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Old 01-10-2012, 12:38 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qbah View Post
First screens available:

http://kotaku.com/5874369/x+com-enem...reens-prove-it

From the description it looks like they will keep the real time geoscape, pause during base management and turn based tactical combat = YES!

Nice!

Very nice looking screens.

Damn that base looks like Dr. Evil's headquarters, I like it! Also interesting the perspective is from the side instead of top-down.

The screen of the battle has an interface/style that reminds me alot of the Altar UFO games, which is good because I did enjoy that game's interface.
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Old 01-10-2012, 12:49 PM   #77
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Ugh. That kotaku article makes it look like they will remove large portions of the game. Plus it is in a hex environment, which reduces your options since there are only 6 adjacent tiles, vs. 8 adjacent tiles like standard square tiles. Plus it makes things wierd since it is difficult to make squared building/anything in a hex environment.

I just have the feeling they will make a tactical combat game with little of the building and research that was important in the original game.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:01 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Martimus View Post
Ugh. That kotaku article makes it look like they will remove large portions of the game. Plus it is in a hex environment, which reduces your options since there are only 6 adjacent tiles, vs. 8 adjacent tiles like standard square tiles. Plus it makes things wierd since it is difficult to make squared building/anything in a hex environment.

I just have the feeling they will make a tactical combat game with little of the building and research that was important in the original game.
There's no way they are gutting the game, did you see the interview with the guys making it? They would never desecrate the game like that.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:34 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martimus View Post

I just have the feeling they will make a tactical combat game with little of the building and research that was important in the original game.
Not according to these quotes from the article

Quote:
So this is some kind of RTS?
No, not in the way the term "RTS" typically applies to games like StarCraft. The real-time element of XCOM is confined to the global view, where the player keeps track of known UFOs and abductions going on around the world. Managing research and development at the XCOM organization's secret base can be done at the player's leisure, and all combat is completely turn-based.

So what do you do in the real-time global view?
On the strategic layer, players direct research into alien technology, give their engineers and foundries fabrication requests, interact with the nations of the world (who have to be mollified to secure funding for XCOM), intercept airborne UFOs with jet fighters, level up their soldiers and recruit new ones, and dispatch the Skyranger transport to engage alien incursions on the ground.
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Old 01-10-2012, 01:57 PM   #80
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I picked up X-Com: Apocalypse out of the bargain rack, installed it, played it for like 5 minutes, and then never played it again. Hope this one turns out good.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:53 PM   #81
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"Firaxis is undeniably streamlining aspects of the game and removing no small amount of micromanagement," GI's Adam Blessener writes on the magazine's website today, "but from what I've seen I wouldn't call it 'dumbing down' the game so much as getting rid of tedium and uninteresting mechanics.
I wonder what tedious mechanics they removed. Most of the tedious stuff involved info not being available on certain UI screens that you needed to make decisions, and having to flip back and forth between screens to do it, not actual mechanics.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:59 PM   #82
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I hope they have a real time option for tactical. I liked Apocalypses style over the ideal Enemy Unknown strategy of doing everything possible to not let the enemy every get to fire at you.
It was great to have that option in late game missions, where your team was fully shielded and in the best armor and was equipped with the toxin C guns. Dual wield FTW

