Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Social > The Garage

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-29-2012, 10:47 AM   #26
SpatiallyAware
Lifer
 
SpatiallyAware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,958
Default

Tons of misinformation in this thread, although the laws vary state-to-state.


For most places in the US, the only thing REQUIRED is insurance (either a policy for the car or you may be covered under your existing policy). However, if the LEO is a jerk the car itself could be impounded. If you have a signed/dated bill of sale (sort of sketchy to do in your situation) then most states will allow that.



That being said, with car/motorcycle sales if it feels weird it IS weird.

Keep in mind that a vehicle stolen from a few states away might not show up as stolen in your state... So you could have it inspected (even by a LEO), seller signs a fake out of state title, you give him money, you take it to dmv/tag office and they impound your car and leave you with nothing.

The fact that this guy won't meet you to pickup the car is a huge STOLEN and/or title issue flag, in my opinion. He does not want to be there if you have a cop come out and determine the car is stolen. Let me guess, he lives with his mom/gf/someone else too right?



No kidding... run from this one. The options you want will come up again, just be patient.
SpatiallyAware is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 11:10 AM   #27
exar333
Diamond Member
 
exar333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbrdphreak View Post
Jesus, you can drive a car for a few minutes even if it has no plates. Even if you got the biggest stickler officer out there, the judge or ADA would just throw the case out once you explain.

Plates and insurance don't matter. I could turn in the plates and cancel the insurance on my 3rd car right now and turn around and sell it. What's wrong with that?

You need to see a physical copy of the title, showing he owns it free & clear. Nothing else really matters.
This. Walk away quickly if there is no clean title.
__________________
My Cars:
-2011 DGM WRX Limited
My Rig:
4670K @ 4.0 Ghz w/ CM 212
EVGA GTX 970 SC @ 1501/7780
3440x1440 LG 34UM95 QHD Display
exar333 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 11:47 AM   #28
Jeffg010
Diamond Member
 
Jeffg010's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,236
Default

Title is the key to all of this. My brother in law owns a junk yard and only had a salvage license at the time. He bought a truck off someone that pulled into his junkyard. This guy did not have a title. The real owner was a friend of the guy that sold the truck to my brother in law. The shit hit the fan and the real owner was taking him to court and he was facing losing his salvage license. He ended up calling the real owner asked him what it would take to drop all of this. He ended up playing $500 to him to make this go away. At the time my brother in law was 6 months into his junkyard business and learned the hard way. If someone does not have a title he just walks.

Also my brother in law now has a dealer license and it became 100 times easier because he has a dealer plate he can stick on and just drive away. Most dealers will put on a temp tag for you but if not you will need to hull it away yourself.
Jeffg010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 02:07 PM   #29
SpatiallyAware
Lifer
 
SpatiallyAware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffg010 View Post
Title is the key to all of this. My brother in law owns a junk yard and only had a salvage license at the time. He bought a truck off someone that pulled into his junkyard. This guy did not have a title. The real owner was a friend of the guy that sold the truck to my brother in law. The shit hit the fan and the real owner was taking him to court and he was facing losing his salvage license. He ended up calling the real owner asked him what it would take to drop all of this. He ended up playing $500 to him to make this go away. At the time my brother in law was 6 months into his junkyard business and learned the hard way. If someone does not have a title he just walks.

Also my brother in law now has a dealer license and it became 100 times easier because he has a dealer plate he can stick on and just drive away. Most dealers will put on a temp tag for you but if not you will need to hull it away yourself.


There are lots of fake titles out there. Just because someone has a title, with a vin that matches the car, and you call the state to check does not mean it's 100% legit. I have personally seen a fake title on a stolen motorcycle, and have dealt with 5-6 sketch title situations and they are a huge huge PITA. For a junkyard or dealer you just have to show due diligence, so they don't care so much with fake titles. When it's your $11k cash on the line it's a whole different matter.



IMHO your gut instinct is your best friend with these situations. The fact that the guy is hesitant to meet you FOR ANY REASON is a huge red flag. People wanting to do $10k deals in parking lots are huge red flags.

No plate means it sat or was likely transferred from another state.

The whole thing just reeks.
SpatiallyAware is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 02:34 PM   #30
Insomniator
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: jersey
Posts: 5,145
Default

Nah I met the guy the first time on saturday when I first went to look at the car. I just haven't been able to get my mechanic out to see the car this week -- and he said i REALLY shouldn't put my own plates on there for the 20 min drive to his place.

