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Old 12-01-2011, 01:58 PM   #1
natto fire
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Default Going on six weeks now with Progressive Snapshot. update: CEL?

Initial discount of 25%, which has already been applied. My projected discount at renewal is 28% so far, (only racked up 7 hard stops and no high risk driving time) but I feel my overall driving is actually less safe. I take turns faster, and always try to coast instead of brake to avoid dumbshit drivers who cannot comprehend right of way. Have come really close to a car that was opposite me turning left in my path.

How much I drive fluctuates quite a bit, and they definitely caught me at a low time. Right now my weekly average is 15.92 miles, but I am pretty sure the ratio of hard stops to mileage is more important than average miles driven.

Anyone else using this thing, and if so has it actually changed your driving habits?

Update:
So I discovered something interesting about this device today. My car wouldn't start the other day so on a whim I disconnected it but it still didn't start.

I then dis/reconnected the battery and it did start and drove normal for a while and then died a couple times on the test drive, on the third restart it threw a CEL. Died one more time and still restarted, CEL again.

I got home and plugged in the device and it no longer started, unplugged device, still not starting. I then did the battery connection again with the same results as above.

Today I did this test for a third time and pretty much confirmed the device does not like CELs. My OBDII code reader is still on the way, so I don't know exactly what code I am dealing with yet, too nervous to drive it to a parts store with it dying so often on quick test drives. In any event I think it is a pretty critical CEL, although it doesn't seem to be on any kind of base maps or limp home mode.

Last edited by natto fire; 12-14-2011 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 12-01-2011, 03:24 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Captain Howdy View Post
Initial discount of 25%, which has already been applied. My projected discount at renewal is 28% so far, (only racked up 7 hard stops and no high risk driving time) but I feel my overall driving is actually less safe. I take turns faster, and always try to coast instead of brake to avoid dumbshit drivers who cannot comprehend right of way. Have come really close to a car that was opposite me turning left in my path.

How much I drive fluctuates quite a bit, and they definitely caught me at a low time. Right now my weekly average is 15.92 miles, but I am pretty sure the ratio of hard stops to mileage is more important than average miles driven.

Anyone else using this thing, and if so has it actually changed your driving habits?
there is no way in hell i would use that thing. i don't want my insurance company to know how i drive. i'm not good at paying attention to speed limits.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:56 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by amish View Post
there is no way in hell i would use that thing. i don't want my insurance company to know how i drive. i'm not good at paying attention to speed limits.
They don't factor speed into the discount, just time of day traveled, distanced traveled, and number of speed decreases greater than 7MPH/second. They also won't raise your rates because of the data they gather; they just won't give you an additional discount. Plus you can always just take out the snapshot device if you want to do "spirited" driving or something.

I got my initial discount back, too, at 13%, with a projected discount of 21% at rewnewal. I do 100% medium risk driving times due to being on 3rd shift, and had a lot of hard brakes for a week since I was sick and had just started driving the car after weeks of riding nothing but the motorcycle (was driving the car because I was sick). I had 20 hard brakes in 153.25 miles, so that's ~7.67 miles per hard brake all in medium risk driving times, and I still got a 13% discount. Normally, though, I had virtually zero hard brakes.

I never really bothered to look at their online datalogger until after I got my discount. Now that I have, I've become a lot more aware of my braking and do find myself doing whatever I can to minimize braking and otherwise trying to increase my stopping distance. I normally pop the clutch and coast to a stoplight using the brake and downshifting as needed. Instead, I now find myself trying to actively use engine braking.

Overall, I suppose I'm driving "safer" by increasing following distance and brake lead time at stoplights, though it doesn't feel like I'm being safer. I'm braking softer than I would like in order to reduce the risk of a hard brake tag on the snapshot when I'd feel safer braking harder. Basically I'm looking more at the speedometer when I'm braking instead of just worrying about stopping in time.

*shrug* Going by the log before I was sick and after I was sick -- up to the point where I started looking at the logger -- I really didn't have any hard brakes except for one here or there, so my normal driving habits seem OK by their standards. It was just that time when I was sick that threw off my initial average.
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:20 AM   #4
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It collects speed data:

Quote:
What information does the Snapshot device collect?
The Snapshot device collects:

Time of day and vehicle speed, which helps determine how many miles you drive and how often you make sudden stops.
When the device is connected and disconnected from the vehicle.
Vehicle Identification Number (VIN).