For crashed UFOs it was a sprint to the entrance and making a double line formation They would waste anything that came out of the ship before the aliens could even blink
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Old 01-10-2012, 04:35 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by GoodRevrnd View Post
Quote:
"Firaxis is undeniably streamlining aspects of the game and removing no small amount of micromanagement," GI's Adam Blessener writes on the magazine's website today, "but from what I've seen I wouldn't call it 'dumbing down' the game so much as getting rid of tedium and uninteresting mechanics.
I wonder what tedious mechanics they removed. Most of the tedious stuff involved info not being available on certain UI screens that you needed to make decisions, and having to flip back and forth between screens to do it, not actual mechanics.
This sounds dissapointing: I thought the level of management was quite right, it's not a complicated game, you only have a couple of bases, a couple dozen soldiers, inventory isn't too big either etc. If this is the same kind of "streamlining" that Civ 5 did, I'll be a sad panda...
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Old 01-10-2012, 05:33 PM   #84
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Ya I just don't understand what there is to streamline in the actual gameplay. Like I said everything frustrating goes back to the UI with it being difficult to see what's going on with soldier stats and how tedious it can be to specifically equip and order soldiers in your craft. If anything they could expand certain aspects. Add a bit more depth to the geoscape combat interception maybe, add back in the "men in black" agents that were scrapped from the original game, little stuff like that that just expands your options.
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Old 01-10-2012, 06:31 PM   #85
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I picked up X-Com: Apocalypse out of the bargain rack, installed it, played it for like 5 minutes, and then never played it again. Hope this one turns out good.
Well cause that game is pure trash

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Originally Posted by GoodRevrnd View Post
I wonder what tedious mechanics they removed. Most of the tedious stuff involved info not being available on certain UI screens that you needed to make decisions, and having to flip back and forth between screens to do it, not actual mechanics.
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Originally Posted by iCyborg View Post
This sounds dissapointing: I thought the level of management was quite right, it's not a complicated game, you only have a couple of bases, a couple dozen soldiers, inventory isn't too big either etc. If this is the same kind of "streamlining" that Civ 5 did, I'll be a sad panda...
We shall see, but I think you guys might be overreacting a little bit. Lets admit, it was TEDIOUS to sell stuff every time you got back from a mission, it was TEDIOUS to have to re-arm your recruits all the time, the UI was certainly not the best for lots of things.

They could very well mean that they are cleaning up those aspects of the game.

After watching the interview with the guys making the game, there is no doubt in my mind that it is in good hands. Have you all seen the interview? Page 1 or 2 of this thread I think.

I do hope they FIX some things that were flawed with the original game... Psionics for example, that made the game far too easy, you could sleep walk through everything once you had that ability. The Blaster bombs, while a ton of fun, a bit too powerful IMO.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:01 PM   #86
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God I hope they don't mess this up. X-COM Enemy Unknown was/is my favorite PC game of all time.
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Old 01-10-2012, 07:20 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by NTAC View Post
After watching the interview with the guys making the game, there is no doubt in my mind that it is in good hands.
Yes, but to be a pessimist for a moment, Civ V was in good hands with the guy that was primarily responsible for BtS and while I still like it it had some very fundamental flaws caused directly by over sreamlining.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:59 PM   #88
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We shall see, but I think you guys might be overreacting a little bit. Lets admit, it was TEDIOUS to sell stuff every time you got back from a mission, it was TEDIOUS to have to re-arm your recruits all the time, the UI was certainly not the best for lots of things.

They could very well mean that they are cleaning up those aspects of the game.

After watching the interview with the guys making the game, there is no doubt in my mind that it is in good hands. Have you all seen the interview? Page 1 or 2 of this thread I think.

I do hope they FIX some things that were flawed with the original game... Psionics for example, that made the game far too easy, you could sleep walk through everything once you had that ability. The Blaster bombs, while a ton of fun, a bit too powerful IMO.
Come on, selling stuff was really fun, and compared to missions, it took very little time. I agree that, in general, there's plenty room for UI improvement though. And ya, psionics was annoying on alien side, and too powerful on human side.

