were wrong. You grossly under-guessed the number of unplanned pregnancies each year. That destroyed your whole argument, your feelings notwithstanding.

An intelligent, reasoning person would see this data, recognize it didn't match his emotional beliefs, and adjust them accordingly. Not you. You just dug in and kept pushing the same nonsense, twisting and spinning frantically to try to hide your errors. Sorry, didn't work. You're still wrong.

So, all that said, I know you're not about to look into the actual data around pregnancies and abortion. You want to believe what you feel must be, and the last thing you want is data that challenges you. Tough. Here's that data you wish weren't true:


From the CDC at: http://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealt...tats/index.htm

Pulled from this report, linked at the CDC site: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3809006.pdf

This is where you should admit you erred and walk away.
You're starting off with reading comprehension fail, son. My link to PP numbers were to show an estimated percentage of unwanted pregnancies ending in abortion, as opposed to those ending in birth and adoption. Granted, it's only dealing within the scope of PP, but it's a large sample of data, and it deals specifically with "free" tax payer sponsored services, such as those the government loves to promise in exchange for votes.

Secondly, let's be clear about the distinction between unwanted pregnancies and unplanned pregnancies. Unplanned pregnancies are not limited to broke single females, but can happen to any fertile female engaging in sex, including those with a stable job and a stable relationship, and including those who are already using contraception. If under such circumstances the female willingly chooses to carry the pregnancy to full term and have the kid as usual, then she is responsible for providing for that kid, and calling it "unwanted" is a long stretch at best.

And thirdly, despite all the liberal socialist and feminist claims that tax payer funded contraception and abortions are saving us money, let's examine what actually happened when the 1970's led to a rise of female empowerment and strong, independent women -
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...817181646.html

What happened is there was a huge increase in the number of single moms, along with a drop in marriage. The pursuit of a liberal socialist utopia is merely enabling women to pop out kids with little regard for the cost and consequences of their choices.
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Last edited by Munky; 03-24-2012 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:27 PM   #1343
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That's exactly what I expected. You are incapable of admitting error, so you huff and puff wave your hands, hoping nobody notices you're trying to shift the goalposts ... again.

You're a waste of electrons. Buh bye.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:45 PM   #1344
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You should just give up instead of painting yourself into a corner.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:38 PM   #1345
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I am a waste of corner electrons.
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The fundamental ethos of Christianity is tolerance, turning the other cheek, caring for those in need, etc., but that is not what today's Christianity is about. We can say we're about loving our neighbor until we're blue in the face, but unless our actions start matching our words, it's meaningless.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:29 AM   #1346
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A pro life article from the left, just my 2 cents

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The reasons women give for aborting are, for the most part, economic. The vast majority of women named interference with jobor school, or being unable to afford a baby, as a reason for choosing abortion. These reasons are far from trivial -- in fact, most women do not choose abortion for reasons of 'convenience', reguardless of popular opinion. Most women choose abortion because they feel they have no other option.

Our society punishes women for becoming mothers. A woman with a child has special needs -- needs that the educational and working worlds are unwilling to meet. Childcare is inadequate, and ridiculously expensive. Few jobs offer the sort of flexible scheduling that a new mother needs. The academic world makes few exceptions for a woman trying to be a student and a mother. For a woman working a job that barely pays the bills, a job that she knows she will loose if she must be continually taking time off to care for a child, a job that could never pay for daycare, what choice is there but abortion? For a college student halfway through her education, with thousands of dollars of debt from loans and no way to pay them back unless she finishes that education, and little chance of finishing that education as a mother -- is there really any 'choice' involved?

Clearly, in today's world, motherhood is simply not an option for some women. So, should a feminist support a woman's right to abortion?

Of course not.

To respond to society's blatant prejudice against mothers, especially single mothers, by giving women a way out of motherhood is to accept that prejudice. Abortion does not liberate women. It makes certain that society doesn't really ever have to adapt to women's needs. It means accepting that a woman cannot have a successful career, and care properly for her children. I means accepting that abortion isn't really a choice, for a woman on the verge of poverty, but a necessity -- accepting that our society forces a woman to choose between her economic survival and her child's life.

True feminism calls for true reform. A true feminist demands that women have the tools they need to succeed financially and socially and be mothers as well -- inexpensive, readily available childcare, a workplace or school that acknowledges the needs of mothers, including flexible scheduling and maternity leave, and welfare that actually works towards re-intergrating a woman into the workforce. If all this were accomplished -- if women were truly respected, and had true equality -- abortion would be unnecessary.

Therefore, rather than demanding the dubious 'right' of a woman to kill her offspring in order to fit into a patriachal world, feminists should be working to change that world. We should be demanding that women be respected, rather than punished, for being mothers.
http://slv80.tripod.com/prowoman.html
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Old 03-26-2012, 01:13 PM   #1347
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The solution is simple. Just like they have in other countries, they should provide state sponsored day care for working mothers. You reduce the financial burden and increase the available work hours for a new mother, you get a better chance they will NOT abort (not great, mind you. Pregnancy is a tough thing for all but that mom of 19 and those like her).

You need to encourage this to be used properly, though, as the abusers of the system might just use it to keep Jr out of their hair while they "work" at 'Empire city' slots for a few hours a day. :p

But this is drifting off topic again. Rush just wants to pay full price for the birth control pills he takes. I say let him.


Quote:
An intelligent, reasoning person would see this data, recognize it didn't match his emotional beliefs, and adjust them accordingly. Not you. You just dug in and kept pushing the same nonsense, twisting and spinning frantically to try to hide your errors. Sorry, didn't work. You're still wrong.
Munky see.
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Old 03-26-2012, 03:42 PM   #1348
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Just FYI, Mark Steyn filled in for Rush at least one day last week. He said Rush had suspended himself for his outrageous decision to continue associating with himself.

I laughed.
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:58 PM   #1349
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Munky see.
Munky doo-doo.
Shouldn't you be busy blocking people like a sensitive two-year old who gets offended easily?
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