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Old 10-21-2011, 04:02 PM   #1
Bateluer
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Default Muslim workers fired, over time cards and prayer time

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/1...tml?hpt=us_bn7

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SEATTLE -- Car rental firm Hertz fired 26 employees at its Sea-Tac Airport location for failing to clock out when they take their prayer breaks.

The employees say Hertz is trampling on their right to religious freedom, but the company says it's merely trying to promote fairness in the workplace.

"We feel like we're being punished for what we believe in," said former Hertz employee Ileys Omar.

Omar is a Muslim who prays five times a day. In the past, Muslim employees at Hertz paused for their prayers without clocking out.

"It's five minutes. It's not as big deal as the company's making it," Omar said.

There's more in the article. But, I'm going to side with Hertz on this one. 5 times a day for five minutes each, 25 minutes per day, 125minutes in a 5 day work week. If I punched my calculator right, thats ~108 hours in a calendar year. Per employee. That kinda adds up.

Quite a few companies have lunch punches and break punches as part of their policies, both manual punches and automated methods. Something to note though, the Hertz policy doesn't apply to smoke breaks, which I would assume would be equal to a prayer break by the time taken. One could make the argument that smoke breaks are even more costly to the company because of the adverse effects on employee healthy, making medical care more frequent and costly. Whereas 25 minutes a day of prayer could be argued to improve morale and mental health, but this is hard to demonstrate with hard data.

Seems like it'd be easy for Hertz to extend their policy to smokers as well, and implement an automated system and have employees opt into it if they want smoke/pray at work. Thats more than fair, and if its not good enough, they're welcome to seek other employment.
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Old 10-21-2011, 04:14 PM   #2
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If your fucked up religion is not compatible with Western society, you should leave and go somewhere else with it.
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Old 10-21-2011, 04:15 PM   #3
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Looks to me Hertz is trying to run afoul of state labor laws and just plain being dickish.

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State Laws on Rest Breaks

Only a handful of states -- California, Colorado, Kentucky, Minnesota, Nevada, Oregon, Vermont, and Washington -- currently require employers to allow employees to take rest breaks. With the exception of Minnesota and Vermont, which simply requires employers to give employees enough break time to use the restroom, these laws generally provide that employees can take a ten-minute rest break, with pay, for every four hours they work. A few other states allow employers to choose between giving a meal break or rest breaks.
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...yee-29773.html

Two prayers before lunch, one while clocked out for lunch, two after.
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Old 10-21-2011, 04:24 PM   #4
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Two prayers before lunch, one while clocked out for lunch, two after.
Nope.

For an 8 hour workday, two ten-minute breaks = two ten-minute breaks.

Not four five-minute breaks, or ten one-minute breaks...
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Old 10-21-2011, 04:58 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Bateluer View Post
http://www.komonews.com/news/local/1...tml?hpt=us_bn7




There's more in the article. But, I'm going to side with Hertz on this one. 5 times a day for five minutes each, 25 minutes per day, 125minutes in a 5 day work week. If I punched my calculator right, thats ~108 hours in a calendar year. Per employee. That kinda adds up.

Quite a few companies have lunch punches and break punches as part of their policies, both manual punches and automated methods. Something to note though, the Hertz policy doesn't apply to smoke breaks, which I would assume would be equal to a prayer break by the time taken. One could make the argument that smoke breaks are even more costly to the company because of the adverse effects on employee healthy, making medical care more frequent and costly. Whereas 25 minutes a day of prayer could be argued to improve morale and mental health, but this is hard to demonstrate with hard data.

Seems like it'd be easy for Hertz to extend their policy to smokers as well, and implement an automated system and have employees opt into it if they want smoke/pray at work. Thats more than fair, and if its not good enough, they're welcome to seek other employment.
Oh please use some facts. It is six times a day, before sunrise, at sunrise, around noon, about 3pm, sunset and a little after, so twice between 8:00AM to 5:00PM. Fits right in with lunch and afternoon break.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:00 PM   #6
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Oh please use some facts. It is six times a day, before sunrise, at sunrise, around noon, about 3pm, sunset and a little after, so twice between 8:00AM to 5:00PM. Fits right in with lunch and afternoon break.
Yell at Omar, not me. I was just quoting what he said in the interview, that he prays 5 times per day, apparently all during work hours.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:10 PM   #7
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Yell at Omar, not me. I was just quoting what he said in the interview, that he prays 5 times per day, apparently all during work hours.
He's working a 14 hour day? 5:00AM to 7:00PM is pretty rough. Just google prayer times. Can't fit five prayers in a nine hour day.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:21 PM   #8
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Note that all they would have had to do to keep their jobs was clock out. I understand from another article that they still get paid for breaks, so it wasn't even about money. Hertz just wouldn't let them pray without it using their paid break time.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:25 PM   #9
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Have you never punched a clock? Clocking out = not being paid.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:25 PM   #10
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He's working a 14 hour day? 5:00AM to 7:00PM is pretty rough. Just google prayer times. Can't fit five prayers in a nine hour day.
Again, yell at him. He's apparently praying 5 times per day during his work hours, though he doesn't specify the length of the work day.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:39 PM   #11
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"It's five minutes. It's not as big deal as the company's making it"