Perhaps I am overreacting, but I spent a huge amount of time on CIV series only to see it "streamlined" into CIV 5 that I did not and never intend to buy. Morrowind to Oblivion was similar, though to a lesser degree, and with Skyrim I've lost all interest for the series, and also don't see myself buying it ever (both games mandating Steam is also a big turn-off factor for me). So with this history of seeing "streamlining" invariably ruin some of my favourite game series, you can see why I hate seeing that word here.
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Old 01-10-2012, 09:40 PM   #89
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I don't think psionics needs to be taken out. That's just an example of one thing (among many) that needs to be rebalanced. And selling stuff really wasn't that tedious. You didn't need to do it after every mission. Just do it when convenient. Selling salvage and manufacturing for profit were valid strats to keep your operation afloat.
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Old 01-11-2012, 02:00 AM   #90
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Supposedly UFO Extraterrestials 2 is coming out in March, I really enjoyed the gold version of the one that is on steam now. Seemed to do most of the stuff that x-com did.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:37 AM   #91
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Supposedly UFO Extraterrestials 2 is coming out in March, I really enjoyed the gold version of the one that is on steam now. Seemed to do most of the stuff that x-com did.
Seems a decent game but I just cant get past it's graphics. The art style looks so awful.
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:07 PM   #92
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Not according to these quotes from the article
That is a completely different article than the one I read. Can you link the article you pulled those quotes from? I was talking about the article quoted at the top of this page.
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:25 PM   #93
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Come on, selling stuff was really fun, and compared to missions, it took very little time. I agree that, in general, there's plenty room for UI improvement though. And ya, psionics was annoying on alien side, and too powerful on human side.
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I don't think psionics needs to be taken out. That's just an example of one thing (among many) that needs to be rebalanced. And selling stuff really wasn't that tedious. You didn't need to do it after every mission. Just do it when convenient. Selling salvage and manufacturing for profit were valid strats to keep your operation afloat.
No I don't think Psionics need to be removed, but heavily re-balanced, as it was just stupid at the end of the game. I control Alien A who sees Alien B so then I can obviously control Alien B who sees Alien C... holy crap I can take out an entire base without moving.

It should probably be Line of Sight ONLY from the actual psionic soldier to enemy soldier, not some endless chain link

I didn't mean to say that selling stuff was not something I want, I just think they can make it easier to do... some automated purchases and sales... something to make the process a tad less cumbersome.
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:51 PM   #94
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It seemed that with psionics once you had them you had them. The alien should probably have resistance checks each turn that are compounded by distance from the controlling soldier (as well as a distance check on first control attempt). Full control should probably also only be available for maybe 3 turns at most. The problem also was once you got an alien he was kind of broken anyway and a big part of psionics was often wearing them down first with panics and the like so by the end they were useless mush anyway.
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:59 PM   #95
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It seemed that with psionics once you had them you had them. The alien should probably have resistance checks each turn that are compounded by distance from the controlling soldier (as well as a distance check on first control attempt). Full control should probably also only be available for maybe 3 turns at most. The problem also was once you got an alien he was kind of broken anyway and a big part of psionics was often wearing them down first with panics and the like so by the end they were useless mush anyway.
Lots of problems with it. You could take control of an alien, disarm him, and he'd never pick up his weapons again, even if you lost control

3 turns at most, that's 2 more tunrs than you normaly get You should get 1 turn of control, no chain reaction control, and there should be a chance that it backfires. Either HURTS your soldier, puts them out of action for some turns, or maybe the control is reversed, becasue now the Alien is aware of you and can fight hback, if it is a psionic orientated alien.

The biggest part about psionics wasthe line of sight thing. You control Alien A he can see Alien B, thus you can control Alien B, etc..etc... that should go away in the LEAST>
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:37 PM   #96
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More screen shots!!! These are looking much better IMO:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...y-unknown.aspx
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Old 01-11-2012, 04:52 PM   #97
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Ok I got hung up on line of sight because I was thinking the psi soldier must have LOS which kind of sucks. But if you made it so that it just requires anyone in your squad to have LOS that would be good. I like that idea of a backfire mechanic too. They could have psi energy too that gets depleted the longer they use powers which would also make them more vulnerable. You should be unable to use the soldier to do other stuff while he is in active mind control mode as well.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:27 PM   #98
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Ok I got hung up on line of sight because I was thinking the psi soldier must have LOS which kind of sucks. But if you made it so that it just requires anyone in your squad to have LOS that would be good. I like that idea of a backfire mechanic too. They could have psi energy too that gets depleted the longer they use powers which would also make them more vulnerable. You should be unable to use the soldier to do other stuff while he is in active mind control mode as well.
So I'm saying the opposite, if soldier A is the PSI soldier and he does NOT have LOS to the Alien but Soldier B who has no PSI abilities DOES have LOS to the Alien then soldier A should NOT be able to control the Alien.

