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Old 06-07-2011, 10:50 PM   #51
JSt0rm
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And I see Denmark as a country where people wear silver skates and rely on windmills, but we could both be wrong.
If true, that would be the best country ever.
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Old 06-08-2011, 12:48 PM   #52
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What is so great about saying you believe in nothing?
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:05 PM   #53
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Syrian puzzle is not an easy one, last week Syrian dissidents had a meeting in Antalya, Turkey whereas Essad is under pressure from PM Erdogan to speed up the reforms. Meanwhile France is lobbying in EU and NATO for military intervention like Libya, more than 200 Syrians crossed Turkish borders seeking for protection.

I agree with LL that after so much recent bloodshed it is nearly impossible for a peaceful solution with Essad remaining in power but the next 2 weeks will tell.
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:16 PM   #54
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We are bombing the hell out of Libya but seem to be ignoring Syria. Meanwhile at least 1000 people have been killed by the Syrian regime since the protests started.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/i...ria/index.html

Can someone please explain to me the logic behind helping the people of Libya but not the people of Syria?

Removing the Syrian regime would do so much more for us geopolitically. Libya was pretty much minding their own business and hasn't done much on the world stage in years.

Syria on the other hand is still causing all kinds of problems in the middle east. Their leadership killed the leader of Lebanon. They prop up Hezbollah and provide weapons to them. And after years of silence on their border with Israel they are now paying people to protest and storm the border resulting in the death of a dozen or more people.

So can someone please explain to me why Obama is silent on the whole Syrian thing?
LOL!

Maybe because Syria actually has a military that would put up a fight?
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:17 PM   #55
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Was listening to NPR and regime is taking young children of dissidents and torturing them to death and leaving them on parents front door step as a warning to others. When dealing with scum like that there is no winning other than outside help. Problem with outside help is you have to kill a lot to save a few which creates a whole new set of enemies.

I guarantee some Iraqis or Libyans will remember their parents or children being blown up by American bombs and will spend every waking hour plotting revenge we don't need to add a bunch of Syrians to our enemies list.
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Old 06-08-2011, 02:59 PM   #56
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First of all some things are being done, The French and the British are filing UN resolution that will tend to isolate Assad, Israel is filingf UN compaints against Syria for its monkey business on the Golan heights, The Turks are opening up their borders to Syrian refugees,
and Assad the younger is really realizing in how much deep doo doo he is in.

For Assad's now dead daddy, this was the time honored methods are responding to any questions, but Assad the younger is finally waking up to the fact, its no longer Kosher.

But my guess is, that it will be nations like Turkey who exert the diplomatic and if needed military pressure to convince the Syrian leadership, that the old days are gone.
If Assad himself remains at all, he will no longer be all powerful.
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Old 06-08-2011, 05:22 PM   #57
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Was listening to NPR and regime is taking young children of dissidents and torturing them to death and leaving them on parents front door step as a warning to others. When dealing with scum like that there is no winning other than outside help. Problem with outside help is you have to kill a lot to save a few which creates a whole new set of enemies.

I guarantee some Iraqis or Libyans will remember their parents or children being blown up by American bombs and will spend every waking hour plotting revenge we don't need to add a bunch of Syrians to our enemies list.
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regime is taking young children of dissidents and torturing them to death and leaving them on parents front door step as a warning to others.
Sounds like what the VC and the NVA did as a routine matter.

Seems the liberals and Democrats loved them. What's the problem with the Syrians? Not anti-American enough for Bobo, the Post Turtle? Or maybe he thinks he can facilitate the take over of that country by his buddies, the Muslim Brotherhood?
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Old 06-08-2011, 11:43 PM   #58
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What is so great about saying you believe in nothing?
Is there anything positive by being deluded by superstion?
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:21 AM   #59
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We're not doing anything in Syria because 5 fucking wars at the same time is a little much. We'll stick to 4.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/wo...l.html?_r=1&hp

This fucking shit is getting out of control.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:10 AM   #60
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We're not doing anything in Syria because 5 fucking wars at the same time is a little much. We'll stick to 4.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/09/wo...l.html?_r=1&hp

This fucking shit is getting out of control.
You have seen nothing yet. Wait till they start going fundi. We'll have to use real bombs someday.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:25 AM   #61
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They're not going Fundi, Zebo. If anything they are becoming more and more normal, and trying to distance themselves from Religion.

It's a new generation of Arabs, Persians, and Muslims, that are attacking the old Generation, and demanding Freedom of Religion.