I know the guy lives at this house and has paid his taxes (thanks to the internets), trying to figure out his FB page now.
Insomniator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 03:06 PM   #31
exar333
Diamond Member
 
exar333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 6,641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpatiallyAware View Post
There are lots of fake titles out there. Just because someone has a title, with a vin that matches the car, and you call the state to check does not mean it's 100% legit. I have personally seen a fake title on a stolen motorcycle, and have dealt with 5-6 sketch title situations and they are a huge huge PITA. For a junkyard or dealer you just have to show due diligence, so they don't care so much with fake titles. When it's your $11k cash on the line it's a whole different matter.



IMHO your gut instinct is your best friend with these situations. The fact that the guy is hesitant to meet you FOR ANY REASON is a huge red flag. People wanting to do $10k deals in parking lots are huge red flags.

No plate means it sat or was likely transferred from another state.

The whole thing just reeks.
(sorry - a little off-topic here)

What is a good way to validate if the title is legit or not? Would be good information to know...
__________________
My Cars:
-2011 DGM WRX Limited
My Rig:
4670K @ 4.0 Ghz w/ CM 212
EVGA GTX 970 SC @ 1501/7780
3440x1440 LG 34UM95 QHD Display
exar333 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 09:53 PM   #32
Insomniator
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: jersey
Posts: 5,145
Default

Well he has the title, still in the previous owners name. Some internet research showed JP morgan has a lein on the title still -- so I told him to find out if this car is actually paid off or not.

Other than that, threw my plate on the back and made it 7 miles to the mechanic safely! Needs some front end work, just like all mini's...

If this lein is gone and just a relic then its time to make a deal!!!!!
Insomniator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 10:18 PM   #33
Bignate603
Lifer
 
Bignate603's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 13,900
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniator View Post
Well he has the title, still in the previous owners name. Some internet research showed JP morgan has a lein on the title still -- so I told him to find out if this car is actually paid off or not.

Other than that, threw my plate on the back and made it 7 miles to the mechanic safely! Needs some front end work, just like all mini's...

If this lein is gone and just a relic then its time to make a deal!!!!!
No, it's not time to make a deal. The title is in the previous owner's name, not the guy you're buying it from. He doesn't own the car just because he has the piece of paper. Unless the guy you're buying it from can show you that he legally owns the car you shouldn't touch this car.
__________________
Ugly can be fixed,stupid is forever.
AnandTech Moderator
Bignate603 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 11:10 PM   #34
DominionSeraph
Diamond Member
 
DominionSeraph's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Equestria
Posts: 8,247
Default

^^^ what he said.
__________________
Danse De Raven

"P&N: Not Quite as Bad as Stormfront"
DominionSeraph is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 11:32 PM   #35
SparkyJJO
Lifer
 
SparkyJJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,216
Default

Run. Away. Now.
__________________
Heatware

CO2 is evil. Stop breathing

"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money that you've earned, but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." - Thomas Sowell
SparkyJJO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 12:40 AM   #36
Eli
Super Moderator
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 50,005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniator View Post
Well he has the title, still in the previous owners name. Some internet research showed JP morgan has a lein on the title still -- so I told him to find out if this car is actually paid off or not.

Other than that, threw my plate on the back and made it 7 miles to the mechanic safely! Needs some front end work, just like all mini's...

If this lein is gone and just a relic then its time to make a deal!!!!!
Um... Yeah, no. Run away.
__________________
http://www.bumblebeebatteries.com

2001 Honda Insight 5MT, MIMA #163P - 158,388 miles and counting as of 7/2011
Best Trip - 82.0MPG over 1200 miles
2001 Honda Insight 5MT - 450,000 miles and counting as of 2/2012 (Fiancee's)
Best Trip - 92.4MPG over 400 miles
2000 Honda Insight 5MT, MIMA #173P, BCM Gauge, OBDIIC&C Gauge, Upgraded 8Ah battery - 227,248 miles and counting as of 10/2011
Best Trip - 83.1mpg over 458mi
Eli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 07:56 AM   #37
Insomniator
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: jersey
Posts: 5,145
Default

Why is this such a big deal? What is he gonna do, take my money and have the PO report the car as stolen?

We've been in contact with the PO maybe he can just transfer ownership to me directly.

Apparently the PO signed the back of the title and left the buyer part blank. According to this http://www.nj.gov/mvc/Vehicle/TransferringVehicle.htm, I can't tell if this is legal or not.

Last edited by Insomniator; 03-02-2012 at 08:02 AM.
Insomniator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:04 AM   #38
SpatiallyAware
Lifer
 
SpatiallyAware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniator View Post
Well he has the title, still in the previous owners name. Some internet research showed JP morgan has a lein on the title still -- so I told him to find out if this car is actually paid off or not.

