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Old 10-15-2011, 02:24 PM   #126
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<- owned a yugo for many years in my poorer days
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You buy a Porsche 911 and you find out the shell is a Porsche , but the engine is a Yugo model instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lol123 View Post
Also when it comes to talking to the enthusiast community, I think that you did make a severe mistake by going into the fray the way you did with an attitude and a use of language that was far from professional and arrogantly delivering promises and "corrections" of other posters that have now turned out to be completely false. I think you have contributed to damaging AMD's reputation in a way that wouldn't have happened if you simply had said nothing like the rest of AMD (although the client marketing division really should carry a lot more of the blame than you). I actually expressed that opinion long before the BD launch, something that I received a lot of flak for in these forums then. Now everything points to my being right in that regard. I don't think that AMD will ever recover the following and respect it used to enjoy among enthusiasts, and you might say that doesn't really matter to you, but the enormous amount of badwill that has come out of the Bulldozer launch will inevitably affect (I would say that it already has) other AMD operations.
You are way over-estimating the relevance of much of this IMO.

Have you read Drwho?'s posts much on XS? I love Francois's personality, but if you would make the claim that John has "damaged" AMD in any way then I can only imagine in my wildest dreams what you must think of Francois's posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeblood View Post
JFAMD, this who were disrespectful to you should not have been so, and I appreciate you presence in these forums. Having said that, I must also say I feel you did mislead us. You said that IPC was better or it did not drop on numerous occasions. I accept that you believed it to be true. But at some point you must have found out this was untrue. I cannot accept that someone as senior did not know until the rest of us found out. When you found out you were wrong you were obligated to correct yourself, and state you were wrong. You did not. Until the last you were telling us to disregard the leaked benchmarks saying they would not be representative, yet they were dead on.

I accept you made a mistake, I do not accept your failing to correct yourself.
It is pretty clear that John could not come out and correct his own statements. He said he was only allowed to communicate what the engineers allowed him to say.

Sure at some point he knew he was wrong in regards to his prior posts, but he had to have permission to say as much. You really think he was trying hide at that point? The inevitable truth was coming anyways, nothing to gain by hiding.

I can only imagine the stomach churning angst he felt having his hands tied behind his back when he realized his statements were wrong but that he did not have authorization to amend them.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:28 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonbjerg View Post
So JFAMD get people banned...for predicting facts, he then makes 1 posts..and all is dandy?

No way in hell.

PR lying mouthpiece...you ow a personal appology to those that got banned before you even can start to be "justified"!!!
Links to prove your accusations? To my knowledge no one here at ATF was ever banned for disputing JFAMD's posts.

But many have been infracted for violating the posting guidelines by way of making personal attacks and insults.

One would hope that folks can see, and appreciate, the difference.

No more baseless accusations, you got links then post them up, otherwise this is a member callout and as such it is unacceptable.

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Old 10-15-2011, 02:32 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by lol123 View Post
Also when it comes to talking to the enthusiast community, I think that you did make a severe mistake by going into the fray the way you did with an attitude and a use of language that was far from professional and arrogantly delivering promises and &quot;corrections&quot; of other posters that have now turned out to be completely false. I think you have contributed to damaging AMD's reputation in a way that wouldn't have happened if you simply had said nothing like the rest of AMD (although the client marketing division really should carry a lot more of the blame than you). I actually expressed that opinion long before the BD launch, something that I received a lot of flak for in these forums then. Now everything points to my being right in that regard. I don't think that AMD will ever recover the following and respect it used to enjoy among enthusiasts, and you might say that doesn't really matter to you, but the enormous amount of badwill that has come out of the Bulldozer launch will inevitably affect (I would say that it already has) other AMD operations.
I agree that JFAMD's posts were not consistent with that of someone professionally providing information to the enthusiast community. That being said, he wasn't professionally providing information to us. He is a hardware enthusiast who works at AMD. If I was in his shoes, I'd post here too (I do already). He has always made it clear he is NOT posting in a professional capacity, and while I (very often) disagree with JFAMD, I always find his posts interesting.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:50 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by podspi View Post
I agree that JFAMD's posts were not consistent with that of someone professionally providing information to the enthusiast community. That being said, he wasn't professionally providing information to us. He is a hardware enthusiast who works at AMD. If I was in his shoes, I'd post here too (I do already). He has always made it clear he is NOT posting in a professional capacity, and while I (very often) disagree with JFAMD, I always find his posts interesting.
I understand that was the intention, however regardless of the disclaimers you add to your signature, you have to understand that when you write under your real name as a director of a company the information you give out and the attitude you display reflects on your company. That's the reality and if you want to avoid that, you should not sign your posts with your real name and the name of your employer.
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Old 10-15-2011, 02:52 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
It is pretty clear that John could not come out and correct his own statements. He said he was only allowed to communicate what the engineers allowed him to say.