The Snapshot device doesn't contain GPS technology or track vehicle location. It also doesn't track whether you're exceeding the speed limit.
It may not determine your rate, but it will show that you were speeding when an accident occurred...
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:24 AM   #5
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i assume is you drive longer distances it puts you in a higher risk bracket thus making your discount less?
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:31 AM   #6
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i assume is you drive longer distances it puts you in a higher risk bracket thus making your discount less?
The OP says otherwise but I don't personally know. If it's just ratio I'd probably do pretty well but I drive ~600 miles per week on average so using overall miles driven would hurt my rates. I have no interest in installing this device anyway.

Quote:
I am pretty sure the ratio of hard stops to mileage is more important than average miles driven.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:02 AM   #7
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i assume is you drive longer distances it puts you in a higher risk bracket thus making your discount less?
I drive 90 miles a day for work. Their estimate was 0% discount if I used the device. So, if you drive a lot of miles, there is no benefit to using the snapshot device. It doesn't matter that most of my driving is on a 4 lane highway and not city traffic.

Last edited by fenrir; 12-02-2011 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:32 AM   #8
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I should get this and put it in my grandfather's car.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:57 AM   #9
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How hard of a stop is 7mph/sec really? Seems like something a sporty car could do easily with normal braking.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:57 AM   #10
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Before they started counting hard brakes against you I got good discounts - 15% roughly due to my low mileage/slow speed commute.

Right now I'm looking at 0% on the Mustang (70 miles per week average, 56 hard brakes) and likely 0% on the Viper (43 miles per week, 39 hard brakes).

The sad thing is I gave up a running 5% discount (from back when you got 5% just for supplying data) in hopes that my low mileage and heavy travel schedule would get me more. Oops.

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How hard of a stop is 7mph/sec really? Seems like something a sporty car could do easily with normal braking.
I hadn't noticed the 7mph/sec before, that is just absurdly low. My commute is ~3 miles to work in speed zones 45 or under the entire way. There are lots of stoplights. There's no way I'm going to spend 6 seconds stopping from 45 mph.

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Old 12-02-2011, 12:13 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by amish View Post
there is no way in hell i would use that thing. i don't want my insurance company to know how i drive. i'm not good at paying attention to speed limits.
Yeah, I'm with you on this. No way would I want an insurance company to have access to every transgression I've made behind the wheel.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:19 PM   #12
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So if it does do total miles driven as well, I should see my projected discount go down quite a bit when I really start driving again.

My current average is so low because I installed the thing and then flew to visit family for two weeks. When I got back I drove my mom's car for a while as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
It collects speed data:

It may not determine your rate, but it will show that you were speeding when an accident occurred...
That could be a good or a bad thing. I know the threshold is set at 75MPH, so if you need to drive faster than that (I know I have before) then you should be on your own if something goes wrong, IMO.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:24 PM   #13
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Slippery slope fellows.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viper GTS View Post
Before they started counting hard brakes against you I got good discounts - 15% roughly due to my low mileage/slow speed commute.

Right now I'm looking at 0% on the Mustang (70 miles per week average, 56 hard brakes) and likely 0% on the Viper (43 miles per week, 39 hard brakes).

The sad thing is I gave up a running 5% discount (from back when you got 5% just for supplying data) in hopes that my low mileage and heavy travel schedule would get me more. Oops.



I hadn't noticed the 7mph/sec before, that is just absurdly low. My commute is ~3 miles to work in speed zones 45 or under the entire way. There are lots of stoplights. There's no way I'm going to spend 6 seconds stopping from 45 mph.