Other than that, threw my plate on the back and made it 7 miles to the mechanic safely! Needs some front end work, just like all mini's...

If this lein is gone and just a relic then its time to make a deal!!!!!

Heh, like we didn't see this coming, right?



Even with the lien gone, that guy DOES NOT have the right to sell the car. It is VERY possible that you could buy this and NEVER be able to register it at best, and at worst it will eventually show up stolen and get seized by the lienholder or previous owner.


Most likely the (shady) seller bought this for pennies on the dollar from a buddy because it was going to get repo'd. He drove it on a bill of sale, probably got a ticket, and is now trying to dump it on someone else.



It is NOT legal (probably in any state but definitely any that I've done business in) for the guy to leave the seller part blank. IF you sign that, and try to register it, it is VERY likely that you're receiving stolen property. At the very least you're participating in tax evasion.

Seriously... You are completely wasting your time with this. I PROMISE you that the car isn't paid off or the previous owner would've transferred the title before selling. These shady situations are NEVER innocent.

Like I said, just because the VIN isn't flagged as stolen with your particular state (and that's all the LEO is doing, checking to see if it's stolen) does NOT mean you can register the car and all is legit.






In short, like we all have said since the beginnning, RUN. It is not worth saving $2k to risk an $11k purchase.
SpatiallyAware is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:06 AM   #39
waggy
No Lifer
 
waggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 64,393
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniator View Post
Why is this such a big deal? What is he gonna do, take my money and have the PO report the car as stolen?

We've been in contact with the PO maybe he can just transfer ownership to me directly.

Apparently the PO signed the back of the title and left the buyer part blank. According to this http://www.nj.gov/mvc/Vehicle/TransferringVehicle.htm, I can't tell if this is legal or not.
Why is it a big deal? the guy you are buying the car from does not own it. even though the owner signed it.

though the odds on anything negative happening are slim. just take the title and have it transferred to your name. I wouldn't take the damn chance.
waggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:06 AM   #40
SpatiallyAware
Lifer
 
SpatiallyAware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniator View Post
Why is this such a big deal? What is he gonna do, take my money and have the PO report the car as stolen?

We've been in contact with the PO maybe he can just transfer ownership to me directly.

Apparently the PO signed the back of the title and left the buyer part blank. According to this http://www.nj.gov/mvc/Vehicle/TransferringVehicle.htm, I can't tell if this is legal or not.

First off, none of this will happen with a lienholder on the title - period end of story.


Even if it was magically paid off and the person never received the 'new' title, this still means the current title is not legit.

Even if it was magically paid off and you could somehow obtain the title, it WILL be in the original owners name - who you, and this guy, do not know.


Even if you got to that point (you won't) you would still have to forge the original owner's signature, illegally register it in your name, and who knows if someone will end up looking for the car (this is STILL possible)





So BEST CASE scenario is still risky. This is an $11k risk, just pay $13k and get one without all this BS.
SpatiallyAware is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:07 AM   #41
SpatiallyAware
Lifer
 
SpatiallyAware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waggy View Post
Why is it a big deal? the guy you are buying the car from does not own it. even though the owner signed it.

though the odds on anything negative happening are slim. just take the title and have it transferred to your name. I wouldn't take the damn chance.

This title has a lien on it. He would have to get a new title (still in original owner's name) and forge the seller's signature (since the guy he's giving money to isn't even the owner) and then hope the original owner doesn't somehow find out and try to get the car back.
SpatiallyAware is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:14 AM   #42
Insomniator
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: jersey
Posts: 5,145
Default

Wouldn't the new title go to the PO if one is needed, since neither me nor this shady guy have any real connection to the car yet?

At this point I don't care if I don't buy the car I'm more interested in what the hell is actually going on.
Insomniator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:24 AM   #43
HarryLui
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,253
Default

You already answer the question yourself.

Quote:
Well he has the title, still in the previous owners name. Some internet research showed JP morgan has a lein on the title still --

JP Morgan is the real owner of this car. Car is on the urge of being repossession due to lack of payment. PO and seller hid the car to prevent repossession (thus no plate, no insurance, no registration), and waiting for a fool to show up with 11k.
__________________
85 GLH
94 855

My Heatware
HarryLui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:25 AM   #44
SpatiallyAware
Lifer
 
SpatiallyAware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,958
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniator View Post
Wouldn't the new title go to the PO if one is needed, since neither me nor this shady guy have any real connection to the car yet?

At this point I don't care if I don't buy the car I'm more interested in what the hell is actually going on.
Yes, the title would be mailed to the address on file for the previous owner.


If you know someone at your tag office they sometimes let this stuff slide (IE just hand you the title rather than mail) if they know it's legit.