Sure at some point he knew he was wrong in regards to his prior posts, but he had to have permission to say as much. You really think he was trying hide at that point? The inevitable truth was coming anyways, nothing to gain by hiding.

I can only imagine the stomach churning angst he felt having his hands tied behind his back when he realized his statements were wrong but that he did not have authorization to amend them.
Funny, wasn't it you that claimed he was here a a private poster..and not PR for AMD?
This post contradicts your previous statments
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:01 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lol123 View Post
I understand that was the intention, however regardless of the disclaimers you add to your signature, you have to understand that when you write under your real name as a director of a company the information you give out and the attitude you display reflects on your company. That's the reality and if you want to avoid that, you should not sign your posts with your real name and the name of your employer.
I don't discount your opinion, there is some truth to it, but I disagree that this is the way it should be.

People should not cower behind anonymous online handles out of fear that their opinions might reflect poorly on their employer.

The problem here is not what John said, nor how he said it. The problem is that people who were in the audience can't be mature enough to rise above their own pettiness and recognize that there are separations of person and title going on here.

Are any of us in this forum, absorbing information that we would actually take back with us into our daily working professional lives to leverage in the business decisions we are making? I doubt it, even the server guys here are not going back to their respective companies and then saying "we can't buy Interlagos, that SOB JFAMD lied to the community..."

Get real. Every one of us here in this community walks in here while shedding ourselves of our real-life positions. John was not here to sell us servers, he was not here in any official capacity as an AMD employee, he was here as another member of the community.

And he's braver than most of us. I would tell you my full name except I am a coward, I don't want my real-life mailbox filling up with bullsh!t hate mail and god only knows what else. So I do hide behind my anonymous persona not because I have something to hide from you but because I am trying to shield my family from the asshats out there on this forum.

Do not conflate John letting us know who he is in real life with that of him speaking from a position of professional employment capacity. He wasn't here to sell any of us anything, and it is wrong of us to have read or assumed as much, that's our bad, not his.
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:10 PM   #132
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I think we are mostly dealing with kids who play games on their computer. They are running on nothing but arbitrary emotion and they pick sides in a superficial, made-up battle between two businesses in civil competition with one another, and they make it eerily uncivil with their insignificant bullshit. They are just as likely to go for AMD because they accomplish things with a thousandth the funds and manpower as intel as they are because the colors red or green give a pavlovian response.

Someone inspired to send hate mail over a CPU launch is likely not a real player in this industry. Maybe a floor person at CompUSA, but probably not much more essentially than an emotionally undeveloped fanboy who was unprepared for the incongruence of AMD's interests and his own.

Last edited by alyarb; 10-15-2011 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:12 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonbjerg View Post
Funny, wasn't it you that claimed he was here a a private poster..and not PR for AMD?
This post contradicts your previous statments
I'm going to assume you just genuinely don't get it, the only other assumptions I can make are the kind that are wholly unflattering of your character.

John the AMD employee has non-public knowledge in his head owing to his position within AMD.

AMD tells John "you are allowed to divulge information XYZ, but not A, not B and not C". John assesses XYZ, in light of A, and B, and C, and concludes there is genuine value to come from him sharing XYZ with the public domain. XYZ doesn't contradict A, doesn't invalidate B, is not a lie even in the context of C.

JFAMD the member of ATF has knowledge of XYZ, A, B, and C. But he can only share XYZ, so he does.

Then at a later date John, the AMD employee, becomes aware that C is no longer valid, it is now D...and D invalidates XYZ.