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If you get snagged by a light, 7 MPH/sec is not really practical. If you are lucky and driving with little brake, then it is a piece of cake. They must have some other criteria.
Maybe it is 7 MPH/sec when you don't actually stop? Like when an asshat drives aggressively gas-to-brake and never lets off till he is right up on somebody? I'd hope that was the behavior they were trying to curb/penalize.
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Old 12-02-2011, 12:27 PM   #15
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hello big brother!
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:11 PM   #16
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I would totally not want to use this, I like to brake hard in my car often, sometimes I activate the ABS on purpose.
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Old 12-02-2011, 06:12 PM   #17
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That could be a good or a bad thing. I know the threshold is set at 75MPH, so if you need to drive faster than that (I know I have before) then you should be on your own if something goes wrong, IMO.
Are you saying your car insurance shouldn't cover you if you're going 1mph over the limit? Seriously?

Hell, there's an interstate in Utah with an 80mph limit...
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Old 12-02-2011, 07:35 PM   #18
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hello big brother!
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Slippery slope fellows.
At least this is optional.
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:57 PM   #19
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At least this is optional.
for now. i thought i read the other insurance agency's were going to do the same.


i wouldn't want this either.
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:06 PM   #20
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Are you saying your car insurance shouldn't cover you if you're going 1mph over the limit? Seriously?

Hell, there's an interstate in Utah with an 80mph limit...
Sorry didn't mean to imply it should be black and white like that. While speed is always a factor when it comes to collisions, I am not trying to say it is the end all be all of every accident. Not to mention posted speed limits are usually stupid low to cater to the wide variety of driving skills, and variety of vehicles available for said drivers.

However, I do like the idea of them denying a claim to some 16 year old doing 100mph in the rain...

For the tinfoil crowd: This data could also be useful if I needed corroboration on an alibi, or if I wanted to commit a crime and needed data blackout, I could simply unplug it. I really doubt Flo is sitting at a computer tracking me driving to the hardware store, especially considering the thing doesn't have GPS.
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Old 12-03-2011, 03:36 AM   #21
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The way I look at it, it is a slippery slope. Right now they are offering this device as a way to get "discounts". Just wait till all of the insurance companies have a device like this...then see if they don't start dinging you for speeding or whatever else they want. Don't support this with your dollars...it will not end well for any of us.

As a note, I do not support speeding or driving like a douche. But I also don't support knowingly allowing a company more control over me.
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:35 AM   #22
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From what I understand, even though speed data is collected it's not used for any purposes other than figuring out if you're decelerating faster than 7MPH. I doesn't even pull braking data or acceleration data from the OBD, just raw speed. That's it (for speed stuff, anyway).

I haven't heard of the speed data being used against anyone in a claim, though I do imagine that it could be pulled as evidence in a court trial. I actually removed the device while in motion on the road, and it just stops the data logging. I can't remember the day I did that, but it either just marks it as an end of trip or doesn't upload the data.

Anyway. A greater than 7MPH is *very* easy to hit. Hell, my motorcycle engine brakes nearly that fast. I was going 50 MPH with a clear line to the stoplight when it turned yellow, and I had to be oh-so-delicate with the brake to make sure I didn't decelerate too fast. Around here we have a lot of stoplights in 45-55 MPH zones but they operate on the same yellow light times as 25 MPH zones, so if you get caught in one of those it's pretty much a guaranteed hard brake.

All that being said, the only reason I really got a snapshot device is because I usually ride my motorcycle and only have a 12 mile round trip commute. My rates also won't go *up* no matter what data it collects and I could remove the device at any time I thought I might need to do a lot of things that would drive my discount down, so it's a win-win. I'm driving my car a lot more now, however, while I wait for parts to repair my motorcycle from planting in a ditch, ironically from not braking hard enough before a turn.

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Old 12-03-2011, 08:13 AM   #23
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#1 this is not a program I will be in, I will say that. Definitely a slippery slope.

#2 7MPH doesn't seem like a lot given the circumstances, pretty much every BMW M3 driver I have ever seen wouldn't qualify.
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Old 12-03-2011, 08:13 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by TakeNoPrisoners View Post
I would totally not want to use this, I like to brake hard in my car often, sometimes I activate the ABS on purpose.
Lolwut.

All in all, 99% of people do not want that thing on their car. Good.
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:17 AM   #25
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Lolwut.

All in all, 99% of people do not want that thing on their car. Good.
They wouldn't offer it if that is the case. Hell if I could get it in my state I would. My car insurance is expensive and if I could save more money I would be happy.
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