No offense, but your situation is very clearly sketch and the tag office is not going to do a thing once they see a lien (again, stolen or not is a separate issue)


Edit:
And like I said, my bet is that the car was supposed to get repossessed. The original owner probably sold it to a 'friend in need' with the direction to drive the car on a written dated bill of sale (you can get insurance and do this legally.. even though the car isn't in his name, as most states give you a 30 day grace period to do a title transfer).


However, the guy probably got a ticket for having an out of date bill of sale and can't drive it anymore. He's trying to make a quick buck on an unsuspecting person, or sell it to a 'thug' who will do the same thing he did. My bet is this guy you're dealing with paid like $500 for the car, if that, and is trying to scam his way out of it.

Last edited by SpatiallyAware; 03-02-2012 at 09:28 AM.
SpatiallyAware is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:39 AM   #45
Insomniator
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: jersey
Posts: 5,145
Default

OK so lets say this is all a total scam job. Until I give him money nothing bad can happen so can't I just keep going until either they give up or I find out somehow its legit?

The last contact I had with the guy was me telling him there is a lein on the title, and the bank wouldn't tell me if it was still in effect due to privacy issues. I told him have the PO call the bank and release the info to me. He got back to me saying the guy will call, release the info, and fax a copy of the letter from the bank to me.

I guess the bigger question is, what has to happen for me to confirm this is legit? Do I need to meet up with the PO, go to a DMV and literally sort it out together?

I must say though that I bet very few people would have actually found out a lot of the info I had and this whole situation does sound like some kind of scam.
Insomniator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:52 AM   #46
HarryLui
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,253
Default

Do what you want, just don't hand over the money, not ever for this car.
__________________
85 GLH
94 855

My Heatware
HarryLui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 09:54 AM   #47
SpatiallyAware
Lifer
 
SpatiallyAware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 12,958
Default

So all the guy has agreed to do is release to give you more info? Man this is such a waste of time... It really is.. Clearly someone owes money on that car. It definitely has not been paid in awhile.

Even IF you could get the bank to work something out, it will not be with you at all. The PO will have to do the footwork, and if that happens I promise he's going to keep the car (although it won't happen, because there is not ANY non-sketchy reason for this other guy to be selling the car at a discount if this could all be settled up with a phone call)


This is a total waste of time, I promise you. Either way good luck, keep us updated.
SpatiallyAware is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 10:03 AM   #48
Ferzerp
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,267
Default

Why are people so desperate for a "deal" that they lose all sorts of reasoning skills?

We had another guy a few months back posting a thread about trying to buy a car from someone with a title in a 3rd party's name.

We've told you why you're being scammed, but you keep trying to make excuses for this scammer in your head. Just walk away. It is not legitimate. There are plenty of other cars out there that you can buy legally instead of giving some random individual money for a car he does not own.

You could, of course, call JP Morgan and tell them where their car is sitting if you really wanted to. I'm sure they'd be glad to get it back.
Ferzerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 10:06 AM   #49
Gibson486
Lifer
 
Gibson486's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 18,380
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlee View Post
Perhaps in some states, but certainly not everywhere. If you're buying from a dealer, they often will issue a temporary plate. Not all states allow dealers to do that, so when I bought my Forester in MA I had to get a temporary plate from NH DMV before I went down to get the car.
Yeah, in MA, it's no plates, no drive. You have to get the plates before hand and before you get the plates, you have to have the car insured. Most people are oblivious to it because they usually have the car dealer get the plates for them.
__________________
Well, now I am going to be flamed out of existance.

There's your sugar...and there's your culture.

"Getting enough idiots together to demonstrate consensus on a ludicrous idea in order to help justify it is for Congress not real life... "-MWilding

Gibson486 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 10:15 AM   #50
Insomniator
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: jersey
Posts: 5,145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferzerp View Post
Why are people so desperate for a "deal" that they lose all sorts of reasoning skills?

We had another guy a few months back posting a thread about trying to buy a car from someone with a title in a 3rd party's name.

We've told you why you're being scammed, but you keep trying to make excuses for this scammer in your head. Just walk away. It is not legitimate. There are plenty of other cars out there that you can buy legally instead of giving some random individual money for a car he does not own.

You could, of course, call JP Morgan and tell them where their car is sitting if you really wanted to. I'm sure they'd be glad to get it back.
I haven't lost all my reasoning skills. I have time to play this out, haven't given him any money yet and am learning more and more about this process (never bought any car, used or new before). I am curious to see how this ends.

Yes there are plenty of cars out there no doubt, but I like this particular one and there is no reason to go as far as possible to find out if its legit or not.
Insomniator is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.