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Old 01-21-2012, 03:40 PM   #1
grandpaflo
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Lightbulb TorMail.net - best free encrypted mail service yet

Tor Mail works well it's more secure than SSL:

http://jhiwjjlqpyawmpjx.onion/

In order to load the site you need Tor installed, but that is trivial. It's not related to the official Tor Project.

Quick signup, free, no strings.

You can visit Tormail.net without Tor to view more information.

* Tor: https://www.torproject.org/

If you use it please post here to this thread with your feelings.

Last edited by allisolm; 04-13-2012 at 02:36 PM. Reason: old thread that didn't belong in OT anyway
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:46 PM   #2
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What's up with a sudden explosion of spam? Did AT site join tech association or something?
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Old 01-21-2012, 03:55 PM   #3
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jhiwjjlqpyawmpjx.onion

Sounds legit.
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:02 PM   #4
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Exclamation

Hi, it's certainly not spam!

Nor do I have a history of posting spam here! I was merely recommending a free email service without ads or payment involved, as an alternative to Gmail and other sites like it. If you see ANYTHING on that site which asks for $$ or displays ads, I'll buy you a pony.

"Sounds legit."

It is, and it's explained here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.onion

A small quote from the wikipedia link: ".onion is a pseudo-top-level domain host suffix (similar in concept to such endings as .bitnet and .uucp used in earlier times) designating an anonymous hidden service reachable via the Tor network. Such addresses are not actual DNS names, and the .onion TLD is not in the Internet DNS root, but with the appropriate proxy software installed, Internet programs such as Web browsers can access sites with .onion addresses by sending the request through the network of Tor servers. The purpose of using such a system is to make both the information provider and the person accessing the information more difficult to trace, whether by one another, by an intermediate network host, or by an outsider."

Google and Wikipedia are wonderful things!

"Reported"

Thanks a lot. If you read my posting history, you'll see the merit in my contributions.

Last edited by grandpaflo; 01-21-2012 at 04:08 PM. Reason: geeky definition
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpaflo View Post
Hi, it's certainly not spam! Nor do I have a history of posting spam here! I was merely recommending a free email service without ads or payment involved, as an alternative to Gmail and other sites like it. If you see ANYTHING on that site which asks for $$ or displays ads, I'll buy you a pony.
Reported.
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Old 01-21-2012, 04:53 PM   #6
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Valuable service. How is it supported?
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:07 PM   #7
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Interesting. Need more info about who's offering it.
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpaflo View Post
Hi, it's certainly not spam!

Nor do I have a history of posting spam here! I was merely recommending a free email service without ads or payment involved, as an alternative to Gmail and other sites like it. If you see ANYTHING on that site which asks for $$ or displays ads, I'll buy you a pony.
So they're doing it out of the goodness of their hearts? Sorry, I don't buy it. All the free email service providers have to have some sort of way to bring in money, most do it by ads. If this one doesn't have any obvious way of making money then I'm seriously concerned about what they're doing to pay for the server space and support.
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Old 01-21-2012, 05:17 PM   #9
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I really can't believe not a single person in this thread has the slightest clue about tor or onion, other than the OP. I thought AT is a tech site/forum.

Regardless, I personally wouldn't trust a tor/onion email service, and that's for both the anonymous aspect and the security of the emails/data.

Also, I can't imagine the nodes (or tormail.net servers) wouldn't be blacklisted by every smtp server and spam filter out there in a month, tops.

Last edited by Lifted; 01-21-2012 at 05:19 PM.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:37 PM   #10
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Lightbulb

If you know anything about Tor and exit nodes, papers and news articles have well documented the sniffing and logging activity of some sinister exit nodes, you'd know when using Tor *not* to use it for/with anything personal.

Bruce Schneier recently posted an entry to his blog about Tor OPSEC. I suggest anyone interested in using Tor, read it:

Tor Opsec: Good operational security guide to Tor.
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archive...tor_opsec.html
http://cryptome.org/0005/tor-opsec.htm


I never suggested to use Tormail.net (which is not related to the official Tor project) or Tor for anything personal! If you know anything about Tor you know it's not to be used for personal activities. Tormail.net provides a more secure way, via an .onion hidden service for e-mail, which every party in the communication should use GPG:

- Windows: http://www.gpg4win.org/
- *nix: http://www.gnupg.org/


Compare it with other free e-mail services, many require cookies enabled, or flash, or javascript, contain advertisements, spyware, machines or people reading your mail, sessions not SSL all the way through, cookie spills even when you have an encrypted connection (Gmail, for one), and more attacks. I do not trust any of them and neither should you, nor should you trust *any* free e-mail provider for *anything*. You and your data *are* the product.