But John the AMD employee is not allowed to publicly divulge D, nor C, and likewise he is not allowed to say anything about XYZ no longer being XYZ.

So JFAMD, the ATF member, has his hands tied behind his back. He knows XYZ is no longer true, but he only knows that because he knows of information that is not allowed to be inserted into the public domain.

So what is a JFAMD to do in this case? If I was JFAMD I'd drink, a lot. Because while he did not get sold down the river by his employer, he's bound by his employer to not do what he needs to do to change the public perception in a timely manner. His fate is baked in.

So he stopped posting, remember the long spell of no posts? And then he posted that Q/A thread on OC'ers where he did what he could to not violate internal requirements (I am conjecturing here) while at the same time he was attempting to deflate the balloon a little because he knew the impending pop was coming. He tried to buffer our expectations.

This is as best I can assume how things kinda went down.

The problem I see here in this forum is that too many people assumed that just because he was an AMD employee that he (1) knew all that there was to know, at every instant in time as things changed, and (2) was allowed to alter the public information trail in real-time as he came to be aware of it in his professional life.
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:17 PM   #134
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@JF-AMD - thank you for making an appearance again.

No one is calling you a liar, the issue some of us have is in the way you talked down at the community. I'm an OCN'er and followed that Bulldozer Blog is Live thread.

Examples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD
How many times do I have to tell you that bulldozer has higher IPC than our current architecture?

Is somebody being paid by intel to continually post these statements?
Here, you're clearly implying that Bulldozer has higher IPC, and then you mock people saying that we are being paid by Intel.

Here's a direct example of you claiming this a week before launch:
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/79...l#post10897321

You also discredited EVERY single leaked benchmark that came out, passed it off as fake, not indicative of final performance, for your selfish self interest. Your words, not mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD
The crazy rumors that run around the internet actually end up with some of the corporate customers. And then I have to debunk them with customers. So there is a selfish self-interest here.
Why are you debunking benchmarks that are TRUE?

Just 5 days ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JF-AMD
Guys, think about this for a minute. You're seeing a bunch of different numbers coming in.

And there is variance in all of those numbers, right?

So obviously they aren't all correct, right? Some probably could be, but you really have no way of knowing what is real and what isn't.

I am not saying that everything is fake, I have no way of knowing. But I am guessing that the amd fanboys are touting the numbers that make it look great and the intel fanboys are touting the numbers that make it look bad.

Until the actual reviews come out, everything is suspect in my mind. High scores and low scores.

I stand by my earlier statement that a lot of the scores will not be representative.

As for parts showing up on the street, that shouldn't be happening.

It's not NDA issue because an NDA is only about the release of information, selling before launch is an embargo issue and resellers are not supposed to sell before launch. So if those are real parts, then someone is breaking the embargo. That isn't supposed to happen.
However, A LOT of the leaked scores ARE representative. All the leaks that you deemed fake were accurate. If you weren't informed on the matter, then you shouldn't have been discrediting things that you had no knowledge of.

You were always adamant that we have to trust AMD for benchmarks, well, how can we, when AMD is misleading people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDwXuAINJk

AMD is claiming that a 980X gets 5.41 in Cinebench. sure in the credits they say it's a 2500K, however, they are STILL misleading people.

And no, I have never sent you a PM, or anything like that, people who have done so need to grow up, but you have to own up to misleading the enthusiast community, whether you meant to or not, you still did it.
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:25 PM   #135
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kudos to john for posting. i root for amd but wouldnt call myself a fanboy. i respect intel's superior ipc. i wish people wouldnt get so mad and upset over things like this but hey, we're all different. hope you stick around john.

question tho

if u even know the answer or are allowed to say.... why not release a 4m/4t fx4XXX? better performance, same die anyway. the fx4100 could be like the i3 2100 but ocable, the fx 4XXX like the i5 2500k then the fx 6100 and fx 8100 with fx 8100 being like i7 2600k. oh well, just would like to know, if not your professional opinion, ur personal opinion, and actually anyone else's too (forum readers/mods)
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Old 10-15-2011, 03:26 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
Have you read Drwho?'s posts much on XS? I love Francois's personality, but if you would make the claim that John has "damaged" AMD in any way then I can only imagine in my wildest dreams what you must think of Francois's posts
How has Francois damaged the reputation of Intel in anyway?

