the new version of Real Temp allows custom settings for TJ MAX. Ver 2.70. i am wondering what the latest listing for the TJ MAX by Intel was for the Q6600 G0 stepping? thanks.
PS what are u guys using to monitor temps for the Q6600?
Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
the new version of Real Temp allows custom settings for TJ MAX. Ver 2.70. i am wondering what the latest listing for the TJ MAX by Intel was for the Q6600 G0 stepping? thanks.
PS what are u guys using to monitor temps for the Q6600?
Would the new version of real temps be accurate for reading the temps for a Q6600? I thought real temps was ment for 45nm CPU's?
__________________
Q6600 @ 3Ghz 9x 334 1.171Vcore
Zalman CNPS9500-AT
Asus P5Q Deluxe
Kingston HyperX 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 8500C5
9800GT 512MB
320GB Seagate Barracuda
Vista Business 64-bit
Antec 9 Case
it actually doesn't matter between 45nm and 65nm because with the 2.70 version of realtemp, you can manually set TJ MAX so it should work for both, as long as u KNOW the TJ MAX for your CPU. mine is the Q6600 (G0, 65nm)
the standard junction temperature for plastic packaged commercial
parts is 85 C. that is the temp we used for several military programs
where we used (for example) high pin count plastic packaged FPGA's.
i'm curious what is the maximum recommeded case temperature.
There is a relationship between Tcase and tjmax...here is a post I made on xtreme after tjmax on 45nm was released to use that now known relationship of 45nm for 65nm. We know casing temp of Q6600 is 95C when DTS=0 (tjmax reached), so must be 95C or higher. Casing temp on E8400 is 95C when DTS=0 and tjmax is 100C (per intel) so assuming 5C gradient for most at idle undervolted, underclocked where measurements are made....Q6600 GO is presumed 100C.
__________________
Q6600 Go @ 3.2ghz
A/C Freezer 7 Pro
Asus P5Q-Pro
4gb OCZ Platinum DDR-2 800 (4-4-4-12)
Asus HD 4850 512mb @ stock
500gb Samsung F1
S/B Audigy 2 ZS
All this time I thought my Q6600 B3 was running hot when it maxed out at 70C; with an 80C TJMax, it really was only at 50C.:Q
__________________
ViRGE
Team Anandtech: Assimilating a computer near you! RC5-72 Stats Todd the Wraith: On Fruit Bowls - I hope they prove [to be] as delicious as the farmers who grew them
Thanks kindly... I have a G0, so if I input the TJMax of 90c into a program like Realtemp I'll get an accurate reading, yes? Currently I'm using Speedfan and showing 55c at full load, and I'm worried that's not accurate.
__________________
Conflicts of right and wrong are a sickness of the mind.
Originally posted by: Liet
Thanks kindly... I have a G0, so if I input the TJMax of 90c into a program like Realtemp I'll get an accurate reading, yes?
we did some testing (well rge did all the actual testing, drilling holes into his e8400's.) he placed a thermocouple inside the IHS ontop of the cpu to get a digital temperature of the IHS while he stressed the cpu.
We tried to compare his results to intel's e8400 specs:
sSpec Number:SLAPL
CPU Speed:3 GHz
PCG:06
Bus Speed:1333 MHz
Bus/Core Ratio:9
L2 Cache Size:6 MB
L2 Cache Speed:3 GHz
Package Type:LGA775
Manufacturing Technology:45 nm
Core Stepping:C0
CPUID String:10676h
Thermal Design Power:65W
Thermal Specification:72.4°C
VID Voltage Range:0.85V ? 1.3625V
sSpec Number:SLB9J
CPU Speed:3 GHz
PCG:06
Bus Speed:1333 MHz
Bus/Core Ratio:9
L2 Cache Size:6 MB
L2 Cache Speed:3 GHz
Package Type:LGA775
Manufacturing Technology:45 nm
Core Stepping:E0
CPUID String:1067Ah
Thermal Design Power:65W
Thermal Specification:74.1°C
VID Voltage Range:0.85V ? 1.3625V
specifically the numbers 74.1C & 72.4C are supposed to be the maximums of what his thermocouple was measuring. He saw an actual tcase temp of 57C on this (where intel says limit is ~73C) when the core temperatures were reading 84C. This supports the fact that virutalLarry has been running his core2duos at 91C load for a long time with no heat-related cpu damage. He was never actually reaching the Tcase max (intel thermal specification) for his chip.
This could mean that when people see temps of 75C and get worried, they are actually nowhere close to having a Tcase of 75C, in fact Tcase is more likely closer to 55C - 60C at that point. We will wait for rge to conduct more testing to get some conclusive results. right now it looks promising. IMO what this boils down to is "don't be afraid of higher temps" (within your TJmaximum).
Intel's Thermal Spec: http://processorfinder.intel.c...aspx?label=ThermalSpec
"The thermal specification shown is the maximum case temperature at the maximum Thermal Design Power (TDP) value for that processor. It is measured at the geometric center on the topside of the processor integrated heat spreader. For processors without integrated heat spreaders such as mobile processors, the thermal specification is referred to as the junction temperature (Tj). The maximum junction temperature is defined by an activation of the processor IntelŪ Thermal Monitor. The Intel Thermal Monitor?s automatic mode is used to indicate that the maximum TJ has been reached."