-John

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Old 06-09-2011, 01:36 AM   #62
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They have a huge up-hill battle, but ultimately, the people will win.

-John
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:14 AM   #63
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Libya was among the first to seriously follow (in the sense of civil war) in Egypt's wake and we can't simultaneously intervene in the entire middle east?
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:20 AM   #64
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We don't need to follow. This is Arab on Arab violence.

We do need to support the insurgents. IE. the people.

-John
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Old 06-09-2011, 04:12 AM   #65
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Refugees to Turkey last 24 hours : 1050
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:06 AM   #66
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I've been around longer than you like when I was 10 i remember hama massacre...when you wipe out a whole town has a way of putting damper on revolutionaries. This regime is not above that.
I remember that too, Zebo; the "Hama solution"= wipe out an entire town of 10,000 people to get your point across.
It seems they would like to do so again, just like daddy, with the help of the Iranians.
The Turks need to stop hedging their bets against their good "friends" Assads and company; it seems we are not going to intervene in any substantive sort of way,,,unless the body count reaches a critical mass, or they attack Israel.
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Old 06-10-2011, 02:56 AM   #67
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What Assad did to that one boy is unforgivable. But apparently the father's own cowardice led to him endorsing the mutilation of his own child.

We Americans will never understand the barbarous Arab. If there is no understanding there should be no involvement. But if ProfJohn wants another war, I welcome the quickened bankruptcy of America.
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Old 06-10-2011, 03:59 AM   #68
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LOL!

Maybe because Syria actually has a military that would put up a fight?












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I seriously doubt that the Syrian Military is up to the mtask ....
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:00 AM   #69
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I've been around longer than you like when I was 10 i remember hama massacre...when you wipe out a whole town has a way of putting damper on revolutionaries. This regime is not above that.
Exactly!!
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Old 06-10-2011, 04:23 AM   #70
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It's a new generation of Arabs, Persians, and Muslims, that are attacking the old Generation, and demanding Freedom of Religion.
Simply false. The dictators running Arab countries and their men are the remaining of the Pan-Arabian culture of 50 years ago who was much less focused on religion than today. It's the young generation from which radicalization comes.
Mubarak, Asad (father and son), king Abadallah (and father Hussein), even Arafat and now Abbas are proud Arabs first, Muslims second. Mubarak fought the Muslim Brotherhood, while the young generation in Egypt will vote them in.

This should come as no surprise to anyone as where the financial situation is tough, jobs are nowhere to be found and corruption rules, people often seek radicalization and fascism. Islam checks both boxes very well.
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:29 PM   #71
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You pretty much made my points, Samur. It's a new generation of (better) educated young people, fighting the old generation of established Dictators, Corruption, and Islam.

I guess where we differ is that you think they are fighting to become subjects of Islam, and I think they are fighting to be free from it.

They are educated enough today to understand that Theocracy is not the answer. (and they already know dictatorship and corruption are not the answer.)

But in truth, almost anything may seem better than the current state of affairs.

-John

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Old 06-10-2011, 08:37 PM   #72
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Why should we do anything about Syria?
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:47 PM   #73
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To help out our fellow man.

-John
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:05 PM   #74
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To help out our fellow man.

-John
Really? The US is in a catch-22 position in regards to Syria or any other nation in trouble. If US aids Syria, any further reform might be construed as influence from US and can be invalidated by the nationalists. The new established gov't in Syria would then have less of a legitimacy, whether real or perceived, doesn't matter. If US doesn't aid Syria, it would be seen as hypocritical given how much it values human rights and democracy. I propose US doesn't help Syria because it's not the world's police. The UN is for that purpose. Meanwhile, US has problems of its own like stagnant economy, large deficit, and other problems. Why should any priority be given to problems abroad when our own aren't even fixed?
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:15 PM   #75
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Good post, artikk.

I think this is a crucible time, in all of North Africa, and even extending into the Middle East. The people have become so educated today (Television and Internet) that they have the knowledge with which to attack their oppressors.

In 1972 (or whatever it was) when the U.S. Embassy in Iran was overthrown, THAT was a "religous" revolution. But today, in 2011, these are not Religous Revolutions anymore. This is Arab on Arab revolution (or Dictator, etc. They are all plenty Religious.

In respect to can we/how should we support these revolutions, I honestly think that President Obama has it about straight. He went into Libya, and he may well yet, go into Syria.

-John

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