Are you getting confused by seeing rabid AMD fanboys attack Francois any chance they get and assuming it was because of something inappropriate he said?
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Old 10-15-2011, 05:02 PM   #137
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How has Francois damaged the reputation of Intel in anyway?
I never said he had. I said if JFAMD's posts were to be taken that way then he (lol123) probably takes Drwho?'s that way as well, or at least I would assume he must.

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Originally Posted by CHADBOGA View Post
Are you getting confused by seeing rabid AMD fanboys attack Francois any chance they get and assuming it was because of something inappropriate he said?
Those are not AMD fanboys, those are anti-Intel fanboys. And no, I'm hardly confused by them, I pity them.
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:43 PM   #138
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BTW, drwho is even supporting JF:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...t=#post4971235
(This is surely something, which real fanboys could never imagine )
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Old 10-15-2011, 06:46 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by johnnycashh View Post
No one is calling you a liar, the issue some of us have is in the way you talked down at the community. I'm an OCN'er and followed that Bulldozer Blog is Live thread.
Same here, though in the last few months I rarely post there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnycashh View Post
You also discredited EVERY single leaked benchmark that came out, passed it off as fake, not indicative of final performance, for your selfish self interest. Your words, not mine.
And had few of the mods at OCN and quite a number of fans "under his spell". That's why I post here instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnycashh View Post
You were always adamant that we have to trust AMD for benchmarks, well, how can we, when AMD is misleading people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDwXuAINJk

AMD is claiming that a 980X gets 5.41 in Cinebench. sure in the credits they say it's a 2500K, however, they are STILL misleading people.
Quite a number of people already noticed that earlier (before me).

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnycashh View Post
And no, I have never sent you a PM, or anything like that, people who have done so need to grow up, but you have to own up to misleading the enthusiast community, whether you meant to or not, you still did it.
Same here, I've never PM'ed him nor sent hate mails as he had implied earlier. Anything to speak out, I will post it publicly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHADBOGA View Post
How has Francois damaged the reputation of Intel in anyway?

Are you getting confused by seeing rabid AMD fanboys attack Francois any chance they get and assuming it was because of something inappropriate he said?
Francois can sound arrogant at times, but he always try to speaks his heart out on opinions and the truth. Somehow his statements often perceived by certain quarters as "bashing AMD" (and was attacked for it). Also noticed he disappeared (from XS) for a while, when everyone else started siding with JFAMD. Now he's "welcomed" back. Its strange to see how things turned out.
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:20 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
I'm going to assume you just genuinely don't get it, the only other assumptions I can make are the kind that are wholly unflattering of your character.

John the AMD employee has non-public knowledge in his head owing to his position within AMD.

AMD tells John "you are allowed to divulge information XYZ, but not A, not B and not C". John assesses XYZ, in light of A, and B, and C, and concludes there is genuine value to come from him sharing XYZ with the public domain. XYZ doesn't contradict A, doesn't invalidate B, is not a lie even in the context of C.

JFAMD the member of ATF has knowledge of XYZ, A, B, and C. But he can only share XYZ, so he does.

Then at a later date John, the AMD employee, becomes aware that C is no longer valid, it is now D...and D invalidates XYZ.

But John the AMD employee is not allowed to publicly divulge D, nor C, and likewise he is not allowed to say anything about XYZ no longer being XYZ.

So JFAMD, the ATF member, has his hands tied behind his back. He knows XYZ is no longer true, but he only knows that because he knows of information that is not allowed to be inserted into the public domain.

So what is a JFAMD to do in this case? If I was JFAMD I'd drink, a lot. Because while he did not get sold down the river by his employer, he's bound by his employer to not do what he needs to do to change the public perception in a timely manner. His fate is baked in.

So he stopped posting, remember the long spell of no posts? And then he posted that Q/A thread on OC'ers where he did what he could to not violate internal requirements (I am conjecturing here) while at the same time he was attempting to deflate the balloon a little because he knew the impending pop was coming. He tried to buffer our expectations.