That is what the old game allowed, and what I found to ruin the game towards the end.

Don't get me wrong, it was fun as hell to have aliens kill eachother and throw grenades at eachother and just basically commit self genocide without me having to move an inch, but it got old after a while and really there was zero challenge at that point.

So basically waht I'm saying is that i want the game to continue to be challenging up until the very end.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:48 PM   #99
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That is a completely different article than the one I read. Can you link the article you pulled those quotes from? I was talking about the article quoted at the top of this page.
Sure, it is linked on the article you read near the bottom of the page:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...y-unknown.aspx
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:57 PM   #100
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Came across a post on the 2K XCOM forum which outlines a ton of information about features in the game. I am not sure how credible the information is however, as the source(s) are not cited.

http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?117098-New-info-from-game-informer!

Quote:
Ok, it looks like some of the information we got from people who read the Game Informer article was wrong. Apparently those people didn't read it right or something. Anyway, here are some clarifications from the author of the article:

1. Not sure if the GAF poster was reading the mag upside down or something, but no. Countries don't research stuff, XCOM does. Countries will give you missions with tradeoffs (send us 4 laser rifles and we'll give you 10 engineers etc).

2. Grappling hook is an armor ability, not a class thing. The sniper in the example was equipped with an armor suit that has a grapple ability.

3. The cinimatic view is purely presentation, just some eye candy for big moments in combat.

4. You start out with only 4 soldiers and then upgrade your limit from there.





Sorry if this is unorganized, it is pulled from a bunch of different sources:


•Destructible environments

•In the scenario they showed, one member died. Because of this the other squadmates didn't get an experience bonus

•Without the bonus, the sniper leveled up still. He was able to choose from two abilities. Either Squad Sight(which means he can shoot anything a squadmate can see) and Snap Shot(which lets him shoot after moving. Something snipers aren't normally allowed to do)

•You can't recruit specific classes. You can only recruit rookies and then level them up to become specific classes

•The guys in suits in the screenshots are 'Thin Man' aliens. They're able to leap long distances

•Challenge is stressed a lot

•same quick save/load system though they are considering an iron man type mode where you can't load previous saves

•Firaxis states that they're not rebooting it, they're re imagining it. Using the same core gameplay with modern technology, weapons, audiovisuals, etc.




There's apparently a 'Heavy Armed Mobile Cover Platform that serves as a powerful rock on which to anchor any tactical advantage' and you can directly customize the heavy troops armor and weapons individually.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF XCOM'S CONTENT COMES IN THE FORM OF PROCEDURUALLY GENERATED MISSIONS AND ENCOUNTERS, MEANING THAT EVERY PLAYTHROUGH UNFOLDS DIFFERENTLY. (Sorry for the caps, just quoting here.)




•randomly generated missions, terrain. Developer says you'll never play the exact same mission twice outside of a few story missions which feature in-game cinematics

•fog of war is confirmed. area starts off with darkness everywhere, and the average soldier can't see ☺☺☺☺

•enemy spawns are randomized

•mobile platform called SHIV; customizable for new chasis

•Sectoids and Mutons confirmed

•The base's screenshot is accurate. It is now a side shot instead of top down. You can also upgrade your base, like the satellite, with alien technology

•There was an example in one scenario where Japan had the laser rifle already developed before the invasion because they felt threatened, so that seems random.

•You have 16 countries in the funding council you need to keep happy. Some provide more money, but others, like Africa, provide more raw resources

•The sniper units have a grappling hook ability to get on top of buildings

•Gunners have a suppressing fire

•you can equip your xcom guys with all kinds of different guns. customization looks like a big deal

•Apparently there's some sort of cinematic view when your guys get killed. They didn't cite VATS or anything, so I doubt it's too in depth

•Unexperienced agents can panic, freak out, etc if something bad happens

•Firaxis designer states that the PC version will have an enhanced interface. He cites Dragon Age: Origins on PC and console as a big inspiration




•No black blobs in Firaxis's XCOM. The guys in suits are called "Thin Men" and they can use weapons, jump large distances, and puke disgusting goo.