Originally posted by: jaredpace
specifically the numbers 74.1C & 72.4C are supposed to be the maximums of what his thermocouple was measuring. He saw an actual tcase temp of 57C on this (where intel says limit is ~73C) when the core temperatures were reading 84C. This supports the fact that virutalLarry has been running his core2duos at 91C load for a long time with no heat-related cpu damage. He was never actually reaching the Tcase max (intel thermal specification) for his chip.
This could mean that when people see temps of 75C and get worried, they are actually nowhere close to having a Tcase of 75C, in fact Tcase is more likely closer to 55C - 60C at that point. We will wait for rge to conduct more testing to get some conclusive results. right now it looks promising. IMO what this boils down to is "don't be afraid of higher temps" (within your TJmaximum).
Sounds good. One thing to consider, is with the revised TJmax numbers (none given in those charts for the E2xxx series, did Intel forget about them?), I wasn't loading at 91C after all. Assuming that the TJmax for E2xxx M0 is same as E4xxxx (80C), then 9C away from TJmax is only 71C. So I guess I'm not torturing those chips as much as I thought.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubycon
I like to think of knowledge of being the best wealth one can build up. Unlike $ nobody can take it from you when you have acquired it.
yah not too sure about how intel calculates it because, for example: An e6750 G0 stepping has a Tjmax of 80C and a Thermal Specification of 72C. That leaves only 8C for gradient at maximum temp if our E8400 theory is correct and true between wolfdale & conroe.
Here is an E8400 going from idle --> Linpack load. The Tcase is being measured via thermocouple on IHS output to digital Thermometer. Tjunction is being measured via Reatemp software on the screen. Have a look and you can see the gradient!
Originally posted by: jaredpace
yah not too sure about how intel calculates it because, for example: An e6750 G0 stepping has a Tjmax of 80C and a Thermal Specification of 72C. That leaves only 8C for gradient at maximum temp if our E8400 theory is correct and true between wolfdale & conroe.
Oh well, Rge, what is your opinion on this one!?
Intel has stated that most cpus (probably all 65nm) have significantly raised DTS offsets to prevent throttling below tcase, per presentation at IDF, see slides 7 and 13. The chart on slide if drawn to scale could easily represent 15-20C offsets.
Intel has stated the formula for calculating temps is
diplayed temp = tj target-DTS + DTS offset
For E8400, DTS offset = 0 as measured by IR, so temp = Tj target -DTS
For E6850 or E6750 GO, DTS offset = ~20C (constant) measured by IR (Tcase is 95C on E6850 GO when DTS=0)
displayed temp = tj target (80) - DTS + 20C offset
same thing as using tj 100(effective after adding offset) - DTS
Intel clearly states this in IDF presentation, clearly showed charts with large offsets drawn, but did not give offset numbers. But they can be easily approximated with reading tcase measurements at DTS=0. Unless intel can provide offsets, that is what we are left with. But if I use 80C for my E6850 GO tjuntion than at 80C core my IHS is 95C...I would be defying the laws of physics.
What is interesting is if you use the numbers intel gave you for 65nm without offsets when you are running certain loads like linpack core temps that are displayed will approximate actual Tcase (IHS) readings but at idle you will likely see nonsensical temps displayed... ie near or below 0C.
Originally posted by: rge
Intel has stated that most cpus (probably all 65nm) have significantly raised DTS offsets to prevent throttling below tcase, per presentation at IDF, see slides 7 and 13. The chart on slide if drawn to scale could easily represent 15-20C offsets.
Intel has stated the formula for calculating temps is
diplayed temp = tj target-DTS + DTS offset
For E8400, DTS offset = 0 as measured by IR, so temp = Tj target -DTS
For E6850 or E6750 GO, DTS offset = ~20C (constant) measured by IR (Tcase is 95C on E6850 GO when DTS=0)
displayed temp = tj target (80) - DTS + 20C offset
same thing as using tj 100(effective after adding offset) - DTS
Intel clearly states this in IDF presentation, clearly showed charts with large offsets drawn, but did not give offset numbers. But they can be easily approximated with reading tcase measurements at DTS=0.
How... confusing. So, just knowing TJmax for a given CPU is in fact no enough, now we have to find out these "offsets", which essentially raise "effective" TJmax, so perhaps the effective TJmax of my E2xxx is in fact really still 100C? So my load temps really are 91C?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubycon
I like to think of knowledge of being the best wealth one can build up. Unlike $ nobody can take it from you when you have acquired it.
yep...and what is worse, the calibration like intel states vary part to part, so possibly so do the offsets, which is maybe why they were not provided. But since several have tested same cpus and get the same "offsets", you are better using current tjunction than changing. Both real temp and core temp authors have said they are not using the tjunction targets for 65nm...until can find the offsets or measured them in real temp case. Also intel changed term to tj target, probably because it is not tjmax until you know the max offset.
All the E2xxx have 73C tcase 65W just like my E6850...I have no doubt they are 95-100c...I would use 100C.
the devious side of me thinks intel did this on purpose, along with heavy marketing for nehalem with accurate temp sensors that will display in degrees C, so any offsets will be read correctly by intel.
What is the TJ MAX for the Q6600 G0?