This is as best I can assume how things kinda went down.

The problem I see here in this forum is that too many people assumed that just because he was an AMD employee that he (1) knew all that there was to know, at every instant in time as things changed, and (2) was allowed to alter the public information trail in real-time as he came to be aware of it in his professional life.
So what your saying is he could be told misinformation from engineers/PR or whoever or some information thats correct only to some day be wrong?

Then he posts as a AMD representative things that are figured to be facts but since hes lied to or misinformed its ok because he didnt know he was being misinformed ?

I think I'm confused.

SO basically what you are saying is, anything he posts could be from a AMD PR machine and he has no direct knowledge to actually what AMD is doing?
ANd his post while being informing could be a total waste of words because the source could be duping him?

Set me straight...
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:21 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by BlueBlazer View Post
Francois can sound arrogant at times, but he always try to speaks his heart out on opinions and the truth. Somehow his statements often perceived by certain quarters as "bashing AMD" (and was attacked for it). Also noticed he disappeared (from XS) for a while, when everyone else started siding with JFAMD. Now he's "welcomed" back. Its strange to see how things turned out.
In my opinion people with relations with a given company should avoid talking about the competitors products in places like public forums.

Talk about your products, talk about the pros of your products, the features, why they are exciting, etc.

One can do that without having to mention the competition.

Always make me lose some consideration in the person posting.
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:23 PM   #142
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In my opinion people with relations with a given company should avoid talking about the competitors products in places like public forums.
I agree,
ANd if you do talk about it ,make sure you get it right!!
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:35 PM   #143
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he posts as a AMD representative
That's why you're confused. JFAMD doesn't post as an AMD representative, he posts unofficially. He knows a lot more about AMD's products specifically and CPUs generally than most of us, but he doesn't know everything about AMD.

How his detractors confuse his personal engagement with a bunch of nerds as another tech enthusiast - not an official spokesperson for the company AMD - I really don't know.
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:51 PM   #144
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In my opinion people with relations with a given company should avoid talking about the competitors products in places like public forums.

Talk about your products, talk about the pros of your products, the features, why they are exciting, etc.

One can do that without having to mention the competition.
This is not the ideal world. Quite often, its not easy to avoid talking about competitor's products in a public forum. Sometimes the person may observe and point out the weakness or possible issues (which sometimes the other side refuse to acknowledge, tries to refute the information or tries to point out "which is better"). Of course, this always lead to more in depth discussions and debates (as well as some mudslinging).
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Old 10-15-2011, 07:54 PM   #145
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That's why you're confused. JFAMD doesn't post as an AMD representative, he posts unofficially. He knows a lot more about AMD's products specifically and CPUs generally than most of us, but he doesn't know everything about AMD.

How his detractors confuse his personal engagement with a bunch of nerds as another tech enthusiast - not an official spokesperson for the company AMD - I really don't know.
JFAMD doesn't post in an official way but the fact he works for AMD gives his posts a degree of credibility it wouldn't exist otherwise.

If I say the next GeForce will have X cores and will be x% faster no one sane enough will
take my word without backing evidence.

If you on the other hand know that I work (I don't by the way) on Nvidia in position X, my post will have other importance.
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Old 10-15-2011, 08:02 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by BlueBlazer View Post
This is not the ideal world. Quite often, its not easy to avoid talking about competitor's products in a public forum. Sometimes the person may observe and point out the weakness or possible issues (which sometimes the other side refuse to acknowledge, tries to refute the information or tries to point out "which is better"). Of course, this always lead to more in depth discussions and debates (as well as some mudslinging).
One only talks about what one wants to.

And people are free to talk about the competitors products if they want and sometimes the temptation will just be enormous.

I myself wouldn't as a measure of self protection.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:22 PM   #147
ocre
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@JF-AMD - thank you for making an appearance again.

No one is calling you a liar, the issue some of us have is in the way you talked down at the community. I'm an OCN'er and followed that Bulldozer Blog is Live thread.

Examples.


Here, you're clearly implying that Bulldozer has higher IPC, and then you mock people saying that we are being paid by Intel.