•No action points. The game uses a move-and-shoot (or move-and-move) dynamic. They don't want people piddling around counting individual action points. Some will call this a concession to consolitis; others will call it useful streamlining.

•Soldiers gain perk-like abilities when leveling up; some examples given are, for a sniper, Snap Shot (move-then-shoot, not normally a sniper option) or Squad Sight (shoot any enemy anyone on your squad can see -- not sure of the rationale there....).

•Environments are destructible, as we would wish.

•Soldiers can still panic, but not to the point of wiping the squad. Likewise, you'll never get plasma-bombed right out of the carrier. They want to make the game more fair, and those were specifically mentioned.

•The strategic layer is extremely robust. You still need to choose which countries to send missions to, which offers of aid (in exchange for more protection) you'll accept from which countries, which alien technologies you'll research, etc. The back-and-forth between tactical and strategic play remains at the heart of the game.

•Overwatch, duck-and-cover, etc. are all still very much present, tactically.

•You can research vehicles, which take the place of a squaddie. They don't gain XP and when they are destroyed they are lost for good, but they provide serious cover and firepower. One example given is a mobile heavy weapons platform that serves as a good overwatcher for a tactical advance.

•Sectoids and Mutons are in. Cyberdiscs and Thin Men are also mentioned. Evidently psionics are also in.

•Aliens have their own special perk-like abilities as well.
Overall it looks really ☺☺☺☺ing fantastic and I am now DAY ONE.



The article specifically cites a sniper spending their entire turn to take an aimed shot for Massive Damage. Perhaps it's more accurate to think of the game as having only two action points per turn, for Move-Shoot, or Move-Move, or Aim-Shoot, etc.

Gus, like I said, overwatch is in the game. In, in, in the game. You definitely can set up squaddies who haven't used all their actions in a turn, such that they can do overwatch and shoot the instant something comes into view.




Reloading costs an action, so it is a tactical consideration. Ducking into cover is the main positioning mechanic they mention. They also mention supppressive fire as another mechanic -- your heavy weapons guy can lay down a barrage that can paralyze pinned units (e.g. remove their actions). Grenades are in, wounding is in. Generally it doesn't sound like there are fewer tactical options, but rather that the bookkeeping is simplified.



(This part was by the author of the GI article)
Apologies if the article was unclear, but the deal is that sniper rifles are unusual in that they take a full turn to shoot. You can unlock a move-shoot perk for snipers at some experience level, but your basic sniper rifle takes a full turn to fire.

Ammo is abstracted. You're assumed to be carrying enough clips to reload as much as you want, but it takes a turn to do so. Suppressive fire is crazy awesome, for instance, but it burns through ammo like a mofo so you're borrowing turns down the road to kick ass now.

Body positions - AIUI you are assumed to be kneeling behind partial cover etc. They didn't go into a ton of detail here. Personally that's a level of control granularity that I'm not concerned about preserving, so long as I have other awesome ☺☺☺☺ that I can do and creative tactics to explore. Which from what I've seen will not be lacking.


So yeah, you only have one base. Building different bases has been removed, but you still buy satellite coverage (the new radar) and build hangars for interception in different countries. Your single base is like way more crazy awesome than any base from the original, though, and presents lots of opportunities for more decision-making in terms of digging deeper as well as what kind of expansion facilities you add on (see the screenshot of the "ant farm" that we put online Monday).
Some things it mentions that really sucks:
  • you only have one main base, you can only build limited satellite bases.
  • time units are stripped out of the game for some simple 2-action per turn system
  • ammunition is abstracted out - it's unlimited
I seriously hope this is not correct information on these points
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