Anyone mentioning Hushmail should be laughed at at length.

Regarding personal e-mail, when you're *not* using Tor, unless you run your own mail server and encrypt everything, you're setting yourself up for possible compromise anyway, either through hackers, in-house disgruntled workers, "data dumps" which are usually blamed on hackers but not always the case (what better way to obtain information when you're a government than for an "accidental" database spill?).

In my opinion, If you're using a proprietary operating system (Windows/Mac OSX) you're not concerned about privacy and security anyway. Do you have access to the code? No. Windows XP alone had and continues to have dozens upon dozens of complete takeover, remote exploitable holes which were open for YEARS. Read the updates, it's all there in black and white, pre-SP1 all the way to this day, and Windows 7 has them, too, all of them do/have from my accounting.

If you're using Windows you're probably placing your trust in proprietary scanners and allowing them access to all of your files, some of the programs using the cloud to announce all of your files. In my opinion, programs and operating systems are closed source for one reason: to conceal backdoors. I believe many of these backdoors planted in software are eventually discovered by hackers and researchers and patched as "remote holes", but I say this with a tinfoil beanie.

Some good reading material:

"Reflections on Trusting Trust

Ken Thompson's Reflections on Trusting Trust, his Turing Award acceptance speech in 1984, was the first major paper to describe black box backdoor issues, and points out that trust is relative. It describes a very clever backdoor mechanism based on the fact that people only review source (human-written) code, and not compiled machine code. A program called a compiler is used to create the second from the first, and the compiler is usually trusted to do an honest job." -- continued at:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflec...Trusting_Trust

Use it or don't use it, but if you're Tor savvy you can appreciate it on some level, vs. the alternatives, many of which do not allow you to send e-mail but only receive it.

Show me a better and easier to use free e-mail service to use Tor with, I'm all eyes and ears.
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:56 PM   #11
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Not free, but very reasonable to get the security(free versions don't offer encrypted storage). Pay special attention to the secure mail storage section, and read the white paper.

I don't currently use them, but I'm strongly considering it. With all the nonsense going on in this country, I think it's prudent to pull away from Google, and other large no cost services.

http://lavabit.com/features.html
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:10 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandpaflo View Post
I never suggested to use Tormail.net (which is not related to the official Tor project) or Tor for anything personal! If you know anything about Tor you know it's not to be used for personal activities. Tormail.net provides a more secure way, via an .onion hidden service for e-mail, which every party in the communication should use GPG:
If you shouldn't use it for personal things what good is it?
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Old 01-21-2012, 08:13 PM   #13
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You want a secure email so it protects my most intimate personal info.

Then you say don't use it for personal info.

Then why do I need this email?
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Old 01-22-2012, 05:55 PM   #14
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Lightbulb Fight Club = CIA?

@lxskllr:

"http://lavabit.com"

Thank you, but they have been known to ban Tor exit nodes and trying to dance around their exit nodes ban is not worth attemps to use it. Now and then they have even had periods of time, a month or more, where they would not allow new signups. I've heard they also require javascript, which is a no-no when using Tor, so with this data, they're out as an option with Tor. Tormail.net has the option of no Javascript.

The only other Tor/mail option I've seen is safe-mail.net. But they have a policy you have to agree to that clearly states you will not mask your origin of transit, so unless you want the possibility, however remote, of being dragged to a court in Israel, I'd advise against it.

@Bignate603:

"If you shouldn't use it for personal things what good is it? "

If you don't use Tor, if you don't understand the uses behind Tor, then it's probably not for you.

@Zeze:

"You want a secure email so it protects my most intimate personal info."

I never said this.

"Then you say don't use it for personal info."

I should have been more clear in my OP, sorry, I assumed most people here were familiar with Tor and Tor OPSEC.

"Then why do I need this email?"