Here's a direct example of you claiming this a week before launch:
http://www.overclock.net/amd-cpus/79...l#post10897321

You also discredited EVERY single leaked benchmark that came out, passed it off as fake, not indicative of final performance, for your selfish self interest. Your words, not mine.



Why are you debunking benchmarks that are TRUE?

Just 5 days ago.



However, A LOT of the leaked scores ARE representative. All the leaks that you deemed fake were accurate. If you weren't informed on the matter, then you shouldn't have been discrediting things that you had no knowledge of.

You were always adamant that we have to trust AMD for benchmarks, well, how can we, when AMD is misleading people?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rDwXuAINJk

AMD is claiming that a 980X gets 5.41 in Cinebench. sure in the credits they say it's a 2500K, however, they are STILL misleading people.

And no, I have never sent you a PM, or anything like that, people who have done so need to grow up, but you have to own up to misleading the enthusiast community, whether you meant to or not, you still did it.
Why are most of you overlooking the fact that he kept to his ipc claims all the way up to launch. You have posted showing this. There is no way he didnt know by then, just no way.

He challenged many ppl, he went out of his way to do this to. Its okay to be wrong, i heard some terrible things a yr ago about BD and you dont know how much i wished i was gonna be wrong. I was sure the 1100t was gonna be a far better option for ppl interested in AMD CPUs, this wasnt something i came up with, it was based on information that i heard.

So now lets look at this from another view. AMD has been doing some major changes in management and upper positioning. There is more to this than ppl are informed. Its disorder and chaotic, the way they executed these changes. Its not a good sign my friends.

I believe AMD wants to sell out, and has been for awhile. I have heard this a good long while ago, and not from public sources. a decision made well over a year ago. You can take it with a grain of salt or put the pieces together yourself. Not only was this the case, but once they couldnt find a private buyer by themselves they even went as far as a public announcement to corporations they they may not have been able to get to fast enough through the private chain. AMD was looking to sell and sell fast. We all even heard proof of this but it was slightly disguised..... Directly from Dirk Meyer a yr ago:

"AMD is not for sale, but we are happy to listen to any proposal which is in the interest to our shareholders....."

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2010/10/..._sale_ceo_says


AMD is not for sell but we will be happy to hear offers, you know just for kicks!!!! LOL!
Anyway this all came after they had a few bites and they all went a bust. This was their public outcry saying, is their anyone..... please!

I am sure that AMD was 100% aware of their BD issues well over a year ago. I am very sure of this. AMD wanted to keep this from becoming known, they were already looking unattractive and if this information was known, their would be no way they would find a buyer. I do believe JF may have contributed to keeping opinions looking good for BD. He may have been duped or completely knowing. Either way, It appears his involvement was more than personal love of the community but a useful tool for AMD. look at this statement:

Originally Posted by JF-AMD
"The crazy rumors that run around the internet actually end up with some of the corporate customers. And then I have to debunk them with customers. So there is a selfish self-interest here."

Whats the agenda? Its not a far stretch for me to think some of the corporate opinions they wanted to control were potential buyers for AMD. What most ppl dont want to hear is that AMD is even trying to sell. If Dirks own words doesnt convince ppl then look at all the other signs in their actions. Its not good. AMD is hard to sell, lots of issues and the biggest is intel.

Another terrible fact is AMD just got a billion dollars from intel that wouldve done BD some good. Instead they fired dirk, what was he at odds with the board about? Its not something a stable, level headed company does. He wasnt failing as a CEO, not by far. The decision to oust him was at a very suspicious moment in time. Just a few months after he announced that AMD would like to hear offers. I am sure he was just in they way after that (and eventually the others)

Anyway, its pretty much all i have to say. These are my gathering of thoughts. If you dont agree its okay, dont want to make anyone angry.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:30 PM   #148
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Hello ,Mr Fruehe(JFAMD), Forum member, and Idontcare.

I normally just read-not post but this recent mixture of drama regarding the lackluster Bulldozer performance and who said what and is accountable regarding Mr. Fuehe has me squirming in my seat.