If it's not that big of a deal, just clock out. Problem solved.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:42 PM   #12
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"It's five minutes. It's not as big deal as the company's making it"

If it's not that big of a deal, just clock out. Problem solved.
Exactly.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:45 PM   #13
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So if they spend less than 20 minutes on non-lunch break in a work day, they're OK? Do they or not?

EDIT: On a separate note, of all time investments possible, prayer seems to have the worst return. I mean, for having prayed thousands of hours in a lifetime, Muslims sure get the shit end of the stick.

Last edited by Howard; 10-21-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:49 PM   #14
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Have you never punched a clock? Clocking out = not being paid.
Wrong in this case. They get 20 minutes of paid break time per day. So as long as they clock out for less than 20 minutes total, they do get paid for it.

" Broome said it's not about pay break time is paid time but to ensure that workers were staying within the 10-minute time slots, which has been a problem. He pointed out that Muslim workers who clocked out were not suspended."
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Old 10-21-2011, 05:59 PM   #15
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Wrong in this case. They get 20 minutes of paid break time per day. So as long as they clock out for less than 20 minutes total, they do get paid for it.
It's not an additive "total".

The law specifies a ten-minute break every four hours worked. In CA, the worker may choose not to take those breaks if they want. But workers may not break up those ten minute break period into smaller breaks of different sizes, etc.

People can smoke or pray or do whatever they want to do during their ten minutes. But once they return back to work, their employer isn't legally obligated to provide another break (of any length) until the next four hour period.

So in this situation, for the first four-hour period: The employee's first break of 5 minutes is paid, and the employee is not required to clock out. The employee forfeits the remaining 5 minutes of break time when they return to work. If the employee leaves to take another break during that same four-hour period, they are required to clock out since it's not paid...
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:02 PM   #16
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but it's their religious right!!!!! they're being oppressed!!!!
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Gonad the Barbarian View Post
Looks to me Hertz is trying to run afoul of state labor laws and just plain being dickish.


http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...yee-29773.html

Two prayers before lunch, one while clocked out for lunch, two after.
Another Muslim apologist......
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:18 PM   #18
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So if they spend less than 20 minutes on non-lunch break in a work day, they're OK? Do they or not?

EDIT: On a separate note, of all time investments possible, prayer seems to have the worst return. I mean, for having prayed thousands of hours in a lifetime, Muslims sure get the shit end of the stick.
Another Muslim apologist!!!

Dude --If your religion is not compatible with Western society, you should leave and go somewhere else with it.
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:19 PM   #19
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Glad Hertz had the balls to deal with this issue instead of caving.
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:19 PM   #20
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but it's their religious right!!!!! they're being oppressed!!!!
Nobody is forcing them to live in America.....
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:23 PM   #21
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but it's their religious right!!!!! they're being oppressed!!!!
Its a private employer not the government.
If you cannot do the job within the parameters set forth by the company then you can choose to find another jobs or continue your employment under those parameters.
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:37 PM   #22
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Another Muslim apologist......
And another hateful asshole.
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Old 10-21-2011, 06:59 PM   #23
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And another hateful asshole.
How so?

There is no hate speech in my post....only the truth!
Nobody is forcing them to work for that particular emplyer.
The truth is the truth!!
If your religion is not compatible with Western society, you should leave and go somewhere else with it.

The day western society changes to accommodate these people is the day we have lost out identity!!

I have no issues with Muslims working and living within the rules of our society!!

Just like if I went to a Muslim country to live and work, I would do my best to live peacefully within their society!!
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:05 PM   #24
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When being as tolerant of Muslims praying as smokers on a smoke break equals undermining western society in your mind, that's some hate there bud.
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:16 PM   #25
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OK, so they can get paid to take 2 prayer breaks in their 8 hour shift, and only need to take an unpaid break if they want to pray more than that.

Again, Herz only said they needed to clock out not that they couldn't pray. Pray twice, it's a paid clock out. Pray eleven times and you do the other 9 on your own dime.
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