If you don't use Tor, if you don't understand the uses behind Tor, then it's probably not for you.

Now that I've been crystal clear, please, everyone, no more posts saying, "Why do I need this?" Such posts would be as brilliant as a person walking into a store, eyeballing a product, and yelling out loud, "Why do I need this?"

My larger post discussing the technology in brief along with Google and Tor's own official site contain enough information for you and others to make informed decisions. Thank you.

@Lifted:

"I really can't believe not a single person in this thread has the slightest clue about tor or onion, other than the OP. I thought AT is a tech site/forum."

Agreed, boggled my mind, but now the knowledge has been spread. Happy New Year to all at AnandTech!
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Old 01-22-2012, 06:47 PM   #15
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Why do I need this?
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:03 PM   #16
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Why do I need this?
Are you a pedo-terrorist-conspiracy nut? No? You probably don't.
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Old 01-22-2012, 07:19 PM   #17
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Somebody needs to tell al981 about this.
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Old 01-22-2012, 09:47 PM   #18
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Maybe you should have posted it in security and not in Off Topic.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:21 AM   #19
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I often lurk anandtech for the off topic section, but searching for something more specific I stumbled on this thread and I have to say it's quite sad that this forum is supposed to attract 'tech' people and instead is flooded with unknowing sheep like several posters above.

Tor is one of, if not the, most popular proxy programs. Tor Mail is a shoot off made by someone for the same purpose but for email, remaining anonymous while sending and receiving emails. It's not meant to be a personal email service. Most knowledgeable tech people that live around the gray line already have proxy networks setup, but Tor is nice that it can be run from a usb card as well.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:30 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrdict View Post
I often lurk anandtech for the off topic section, but searching for something more specific I stumbled on this thread and I have to say it's quite sad that this forum is supposed to attract 'tech' people and instead is flooded with unknowing sheep like several posters above.

Tor is one of, if not the, most popular proxy programs. Tor Mail is a shoot off made by someone for the same purpose but for email, remaining anonymous while sending and receiving emails. It's not meant to be a personal email service. Most knowledgeable tech people that live around the gray line already have proxy networks setup, but Tor is nice that it can be run from a usb card as well.

Tor isn't perfect so if you think you NEED Tor you probably are doing something you shouldn't be anyway

And 3 month necro i guess...oh well
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:43 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrdict View Post
I often lurk anandtech for the off topic section, but searching for something more specific I stumbled on this thread and I have to say it's quite sad that this forum is supposed to attract 'tech' people and instead is flooded with unknowing sheep like several posters above.

Tor is one of, if not the, most popular proxy programs. Tor Mail is a shoot off made by someone for the same purpose but for email, remaining anonymous while sending and receiving emails. It's not meant to be a personal email service. Most knowledgeable tech people that live around the gray line already have proxy networks setup, but Tor is nice that it can be run from a usb card as well.
Sadly, the best way to get FBI attention where you are secretly monitered at your ISP without your knowledge or consent is to go on *.onion sites in the first place. They run some of the illegal sites, use various ways to bypass your proxies and will know who you are. Of course you can get a VPN, but its not worth it to be paranoid everytime you hear a door slam in your neighborhood or the doorbell rings.

Your ISP knows when you access TOR servers, the MAC address of your modem and laptop cards (Google does too BTW - do a search for wireless mapping), the government runs nodes etc. They are looking for people doing illegal things, especially Anonymous members.

Public IPs also capture your MAC unless you are using a VM and VPN with remote DNS. Dont forget to turn off the radio signal in your cell phone so you cant be triangulated and dont drive in front of video cameras.
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Last edited by FelixDeCat; 04-13-2012 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:52 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Lifted View Post
I really can't believe not a single person in this thread has the slightest clue about tor or onion, other than the OP. I thought AT is a tech site/forum.

Regardless, I personally wouldn't trust a tor/onion email service, and that's for both the anonymous aspect and the security of the emails/data.

Also, I can't imagine the nodes (or tormail.net servers) wouldn't be blacklisted by every smtp server and spam filter out there in a month, tops.
This may be a techie site, but not everyone is a techie. I personally don't tread Tor because it doesn't interest me much.
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Old 04-13-2012, 12:53 PM   #23
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I miss Dodgit.
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