I myself am a EE Instrumentation Engineer salaried for customer training and public sales. From my own background in technical sales and marketing I take issue (respectfully) with misnomers in this ongoing discussion. My aim is not to disparage anyone, I just feel the obfuscation and politics is getting a bit thick. Can't we just be honest and call things for what they are?

John Fruehe (JFAMD) is not joe blow off the street or even a labtech at AMD, he is AMD's Director of Product Marketing who is paid and tasked by Salary by AMD to attend speaking engagement, trade shows and community efforts at getting the AMD word out to the public and technical communities.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUtWXZYn86E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6IuJTisgkw
The community interactions (here on Anand) may be claimed as a "non official" capacity, but given the fact he is a senior marketing position at AMD and the fact He CHOOSE to identify and use his position as an authority to interact (prolifically I might add) with the technical community absolutely puts himself at position off accountability for what he says. It is patently absurd to neglect or downplay that fact. I mean no offense to IDK or Mr Fruehe, but I feel we are all adults and it is appropriate to have the truth and our cards out on the table.

That said, we all thank and recognizes Mr Fruehe as the Voice of AMD as indeed he is senior marketing.. Thank you Mr. Fruehe for you tireless efforts to bring information and education about your AMD products. Sincerely.

It is however a two way street when there are conflicting interests at play here. Lets be honest. If Mr. Fruehe chooses to spend the capital of his High Level AMD position and identity here to divulge and reiterate claims regarding future Performance of upcoming products. "IPC will NOT be Lower" then it is his own future credibility that risk suffering. No doubt, Mr. Fruehe's E-Credibility may take a hit the next time he discusses performance of future products. In his Defense however, he has for the most part remained silent regarding performances and was in not way making specific promises.

I am in Marketing and technical sales myself, and I know if I go into a community and identify myself and speak on behalf of my products I expect fully to back up my claims and be held accountable. In marketing it's in our nature and blood to always be promoting our products for the better. I personally wouldn't go into a community even an "enthusiast" community having identified myself as senior marketing but with the the disclaimer Im off the clock and I don't really speak FOR my company. With Due respect Mr. Fruehe, that just comes across to me as Disingenuous. And if I wrong on that assumption I do apologize.

The other part I take issue with, respectfully, at IDK.. The statement you said explaining how JFAMD knew one thing to be true but then when he found out that wasn't true he couldn't tell us and instead just downplayed the subject. Do you realize how much a conflict of interest that is? I would sincerely hope to JFAMD's credit that he did NOT find out later the IPC claims were false because if so and he did not "could not" tell us that's very unfortunate. If I can tell you truth as I know it, but I find out it's not true but hey... I can't tell you because it's a conflict of interest. That just resonates as an absurd obstruction to the interest of Truth. If the full truth couldn't be disclosed if it was found not true that is MAJOR problem of credibility IMO.
It's not to lay blame at Mr. Fruehe's feet but lets call it for what it is. A falsehood. (definition 1. A state of being untrue) And if even with Mr. Fruehe's senior Marketing position and inside knowledge withheld the truth from us on his own Claim even if it being not his intention or corporate restriction is a severe obstruction of credibility going on here.

But why not just let JFAMD speak for himself? Did he know his predictions regarding performance had changed and did not or could not tell us? It's a fair question and one the community has a right to know.

Last edited by mrbrout; 10-15-2011 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:55 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by ocre View Post
The decision to oust him was at a very suspicious moment in time.
IMO; at that time.. it was definitely suspicious, but not any more after looking at the performance of BD.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:59 PM   #150
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I think Paul makes a fair point here:

http://investorshub.advfn.com/boards...ge_id=68029856

...


The engineers who worked on BD were pretty straight forward in their ISSCC
and Hotchips papers that they were emphasizing frequency
and throughput over IPC. Comments like:

http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/754#3

"Designed for knee-of-the-curve IPC features and low gates/clock"

http://www.anandtech.com/Gallery/Album/754#6

"Throughput advantages for multi-threaded workloads without
significant loss on serial single-threaded workload components"

JF repeatedly publicly denied this implication of those technical
papers written and presented by AMD engineers and insisted up
and down that IPC would increase over the K10 processor family.
Here is a pretty clear example in this thread:

http://aceshardware.freeforums.org/a...t1042-150.html

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